How to register a new trailer in Texas

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by freespirit

thanks for the list and to be clear...you can get the 30 day temporary tags online to be printed out for the trip back to Texas BEFORE doing any of the other things you listed which can all be done AFTER you get back to Texas?

Yes, you can purchase the 30 day temporary permit at any time before you go pick up your trailer. You can also have the permit take effect on a specific date.

Originally Posted by Mary F

It seems to me, one could get the temporary tag and travel for 4.5 months prior to getting the registration done. HOWEVER, if the Tax Office will collect those documents and give you your plates before you pick up the trailer (through their error or our misunderstanding of the process), I say go for it!

They would, but most tax offices (at least the persons at the counter) will know that an imported trailer needs a VTR-68-A VIN Inspection, and you'd have to have possession of the trailer to accomplish that.

Although they might give you bad information when you call, they are usually back on track once they see an MCO with a Canadian address - mainly because they have to enter it differently in their system vs. a known US dealer. You could try it, I guess, but you'd also need Escape to send you the MCO and Final Bill of Sale.

Lastly, if you have a Gross weight over 4500 lbs, like a 5.0TA or a 21, you can't get the safety inspection prior to possession either - and of course, it's required at the tax office. I think it's a far sounder approach to just buy a temp tag, pick up, then once back in Texas, just go through the steps.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Mary F

Robert's list reflects my experience with the Travis County Tax Office in November, 2015. As I indicated in another thread (where I detailed my experience with getting our trailer registered), the GVWR on our 21 is 4600 lbs. Thus, the safety inspection was required (and was required again this year when we renewed our registration).

About the temporary tags: yes, you purchase them online, as Robert described. I think you can also add time to the tag, if you need more than 30 days.

The application for Title/registration in Texas is supposed to take place within 30 days of your arrival in Texas.

It seems to me, one could get the temporary tag and travel for 4.5 months prior to getting the registration done. HOWEVER, if the Tax Office will collect those documents and give you your plates before you pick up the trailer (through their error or our misunderstanding of the process), I say go for it!

I spent quite some time today talking to a TX DMV clerk and what I asked for was the written rule. She consulted other clerks including elsewhere and finally did come up with the references. According to that in writing, you did not need an inspection again this year unless you think you are towing at least 4500 lbs.

First, she insisted repeatedly, and I have no written verification of this, that all trailers brought into Texas whether from Canada or any state or anywhere else, need to be initially inspected. She said that whether they then need to be inspected by the new-last-year 4500 lbs. rule is another matter. Even if only weighing 3000 lbs. she says the trailer needs an inspection. That requirement would have to be verified by someone else in writing somewhere. I was not asking about that point and was not going to ask her to get that in writing.


On registration by the 4500 lbs. rule, here is the deal:

She repeatedly referred to the fact that they are using the gross weight. Well, to me, that of course makes me think that they mean GVWR. NOT SO. When she or the DMV refer to gross weight, they mean the trailer weight and what you are carrying in it. And that is exactly what she told me several times.

The DMV has little on this because this 4500 lbs. rule comes from the Department of Public Safety. The info the clerk brought up from DPS partly says trailers "Exceeding 4,500 Pounds Actual Gross Weight."

They also gave me the TX DMV info from the Motor Vehicle Registration Manual. Under "Issuing Trailer License Plates" and the "Weight" section, it says, "The registration of a trailer or a semi-trailer should be the empty weight of the vehicle plus the heaviest load to be carried during the registration year."

In discussing this with her, she confirmed that it means exactly what it says and that the owner is responsible for determining how much weight you will be carrying. She says that you need to have it in order if you should be stopped and they weigh you and you exceed the 4500 lbs. Otherwise, if towing less, the inspection is not needed every year.

You can see that they are even doing it year by year so you might think that you will exceed that one year but not another depending upon what you have in the trailer or whether you are even using it.

[float5]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Yes, you can purchase the 30 day temporary permit at any time before you go pick up your trailer. You can also have the permit take effect on a specific date.



They would, but most tax offices (at least the persons at the counter) will know that an imported trailer needs a VTR-68-A VIN Inspection, and you'd have to have possession of the trailer to accomplish that.

Although they might give you bad information when you call, they are usually back on track once they see an MCO with a Canadian address - mainly because they have to enter it differently in their system vs. a known US dealer. You could try it, I guess, but you'd also need Escape to send you the MCO and Final Bill of Sale.

Lastly, if you have a Gross weight over 4500 lbs, like a 5.0TA or a 21, you can't get the safety inspection prior to possession either - and of course, it's required at the tax office. I think it's a far sounder approach to just buy a temp tag, pick up, then once back in Texas, just go through the steps.

The classic 21's are supposedly commonly in the 4200 lbs. range. Don't know about the 5.0TA.

The new 21's are more likely to exceed the 4500 but not necessarily.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by float5

First, she insisted repeatedly, and I have no written verification of this, that all trailers brought into Texas whether from Canada or any state or anywhere else, need to be initially inspected. She said that whether they then need to be inspected by the new-last-year 4500 lbs. rule is another matter. Even if only weighing 3000 lbs. she says they need an inspection.

I won't address the actual gross weight vs GVWR, because as I said, that's very ambiguous here in Texas as to what they use.

I will address her insistence that all trailers brought into Texas need an inspection. That's just flat wrong. All imported trailers brought into Texas need an inspection - unless you're buying it used from a US seller. But, that's not a safety inspection, it's a VIN inspection.

The Dept. of Motor Vehicles websites state in dozens of different places that the trailer only needs a safety inspection if the gross weight exceeds 4500 lbs.

By the way, she's wrong about the 4500 lb rule being "new". It's not. The law has been in effect for a long time. What is relatively new is the requirement to have the safety inspection done prior to getting a registration renewed - (if your trailer requires the inspection because it's gross weight is over 4500 lbs).

Here's a snip from their website. The second snip is from the actual safety inspection statute itself.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by float5

They also gave me the TX DMV info from the Motor Vehicle Registration Manual. Under "Issuing Trailer License Plates" and the "Weight" section, it says, "The registration of a trailer or a semi-trailer should be the empty weight of the vehicle plus the heaviest load to be carried during the registration year."

Good info.
Interesting - they're letting the owner of the trailer define the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating for registration purposes. You could choose 4499 pounds to avoid the need for inspection, and then would be illegal if you ever loaded the trailer more heavily than that. As long as you are confident that either

1. you will never exceed 4499 pounds, or
2. you will never be checked (and therefore caught) when exceeding 4499 pounds

... then this is a reasonable approach.

I don't know if the discrepancy between the vehicles actual GVWR (4500, 5000, or 5500 pounds - depending on model - for tandem-axle "2017" Escapes) and the registered GVW (4499 pounds) would confuse anyone later. Other than when changing registration, it seems unlikely to me that anyone would every look at these numbers again.

There is sort of a precedent for this: some truck rental companies register their trucks at a weight which does not require a commercial or other higher-class driver's license (20,000 pounds at U-Haul in Canada; 26,000 pounds with some other companies), even though the truck itself may be designed and rated to allow a higher weight.

Note that whatever the type of vehicle or choice in registration, the relevant weight is the maximum allowed gross weight, not the empty weight.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

...The second snip is from the actual safety inspection statute itself.

I notice that one says "... 4500 pounds actual gross weight or registered weight...", meaning that you can register for the weight you will be allowed to tow at, but you can't get out of the inspection by picking a registered weight lower than the actual weight of the trailer. That's not a problem for any Escape so far, which will be under 4500 pounds actual empty weight.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I notice that one says "... 4500 pounds actual gross weight or registered weight...", meaning that you can register for the weight you will be allowed to tow at, but you can't get out of the inspection by picking a registered weight lower than the actual weight of the trailer. That's not a problem for any Escape so far, which will be under 4500 pounds actual empty weight.

Yep, good point.

[Mary F]

Originally Posted by float5

I spent quite some time today talking to a TX DMV clerk and what I asked for was the written rule. She consulted other clerks including elsewhere and finally did come up with the references. According to that in writing, you did not need an inspection again this year unless you think you are towing at least 4500 lbs.

First, she insisted repeatedly, and I have no written verification of this, that all trailers brought into Texas whether from Canada or any state or anywhere else, need to be initially inspected. She said that whether they then need to be inspected by the new-last-year 4500 lbs. rule is another matter. Even if only weighing 3000 lbs. she says the trailer needs an inspection. That requirement would have to be verified by someone else in writing somewhere. I was not asking about that point and was not going to ask her to get that in writing.


On registration by the 4500 lbs. rule, here is the deal:

She repeatedly referred to the fact that they are using the gross weight. Well, to me, that of course makes me think that they mean GVWR. NOT SO. When she or the DMV refer to gross weight, they mean the trailer weight and what you are carrying in it. And that is exactly what she told me several times.

The DMV has little on this because this 4500 lbs. rule comes from the Department of Public Safety. The info the clerk brought up from DPS partly says trailers "Exceeding 4,500 Pounds Actual Gross Weight."

They also gave me the TX DMV info from the Motor Vehicle Registration Manual. Under "Issuing Trailer License Plates" and the "Weight" section, it says, "The registration of a trailer or a semi-trailer should be the empty weight of the vehicle plus the heaviest load to be carried during the registration year."

In discussing this with her, she confirmed that it means exactly what it says and that the owner is responsible for determining how much weight you will be carrying. She says that you need to have it in order if you should be stopped and they weigh you and you exceed the 4500 lbs. Otherwise, if towing less, the inspection is not needed every year.

You can see that they are even doing it year by year so you might think that you will exceed that one year but not another depending upon what you have in the trailer or whether you are even using it.

We will look into it next year, Cathi, but what she said does not jive with our experience. I wonder if she was talking about a cargo trailer vs a camping trailer.

Right now, in Texas, when a car registration is due for renewal, the DPS/DMV sends out the notice that you need to get your vehicle safety inspection within 90 days of the expiration of your registration. (They send this notice about 60 days out, so the 90 day figure is moot.) We got the same notification for our travel trailer, and so we did...

For what it's worth, I read pertinent sections of the Texas Motor Vehicle Registration Manual, available online, myself last year. It was difficult to discern the actual procedure, and contributed to my confusion and frustration with the experience. I tried every way I could to convince myself that we would not need an annual safety inspection. The officer who did our VIN verification confirmed that the safety inspection was required. I can't honestly say he specified annually.

[float5]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I won't address the actual gross weight vs GVWR, because as I said, that's very ambiguous here in Texas as to what they use.

I will address her insistence that all trailers brought into Texas need an inspection. That's just flat wrong. All imported trailers brought into Texas need an inspection - unless you're buying it used from a US seller. But, that's not a safety inspection, it's a VIN inspection.

The Dept. of Motor Vehicles websites state in dozens of different places that the trailer only needs a safety inspection if the gross weight exceeds 4500 lbs.

By the way, she's wrong about the 4500 lb rule being "new". It's not. The law has been in effect for a long time. What is relatively new is the requirement to have the safety inspection done prior to getting a registration renewed - (if your trailer requires the inspection because it's gross weight is over 4500 lbs).

Here's a snip from their website. The second snip is from the actual safety inspection statute itself.

GWVR is never used in the language from both places and they make it clear that they are not using that with what they do say.

I did not differentiate between a VIN inspection and safety, and neither did she. Perhaps it is VIN inspection to which she is referring for any trailer brought in. That would make sense.

In any case, the main point for 21' owners is that you can weigh your loaded trailer and see if you need annual safety inspections. New 19's may also.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by float5

I did not differentiate between a VIN inspection and safety, and neither did she. Perhaps it is VIN inspection to which she is referring for any trailer brought in. That would make sense.

Yeah, you're right Cathy, it would make sense, except the VIN inspection only applies to imports, and a trailer purchased in another state in the US isn't an import.

[Mary F]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Yes, you can purchase the 30 day temporary permit at any time before you go pick up your trailer. You can also have the permit take effect on a specific date.



They would, but most tax offices (at least the persons at the counter) will know that an imported trailer needs a VTR-68-A VIN Inspection, and you'd have to have possession of the trailer to accomplish that.

Although they might give you bad information when you call, they are usually back on track once they see an MCO with a Canadian address - mainly because they have to enter it differently in their system vs. a known US dealer. You could try it, I guess, but you'd also need Escape to send you the MCO and Final Bill of Sale.

Lastly, if you have a Gross weight over 4500 lbs, like a 5.0TA or a 21, you can't get the safety inspection prior to possession either - and of course, it's required at the tax office. I think it's a far sounder approach to just buy a temp tag, pick up, then once back in Texas, just go through the steps.

The nice young man who did our paperwork at Travis County Tax Office (November 2015) had a notebook he referred to, to ensure he got everything correct. He also checked with his supervisor a couple of times. Even so, he was actually not interested in our VTR-68A (VIN verification). I made him take it anyway!

I totally agree it's not likely one can get Texas plates from the Travis County Tax Office ahead of taking possession of the trailer - and it's doubtful the procedure has changed since November 2015, as the Texas Legislature hasn't met since 2014 - but it's such a convoluted process (how many foreign born trailers does Travis County register in a year?) nothing would surprise me.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Mary F

We will look into it next year, Cathi, but what she said does not jive with our experience. I wonder if she was talking about a cargo trailer vs a camping trailer.

Right now, in Texas, when a car registration is due for renewal, the DPS/DMV sends out the notice that you need to get your vehicle safety inspection within 90 days of the expiration of your registration. (They send this notice about 60 days out, so the 90 day figure is moot.) We got the same notification for our travel trailer, and so we did...

For what it's worth, I read pertinent sections of the Texas Motor Vehicle Registration Manual, available online, myself last year. It was difficult to discern the actual procedure, and contributed to my confusion and frustration with the experience. I tried every way I could to convince myself that we would not need an annual safety inspection. The officer who did our VIN verification confirmed that the safety inspection was required. I can't honestly say he specified annually.

She knew it was a travel trailer. The quotes are from the DPS and DMV. I have provided the written requirements and they were given for all trailers. The Manual is online, hundreds of pages maybe? I will look for it then. Unless someone looks at the written requirements, as she and others and I just did, they may not know that a safety inspection is not required. Have you weighed your loaded Escape to know if it is up to 4500?

It was very clear from her and others that they ask you, the owner, how much the trailer weighs loaded, not the GVWR. We are mistakenly using that because that is what we are used to seeing. They are not using it. They clearly are asking for actual weight. And the owner is responsible for knowing the highest weight that will be towed in that given year. That is what she and it said, anyway.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Good info.
Interesting - they're letting the owner of the trailer define the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating for registration purposes. You could choose 4499 pounds to avoid the need for inspection, and then would be illegal if you ever loaded the trailer more heavily than that. As long as you are confident that either

1. you will never exceed 4499 pounds, or
2. you will never be checked (and therefore caught) when exceeding 4499 pounds

... then this is a reasonable approach.

I don't know if the discrepancy between the vehicles actual GVWR (4500, 5000, or 5500 pounds - depending on model - for tandem-axle "2017" Escapes) and the registered GVW (4499 pounds) would confuse anyone later. Other than when changing registration, it seems unlikely to me that anyone would every look at these numbers again.

There is sort of a precedent for this: some truck rental companies register their trucks at a weight which does not require a commercial or other higher-class driver's license (20,000 pounds at U-Haul in Canada; 26,000 pounds with some other companies), even though the truck itself may be designed and rated to allow a higher weight.

Note that whatever the type of vehicle or choice in registration, the relevant weight is the maximum allowed gross weight, not the empty weight.

The companies choosing their own weight according to business that you point out here, well, that is apparently where their requirements are coming from. I have no way of knowing if there is more in the manual or DPS info that specifies travel trailers but what I saw said it was for all trailers. With a manual with hundreds of pages, if it is that big, no telling what one can find in there. All I know is what they gave me after determining that it was a travel trailer and the info basically says that owners say what weight they are towing.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I notice that one says "... 4500 pounds actual gross weight or registered weight...", meaning that you can register for the weight you will be allowed to tow at, but you can't get out of the inspection by picking a registered weight lower than the actual weight of the trailer. That's not a problem for any Escape so far, which will be under 4500 pounds actual empty weight.

That is exactly how I read it so I left off the "registered weight" because it is not a problem with any Escape. That leaves "actual gross weight."

[float5]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Yeah, you're right Cathy, it would make sense, except the VIN inspection only applies to imports, and a trailer purchased in another state in the US isn't an import.

I will have to see about that again. I believe that I missed that she was referring to a VIN inspection because she did not use those words. I was mostly asking about the 4500 lbs. rule and when she said that all trailers needed an inspection, she probably made reference to a VIN inspection without exactly saying "VIN inspection" and I didn't realize the change to that.

On your point about imports only though, she very clearly said that all trailers coming in from other states needed an initial inspection. I gave her the situation of owning a trailer already in another state as we do. So now I wonder what she was talking about. She seemed to know what she was doing.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by float5

In any case, the main point for 21' owners is that you can weigh your loaded trailer and see if you need annual safety inspections. New 19's may also.

Or, don't weigh anything, register (any model) for 4499 pounds (or maybe 4400 pounds to look less suspicious), and be happy... regardless of the actual empty weight, weight as towed, or true GVWR.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by float5

That is exactly how I read it so I left off the "registered weight" because it is not a problem with any Escape. That leaves "actual gross weight."

I'd say the opposite: the actual empty weight will be under 4500 pounds, so the only concerns are what you load it to (which could be anything, and the DMV doesn't check, so even that doesn't matter) and what you register it for (the "registered weight"). You must pick the weight to register, and that's all that matters for the licensing process.

[ThomasG]

Back to my original issue of Texas registration for a new Escape trailer for 4.5 months before entering Texas for the first time.

Originally Posted by rbryan4

First, you do not need a VTR-270, or a pencil tracing or photo of the VIN. That's a form that allows you to self certify the VIN when you're exempt from inspection or the vehicle won't be operated on Texas roads. That is not the case here.

FYI, the VTR-270 also says it can also be used for a vehicle "located out of state". I'm not sure of the definition of "located".

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Your trailer is imported. Therefore, you need the VIN inspected by a member of the Texas Auto Theft Task Force, who will fill out and sign a VTR68-A. The completed VTR68-A is the form you take (along with the ones you received from Escape like the MCOO) to the tax office to get your tags.

I sent email back to Travis County and they said I would need the VTR68-A (as stated on the web page you referenced). The also said a purchase order or bill of sale is needed (they forgot that in the first email, but we all knew that). They didn't address my issue of getting the trailer registered so I could travel for 4.5 months before first entering Texas. I'll call them on the phone Monday morning.

It seems my other option is a 30-day temporary permit. The website (TxDMV.GOV - Temporary Permits) says I can only get three 30-day permits per vehicle, so that isn't a solution to my problem. Perhaps I'll get 30-day permits for when I pickup the trailer, when I plan on being in Canada, and a when I return to Texas. In between the permits I'll cross my fingers.

Originally Posted by Mary F

It seems to me, one could get the temporary tag and travel for 4.5 months prior to getting the registration done. HOWEVER, if the Tax Office will collect those documents and give you your plates before you pick up the trailer (through their error or our misunderstanding of the process), I say go for it!

Mary, I like your thinking. Perhaps I'll just take the docs to the county before leaving to picking up my trailer and see if they will register it using a VTR-270 form and a photo of the VIN. If they say I need the VIN inspected, I'll just act ignorant (easy for me to do) and get a temporary permit.

BTW, interesting discussion on GVWR. I wasn't expecting that.

[rbryan4]

Each and every time this topic comes up on the forum, the same issue arises: the government officials don't seem to know the law, or they provide incorrect information. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I still am. If I provided erroneous information to one of my clients, I would not have a job for very long.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Or, don't weigh anything, register (any model) for 4499 pounds (or maybe 4400 pounds to look less suspicious), and be happy... regardless of the actual empty weight, weight as towed, or true GVWR.

Nobody is trying to get out of registering correctly that I have seen. In the case of classic 21's and new 19's and 21's as well as 5.0TA's, the weight is likely to be close to the 4500 lbs. that Texas happens to be using as to whether safety inspections are required.

One way that any owners can know if they must have such inspections is to go to a scale and get their loaded weight. (At least at any one time with what they expect to normally carry.) In addition, there is the question of filling the fresh tank for hundreds more pounds, and any weight in the other tanks. So it needs to be looked at by quite a few Texas owners unless perhaps they decide to just do annual inspections, saying that they are at the GVWR.