Is a special charger needed for 6v lifeline AGMs

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Originally Posted by PleinAirCedar

Hi All, I went to the auto part store and they checked out both the 6V batteries and said they both read "Good Battery". Battery #1 was 6.3V and battery #2 was 6.4V. The fuse is good, too. I mentioned that the cable gave off a tiny spark at first when I was trying to connect them last week. I had turned off the main power switch inside the 17B in the fall and had not turned it on yet. The auto part store worker said that something was still on, perhaps the solar panel.

So before I put them back on the trailer and hook those batteries up, I need to find out how to make sure the solar panel is not trying to connect to the batteries. And of course make sure all the connections are super clean and shiny.

Any one hear got that info or had that experience before? Thanks a ton, guys.

even with the switch off the solar and break away will still be connected to the battery.this may be where the spark came from. This is the way you want it. If you have a inverter you will get a spark also as it charges the capacitors. The solar controller will handle charging.(thats it job) I not sure if you have a cover But if not leaving them installed over winter with solar charging would be fine. you would have to keep the snow off. In my casita I would just use a battery tender in the winter as i had it covered and battery was to large to remove in winter. That worked great for me.

[PleinAirCedar]

Hi Vermilye/Jon,
Holy Cow!!! No wonder there was that spark. Do you think connecting the batteries after the sun has set is ok, too? That is freaking me out that the folks at Escape forgot to drill it into my head to disconnect the batteries and make sure the solar panels were covered. I don't remember the person giving us the orientation saying anything about that. I don't have anything about that in my notes that I took and transcribed to a word processing file. And I didn't see anything about that in the part on page 61 of my Escape owners pdf where it talks about taking out the batteries.
I am freaked out and also very glad I didn't give myself a big shock, literally. Thanks so much for helping me out.

Again, Yikes!

[PleinAirCedar]

Thanks NYHB, I do cover the 17B in the winter with a Classic Accessories cover. Which btw, fell apart in April after only 2 winters' use. They did send me a replacement without a question. I was told during our orientation to remove the batteries as part of winterization. We live in western Colorado where snow fall can be a very lot of very little and it gets around 0° only so often but more realistically, in the low teens, with occasional single digits. The batteries stay in the insulated garage, right up close to the wall to the house. I've never had items freeze in the garage yet. My husband likes to store his beer there as well as sodas. They get cold but not frozen. So the batteries are happy there during the winter.

It sure would be easier to leave them in the 17B than taking them out but I never know what the winter will be like. Big snow or big drought?
How does the UV rays affect the fiberglass and other components of the 17B vs. covering the trailer? I may post this as a new thread, too.
Thanks a bunch for your swift reply.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by PleinAirCedar

...
I am freaked out and also very glad I didn't give myself a big shock, literally. Thanks so much for helping me out.

Again, Yikes!

Hello PAC;
You may be overthinking the issue. You personally have nothing to worry from 12V. You would be unlikely to feel a thing from putting your hand across the terminals of a 12V battery - unless your hand was wet with salt water - which I can speak from personal experience. Just a tingle, no more.

And as Jon has mentioned, a small spark could come from the solar system doing its thing or anything on the 12V system that is not disconnected. The input to an inverter is just one example.

What Jon was pointing out was that disconnecting ( not connecting ) the batteries might possibly harm the solar charger when the sun is shining. A blanket on the panel or any shade will solve that problem for the duration that the batteries are disconnected.

Originally Posted by PleinAirCedar

...
We live in western Colorado where snow fall can be a very lot of very little and it gets around 0° only so often but more realistically, in the low teens, with occasional single digits
...

0° F is not a terribly cold temperature for a 12V lead-acid battery (including AGMs). A battery that is 50% (half charged) can withstand 0° F. A fully charged battery can withstand temperatures that Colorado has never experienced.

Keeping a battery in a garage is certainly a popular and realistic option. But keeping the battery in the trailer with a working solar system is also a realistic option. Your choice. And as long as you are certain that the primary DC switch is in the "off" position then you don't have to worry about a few weeks of snow cover. Another check you can do is inspect the solar charger voltage readings. Anything over 12.8 indicates a full battery (could go as high as 13.8 in bright sunlight.)

I'm of the "less work is better" persuasion so I leave the batteries installed 365 days. And Denver has its share of -10°F nights. When I prepare for winter I turn on a few lights and flip the DC switch to off. If the lights go out I feel satisfied there is no drain on the battery.

--
Alan

[PleinAirCedar]

Alan,
Thanks for the info. I like the idea of not having to take out the batteries and move them for the winter. I am going to do that this coming winter. I will occasionally check the solar charger every once in a while during the winter and make sure the V's are looking appropriate, say 12.0 or higher. I think I will also plug in the in the shore power if the panels are buried in snow for a while.

I appreciate all the help given.
Sincerely,
Cedar

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by PleinAirCedar

...

I do wear rubber gloves and have rubber tape around my ratchet handle, too.

Just to be clear - while 12V is not a issue to body parts - acid is. Rubber gloves and goggles are not a bad idea when inspecting the fluid level in a battery!

Also, metal object like ratchet handles and screw drivers are much more conductive than arms and hands. A misplaced ratchet handle on the battery will do more damage than you can imagine. Rubber tape is a great idea. And keeping the work area free of any unnecessary metal objects is a wise move. Some people will go to the trouble of removing rings before working on electrical system. Those are the folks with all 10 fingers.

--
Alan

[gbaglo]

From Progressive Dynamics: At a 40% state of charge, electrolyte will freeze if the temperature drops to approximately -16 degrees F. When a battery is fully charged the electrolyte will not freeze until the temperature drops to approximately -92 degrees F.


From Trojan:

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by PleinAirCedar

Hi Vermilye/Jon,
Holy Cow!!! No wonder there was that spark. Do you think connecting the batteries after the sun has set is ok, too? That is freaking me out that the folks at Escape forgot to drill it into my head to disconnect the batteries and make sure the solar panels were covered. I don't remember the person giving us the orientation saying anything about that. I don't have anything about that in my notes that I took and transcribed to a word processing file. And I didn't see anything about that in the part on page 61 of my Escape owners pdf where it talks about taking out the batteries.
I am freaked out and also very glad I didn't give myself a big shock, literally. Thanks so much for helping me out.

Again, Yikes!

It may not be covered in the orientation or the Escape manual, but it is in the GoPower Operatror's manual, at least the older versions. The manual for the current controller (GP-PWM-30-UL) does not specifically say not to disconnect the batteries with the panels exposed to light, but on page 12 they state "Keep the solar array covered with an opaque material until all wiring is completed" and "Connect the battery wiring to the controller first and then connect the battery wiring to the battery.".

While the newer controller might be protected against input power without a battery, I'd add a fuse or switch between the controller & panels. While you are not going to get much of a shock from the 14V or so coming out of the controller, I'd still prefer to shut down the panels first.

[Perry Butler]

I wonder how many have plugged their portable solar panels into their Zamp port with the sun shining on the panels? I know I have and don't remember any spark or arcing. Not saying to do this, but I mistakenly have.

Food for thought!

Perry

[cpaharley2008]

I have always thought when connecting and disconnecting a battery, the proper procedure was: you disconnect the ground/negative first and when connecting you connect the negative/ground last. Would not the same be with a solar panel?

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by PleinAirCedar

What is the advantage to having 6v lifeline AGM batteries? If I choose to replace the lead acid ones I have when the time comes, do I need to get a different charger? I know AGM's like slow charging. Any other input, tips, opinions on which is better are welcome. Thanks for all your help, everyone.

The advantage of AGM batteries is you don't have to refill the battery with distilled water. It is truly maintenance free. The other advantage is you can discharge them a little lower than flooded lead acid batteries.

Lifeline AGMs like FAST charging not slow charging, in fact according to the Lifeline Manual (page 20):

The charging current during the Bulk stage should be set as high as practical; higher current levels mean faster recharge time and less time for the plates to become sulfated. Due to the low impedance design, Lifeline batteries can tolerate in-rush current levels as high as 5C (500A for a 100Ah battery).

This is why I chose Lifeline batteries for my Sprinter van when I added a 320 amp second alternator. Every other battery, except Firefly, but, including LiFePO4 need current limited to 0.5C or ten times slower than charging Lifelines.

[ChuckBC]

Wouldn't it be good practise on wet cells to check specific gravity? For Interstate 6v it is 1.285? This way you can check the state of each cell in the batteries. With state of charge lower than 1.225 or 12.4v then you can't accurately load test.

[Lanark Camper]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

The advantage of AGM batteries is you don't have to refill the battery with distilled water. It is truly maintenance free. The other advantage is you can discharge them a little lower than flooded lead acid batteries.

Lifeline AGMs like FAST charging not slow charging, in fact according to the Lifeline Manual (page 20):

The charging current during the Bulk stage should be set as high as practical; higher current levels mean faster recharge time and less time for the plates to become sulfated. Due to the low impedance design, Lifeline batteries can tolerate in-rush current levels as high as 5C (500A for a 100Ah battery).



This is why I chose Lifeline batteries for my Sprinter van when I added a 320 amp second alternator. Every other battery, except Firefly, but, including LiFePO4 need current limited to 0.5C or ten times slower than charging Lifelines.

Good advice, Lifeline makes an excellent battery. I've also used Odyssey AGM batteries. I put a 140 A alternator on our sailboat and bulk charged at 100 A. Fast charging can be an advantage of AGM's but only if you have the capability to do that. The converter in the trailer can't do it.



Lifelines like to be equalized as well, some AGM's can't be.


Lifeline is a very good company and are happy to discuss applications and best practices when using their batteries.



Whatever brand of batteries you buy it's best to read up on the manufactures advice on charging requirements and numbers of charge/discharge cycles they estimate under ideal conditions. This will vary, often depending on the depth of discharge, rate and amount of recharge, whether they come up to 100% SOC after each discharge etc.


I like to use a programmable battery charger and programmable solar controller to match what is specified by the battery manufacturer for bulk, adsorption, float, and equalize to maximize their life.


I always keep batteries on a float when not in use. I have two motorcycles that are on a battery Tender when not being ridden. Previously a flooded battery would last two years, now when kept on Tenders they last 5+ years.


The two 6 V Interstate flooded batteries on our Escape were on float all winter with shore power now in summer on float with solar when not camping.


Bob

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I have always thought when connecting and disconnecting a battery, the proper procedure was: you disconnect the ground/negative first and when connecting you connect the negative/ground last. Would not the same be with a solar panel?

The batteries or solar panels don't care about the disconnect/connect order. Its a preventative measure against accidents with the tools. You are more likely to get into trouble by working on the + side and accidentally banging into a grounded piece of metal if the - is still connected. But bumping into a grounded piece of metal while working on the - side has no consequences.

Just fewer things to ruin your day, and I need all the help I can get.
--
Alan

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

The batteries or solar panels don't care about the disconnect/connect order. Its a preventative measure against accidents with the tools. You are more likely to get into trouble by working on the + side and accidentally banging into a grounded piece of metal if the - is still connected. But bumping into a grounded piece of metal while working on the - side has no consequences.

Just fewer things to ruin your day, and I need all the help I can get.
--
Alan

Learn something new everyday, I just did.

But I think my problem is I forget two or more things everyday.