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Old 02-27-2018, 10:57 PM   #21
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Old 02-27-2018, 11:03 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by citabria90 View Post
Hmmm . . . I'm not sure.
Perhaps the OP should do a detailed investigation of his cabling setup (although I think he did originally state that all was working normally at the beginning). If that's the case, then something has changed (or failed).

I'm skeptical of the battery (BTW, one battery or two in series) failure, mostly because it seems to me to not be a common occurrence

OP – what is the ratine of your inverter, and what size cables do you have between the inverter and the battery?

So many variables.

Chuck
Well, no. In reviewing OP's original posts, he didn't say that it was originally working correctly. My mistake.

Chuck
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:21 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by citabria90 View Post
Hmmm . . . I'm not sure.
Perhaps the OP should do a detailed investigation of his cabling setup (although I think he did originally state that all was working normally at the beginning). If that's the case, then something has changed (or failed).

I'm skeptical of the battery (BTW, one battery or two in series) failure, mostly because it seems to me to not be a common occurrence

OP – what is the ratine of your inverter, and what size cables do you have between the inverter and the battery?

So many variables.

Chuck
I have not checked wire size because the inverter was factory installed and if it was a wire size issue, many other 21's would have identical issues.
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:24 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post
That wouldn't work for me. When the microwave is on my battery display drops down to just under 12 volts. As soon as the load is off they bounce right back up to where they were or .1 volt lower.

Ron
This is exactly how my batteries responded to inverter / microwave use for the previous 1 1/2 years. My present situation is a new development.
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Old 02-28-2018, 03:07 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by thumper-tx View Post
This is exactly how my batteries responded to inverter / microwave use for the previous 1 1/2 years. My present situation is a new development.
Mine does the same thing as yours. I bought my trailer used but it was finished in Dec of 2014 and as far as I know original batteries. I am interested in the Progressive converter mod so that when I get new 6v batteries I can desulfonate them w/a 4 stage charger instead of the stock which does not do that. I suspect the batteries but will be checking connections as well. BTW I am also having problems w/my Maxxfan and I have seen that the board is susceptible to high or low voltage as well which a better converter would do a better job of filtering.
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Old 02-28-2018, 04:36 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by citabria90 View Post
In reviewing OP's original posts, he didn't say that it was originally working correctly.
It looks like he did provide that clarification:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper-tx View Post
Yes, the inverter ran the microwave without issue for the first 18 months.
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Originally Posted by thumper-tx View Post
This is exactly how my batteries responded to inverter / microwave use for the previous 1 1/2 years. My present situation is a new development.
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Old 02-28-2018, 04:38 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by thumper-tx View Post
I have not checked wire size because the inverter was factory installed and if it was a wire size issue, many other 21's would have identical issues.
Also, if it were only a problem with inadequate wire gauge, the voltage at the inverter input would drop severely during heavy current draw, but the voltage at the battery would not.
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Old 02-28-2018, 04:44 PM   #28
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I hate to suggest this, since I have an appreciation for how difficult it would be to remove the batteries, but it sounds like a load test of the batteries would be appropriate. A simple load tester is just a big resistor with a voltmeter, and can be taken to the batteries. Maybe the trailer can be taken to a battery store and they can come out to test, or a mobile tech might have a tester, or you can just buy a tester.

I have one of these: 100A Battery Load Tester
but fortunately I have not had a battery fail and need testing since I bought the tester. All this type of tool really does is puts a big load (low resistance) across the battery to draw a lot of current, and shows the resulting drop in voltage. To really make sense of the result from using one of these, it would be good to have tested a known good battery of the same size and type for comparison.
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Old 02-28-2018, 04:48 PM   #29
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I have little to offer, other than to ask if over-use of the microwave has repeatedly drawn the new batteries down below 50 per cent, resulting in a fresh set of bad cells.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:46 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I hate to suggest this, since I have an appreciation for how difficult it would be to remove the batteries, but it sounds like a load test of the batteries would be appropriate. A simple load tester is just a big resistor with a voltmeter, and can be taken to the batteries. Maybe the trailer can be taken to a battery store and they can come out to test, or a mobile tech might have a tester, or you can just buy a tester.

I have one of these: 100A Battery Load Tester
but fortunately I have not had a battery fail and need testing since I bought the tester. All this type of tool really does is puts a big load (low resistance) across the battery to draw a lot of current, and shows the resulting drop in voltage. To really make sense of the result from using one of these, it would be good to have tested a known good battery of the same size and type for comparison.
This is what I think I need to do next and I will remove the batteries next week and take them to be load tested. If they test out good it seems likely that the inverter is the issue.
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:03 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by thumper-tx View Post
This is what I think I need to do next and I will remove the batteries next week and take them to be load tested. If they test out good it seems likely that the inverter is the issue.
Please let us know what you find out, we might learn something useful. Good luck with it,

Cheers,

Allan Edie
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:08 PM   #32
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Before fall storage I charge fully and they flip the battery cutoff switch. During the winter I plug into shore power about every 6 weeks for a half day and top off the charge. The first time the error started was during a stop at the beginning of a 8 day trip. I tried it again after returning [and the trailed had been plugged in and charging] for 8 nights.

I suspect chronic undercharging could be damaging your batteries. In best case scenario, if you rely on the stock WFCO, it will never fully charge your batteries, it will never achieve the manufacturer’s recommended charging voltages, nor will it periodically equalize them to maintain good battery health. You are consigning your batteries to an abbreviated lifespan with that hardware. And that’s if you’re plugged in, trickle charging, most of the time. Based on your stated charging regimen I question how much juice you’re even getting in there when you do charge. Long term in this fashion could easily lead to damaged batteries with reduced capacity.

Have you checked your battery cells with a hygrometer?
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:18 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I hate to suggest this, since I have an appreciation for how difficult it would be to remove the batteries, but it sounds like a load test of the batteries would be appropriate. A simple load tester is just a big resistor with a voltmeter, and can be taken to the batteries. Maybe the trailer can be taken to a battery store and they can come out to test, or a mobile tech might have a tester, or you can just buy a tester.

I have one of these: 100A Battery Load Tester
but fortunately I have not had a battery fail and need testing since I bought the tester. All this type of tool really does is puts a big load (low resistance) across the battery to draw a lot of current, and shows the resulting drop in voltage. To really make sense of the result from using one of these, it would be good to have tested a known good battery of the same size and type for comparison.
I would not be without my NOCO load tester. Great piece of equipment and less than $30.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00316K61S..._Ac3LAb8ZKZAF4
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:31 PM   #34
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I would not be without my NOCO load tester. Great piece of equipment and less than $30.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00316K61S..._Ac3LAb8ZKZAF4
That's amusing - the same tester (other than the NOCO label), probably out of the same factory in China, for within 4% of the same price.
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:41 PM   #35
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I suspect chronic undercharging could be damaging your batteries. ....Have you checked your battery cells with a hygrometer?
Agree; re-read the thread to see if there is solar and it doesnt appear so. Our first Escape had dual six volt with no solar and it is very clear the advantage of having the solar charge controller do the work. When you run your batteries below 50% it takes a looong time for the WFCO to get them charged up, whereas the solar is not only charging all the time(variably of course given conditions) but does it with much better efficiency.
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:43 PM   #36
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That's amusing - the same tester (other than the NOCO label), probably out of the same factory in China, for within 4% of the same price.
Well in this case, not so. The NOCO BTE 181 is designed and made in the USA. NOCO is an American company that's been around since 1914. They probably make the same tester for other companies as well, like Princess Auto. Their most popular products are the NOCO Genius battery chargers.
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:31 PM   #37
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Well in this case, not so. The NOCO BTE 181 is designed and made in the USA. NOCO is an American company that's been around since 1914. They probably make the same tester for other companies as well. Their most popular products are the NOCO Genius battery chargers.
Well, that would probably be the first Princess Auto PowerFist item made in the U.S.! I'll have to check the label sometime. You may want to check the label on the NOCO, too - one Amazon.com comment includes "Great product considering it comes from Chin@". I can't find the tester on the NOCO website (which is in the country domain for Colombia, so they can have the domain name "no.co", since noco.com was already taken), so they likely either don't make it any more, or never made it (just let someone use their brand name).

The PowerFist may be a copy of the NOCO, which Amazon.ca sells for CA$55.12. Given that it's just a resistor, a voltmeter, and two cables with clamps, I'm not sure how much it matters.
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:40 PM   #38
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The PowerFist may be a copy of the NOCO, which Amazon.ca sells for CA$55.12. Given that it's just a resistor, a voltmeter, and two cables with clamps, I'm not sure how much it matters.
You're right, probably doesn't matter, but here's what NOCO says about it, along with their company blurb:

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Old 03-01-2018, 07:53 AM   #39
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For those of us who are electronic Luddites, I'm still not sure what this means for us with boots on the campsite. Does this mean for example that, if we are connected to shore power, and we turn on the transfer switch, we fry our inverter? The same when we're connected to a generator?
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Old 03-01-2018, 07:58 AM   #40
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For those of us who are electronic Luddites, I'm still not sure what this means for us with boots on the campsite. Does this mean for example that, if we are connected to shore power, and we turn on the transfer switch, we fry our inverter? The same when we're connected to a generator?
I think you meant to post to this thread:
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f3...tml#post238654
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