Inverter, battery, or charger problem?

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Bob- your batteries are old relatively. To me it's like tires: do you want to run them to the advertised life or?

Ross what would you consider time to change the 6 volts ? Pat

[John in Santa Cruz]

FWIW, we use our gas oven to toast.... but then we're more often toasting rolls or baguettes than we are toasting sliced bread.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Ross what would you consider time to change the 6 volts ? Pat

All am saying is if you are getting warning signs that the batteries are not performing well and if they are 5 years old then why wait until you are on the road to have to replace them.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Ross what would you consider time to change the 6 volts ? Pat

Some of your question can be answered by your earlier observations:
"Start toaster, 86A, 11.33v at batteries, 11.09 at the inverter".
Since the voltage drop (11.33-11.09=0.24) is not too bad for 86 amps, then the guilty party is the batteries.

It is a subjective answer. How long have you lived with the low battery warning beep? Can you live with it for another camping season? Can you skip the morning toast when boondocking?

86 amps drain is on the high side for a 5 year old battery. Yes, you could - perhaps - get another season, or even two out of it ("them" for 2-6v). But if camping for you means being 600 miles from a Walmart then you might want to replace earlier rather than later. Don't feel bad - 5 years is respectable. Many (myself included) have killed big batteries sooner than that.

--
Alan

[Brian B-P]

Now that Bob's situation is basically sorted out... back to the original issue:

Originally Posted by thumper-tx

The readout on the inverter control shows that all the voltage in the batteries is getting to the inverter at the start.

Yes, it will (even with tiny wires and poor connections)... but have you checked what happens under heavy load? Is the drop in voltage all at the battery, or is there a significant loss of voltage between the battery and the inverter?

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

Some of your question can be answered by your earlier observations:
"Start toaster, 86A, 11.33v at batteries, 11.09 at the inverter".
Since the voltage drop (11.33-11.09=0.24) is not too bad for 86 amps, then the guilty party is the batteries.

It is a subjective answer. How long have you lived with the low battery warning beep? Can you live with it for another camping season? Can you skip the morning toast when boondocking?

86 amps drain is on the high side for a 5 year old battery. Yes, you could - perhaps - get another season, or even two out of it ("them" for 2-6v). But if camping for you means being 600 miles from a Walmart then you might want to replace earlier rather than later. Don't feel bad - 5 years is respectable. Many (myself included) have killed big batteries sooner than that.

--
Alan

Hi Alan not sure if you were answering me , but we don't have a installed inverter , if boondocking use minimal power . We have a portable I think 400 but only used it once years ago . The most recent boondocking was at Quartsite and just used the installed 3 60 watt panels I had installed on roof . Had the generator and also another folding solar 80 watt , but never needed them . The heater was running a lot and took showers every night . So the batteries are going now 6 plus years . Everyday at Quartsite the batteries were up to 100%
By 12-1 even with cloud cover . With early sun they were up by 11-12 . Have battery monitor and the charger is a Victron MPPT . Maybe more life in them ? Pat

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Rossue

All am saying is if you are getting warning signs that the batteries are not performing well and if they are 5 years old then why wait until you are on the road to have to replace them.

Hi Ross I responded to Alan in 26 . Pat

[paulk]

For high current draws, AGM batteries would be a better choice. They have a much lower internal resistance compared to flooded. Most people using AGMs are doing it for this reason, although there are other benefits as well.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Hi Alan not sure if you were answering me ...

Clearly I did not scroll back enough, and managed to answer the wrong post.

But, and there is always a but: One fairly common sign of a weakening battery is a overly quick recharge. When combined with a disappointingly fast drop - say down to 12.0 volts overnight with light to moderate use (no inverters pulling 80 amps), odds are good that a new battery is in your future. While a fast "down and up" is one symptom of battery age, it is not the only one, so don't ignore other symptoms.

--
Alan

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

Clearly I did not scroll back enough, and managed to answer the wrong post.

But, and there is always a but: One fairly common sign of a weakening battery is a overly quick recharge. When combined with a disappointingly fast drop - say down to 12.0 volts overnight with light to moderate use (no inverters pulling 80 amps), odds are good that a new battery is in your future. While a fast "down and up" is one symptom of battery age, it is not the only one, so don't ignore other symptoms.

--
Alan

No problem Alan . I think after heater and showers we were down to 12.3 or 12.4 then the solar recharged as I said . What is your option of Costco 6 volt ? They are a little bit less in amps then the true interstates ( the green ones ) however have been buying Costco batteries for vehicles for years with no problem , the last a replacement for our Forester . Pat

[thumper-tx]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Now that Bob's situation is basically sorted out... back to the original issue:


Yes, it will (even with tiny wires and poor connections)... but have you checked what happens under heavy load? Is the drop in voltage all at the battery, or is there a significant loss of voltage between the battery and the inverter?

It appears that voltage drops very rapidly at the battery and at the inverter. When the trailer was new, running the microwave off of the inverter for 3+ minutes was no big deal with battery voltage going to about 11.8-12.0. Now the same load drops battery voltage to the point the inverter shuts down within 15-20 seconds.

I am going to check the gauge of the battery to inverter wiring tomorrow and do my own load test. [I bought a load tester.]

[John in Santa Cruz]

if the voltage is dropping at the battery under heavy load, the wiring isn't your problem, your batteries are getting old.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

...however have been buying Costco batteries for vehicles for years with no problem ...

You are the Costco battery expert, I could only speculate at best. Go with what you are comfortable with.

Many (7) battery years ago I took a chance with a Sears branded Odossey AGM battery for my trolling motor. It worked well so I bought 2 for the Escape. Unfortunately Sears stopped reselling them and I know of no other discounter for that brand.

--
Alan

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by thumper-tx

It appears that voltage drops very rapidly at the battery and at the inverter. When the trailer was new, running the microwave off of the inverter for 3+ minutes was no big deal with battery voltage going to about 11.8-12.0. Now the same load drops battery voltage to the point the inverter shuts down within 15-20 seconds.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

if the voltage is dropping at the battery under heavy load, the wiring isn't your problem, your batteries are getting old.

Yes, if it is dropping a lot at the battery, and the voltage at the inverter isn't much lower than at the battery, it's a battery issue rather than a wiring issue.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

You are the Costco battery expert, I could only speculate at best. Go with what you are comfortable with.

Many (7) battery years ago I took a chance with a Sears branded Odossey AGM battery for my trolling motor. It worked well so I bought 2 for the Escape. Unfortunately Sears stopped reselling them and I know of no other discounter for that brand.

--
Alan

Thanks Alan . I just will keep my eye on them and go with either at the time . Pat

[thumper-tx]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

if the voltage is dropping at the battery under heavy load, the wiring isn't your problem, your batteries are getting old.

Batteries are about 18 months old, and have been kept plugged into shore power.

[thumper-tx]

I load tested each 6v battery individually and together as a 12V system and load test show batteries are good. The load tester is a Schumacher Model BT-100. I am not sure what gauge the inverter to battery cables are but they are are only about 18" long.


It would seem that I am no closer to a solution.

[thumper-tx]

I checked the specifications on that load tester and it applies a 50 amp load to a 6V battery and a 100 amp load to a 12v battery.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by thumper-tx

It appears that voltage drops very rapidly at the battery and at the inverter. When the trailer was new, running the microwave off of the inverter for 3+ minutes was no big deal with battery voltage going to about 11.8-12.0. Now the same load drops battery voltage to the point the inverter shuts down within 15-20 seconds.

I am going to check the gauge of the battery to inverter wiring tomorrow and do my own load test. [I bought a load tester.]

Just curious - when you tested the voltage at the battery, did you connect the voltmeter to the battery terminals or the lugs attached to the battery terminals?

THe reason I ask is that I had battery cables from the factory that showed voltage loss when I tested at the battery lugs. After cutting off the Escape crimped lugs and crimping new Ancor lugs on with a hydraulic crimper - my voltage loss problem went away.

Look at the pic below. Half the triangle shaped crimped lugs were garbage and had to be replaced. I might have been able to fix them by cleaning up the contact surfaces but the other problem was they were showing an even higher voltage loss on the other end due the poorly crimped connection to the battery cables.

a few bucks saved buying cheap lugs doesn't pay off in the long run.

[padlin]

Sure sounds similar to the problem I experience except your batteries are only 18 months old compared to my 5 years.

From one of the Battery University pages referenced earlier in the thread.

"Sulfation and grid corrosion are the main contributors to the rise of the internal resistance with lead acid. Temperature also affects the resistance;"

I read on one of the pages where sulfation can occur if you do NOT do deep enough discharge cycles, that would be my case.

Do you have any way to run an equalization cycle on your batteries? might help. I'm going to try it before I get new batteries. Hopefully won't see the voltage drop as much.

No edit: TDF brings up another item for me to check. Didn't look for loss between the battery and the lugs.