Is Dometic's warranty worth the paper it is written on?

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Yup the good ol' Atwood Everest Star 8012-II. Great furnace. Your stove is probably the old Atwood too. Fridge and A/C would be Dometic. Nothing wrong with the Penguin model A/C's except the noise. Your toilet is most likely a Thetford.

I concur. Sounds like my 2009 trailer appliances.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I concur. Sounds like my 2009 trailer appliances.

Yes very few complaints it seems from the earlier trailers. Except for maybe the fridges. Even then though the very early Dometic RM2510 manual fridge like we both have has been really good for us after a few tweaks. Really unfortunate that appliance reliability seems to have gone down.

[bookerb]

My anecdote - We recently purchased a 2010 19' that had been sitting a few years and the owner reassured me that all appliances worked fine (we did not have time to test them all). Sure enough, aside from a broken faucet o-ring everything has fired up and run perfectly.

[johnnyv]

Can't Escape get another vendor ?

[Fox hunt]

I've had no problems with any appliances but based on comments wouldn't expect much from Dometic - my warranties are expired anyway.

[HABBERDABBER]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Yup the good ol' Atwood Everest Star 8012-II. Great furnace. Your stove is probably the old Atwood too. Fridge and A/C would be Dometic. Nothing wrong with the Penguin model A/C's except the noise. Your toilet is most likely a Thetford.

2016 1st gen E19. Do you believe the same goes for this as a 2015 E19?

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

2016 1st gen E19. Do you believe the same goes for this as a 2015 E19?

From somewhere in mid. 2015 on for at least a while, the std. ETI furnace was an Atwood AFSAD12 (it's got a black plastic face grille.).
Our Escape, acquired in Sept. 2015 has it.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by johnnyv

Can't Escape get another vendor ?

In North America, you have more than enough fingers on one hand to count the manufacturers of appliances for RVs. So the short answer is no, because there just aren’t many alternatives.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by johnnyv

Can't Escape get another vendor ?

I have some suggestions for them:
Cooktop: Dickinson Marine 2-burner
Oven: Dickinson Marine Carribean
Furnace: Suburban (might be louder) or Propex HS2800 (ducted)
A/C: Houghton (rebranded and available through RecPro)
Fridge: SMETA? (absorption) or Novakool (DC compressor)

[Shiny]

I'm new to this forum and have zero experience with Escape beyond making a deposit but I'm not new to the world of warranties. The last 20+ years of my retired career was spent as a reliability engineer supporting new product development.

My experience with RVs is limited to a heavily-loaded pop-up we bought used 20 years ago. This thread caught my attention because every time we took that camper out, something broke or leaked and I now view RV appliances with less than reverence.

My two cents:

- Dometic will care MUCH more about an OEM customer like Escape than it does about an individual consumer

- While Escape may "hand off" the liability to its suppliers (this is truly the way of the modern world), it is their reputation in the end and if we have ANY issue with our new Escape (in the distant future), they will be the first place I turn for help. If their suppliers ignore Escape's customers, Escape has WAY more leverage than individuals and needs to support their customer base. They may not accept the liability, but I assume they track their suppliers' field performance and warranty return rates well enough to feel good about what they are selling!

[Bill R]

Originally Posted by Shiny

- While Escape may "hand off" the liability to its suppliers (this is truly the way of the modern world), it is their reputation in the end and if we have ANY issue with our new Escape (in the distant future), they will be the first place I turn for help. If their suppliers ignore Escape's customers, Escape has WAY more leverage than individuals and needs to support their customer base. They may not accept the liability, but I assume they track their suppliers' field performance and warranty return rates well enough to feel good about what they are selling!

Our 2014 Escape 19 had grease on the brake drums, reported in https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...akes-4784.html. Escape said it was a Dexter issue and would not help. Dexter needed lots of prodding to honor the warranty, but did ship me replacement parts free of charge that I installed myself.

Our 2018 Escape 19 had stuck knobs on the Suburban SDS2 cooktop, reported in https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...ems-14239.html. Escape said it was a Suburban issue and would not help. Suburban would not talk to me or send me parts or a replacement, but they did send a replacement to an independent RV repair shop. The repairman seemed competent and installed the new cooktop and said that Suburban pays him very little. The repair shop was a 110-mile round-trip and the closest that would perform the warranty work.

Bill R

[WillyB]

Originally Posted by Bill R

Our 2014 Escape 19 had grease on the brake drums, reported in https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...akes-4784.html. Escape said it was a Dexter issue and would not help. Dexter needed lots of prodding to honor the warranty, but did ship me replacement parts free of charge that I installed myself.

Our 2018 Escape 19 had stuck knobs on the Suburban SDS2 cooktop, reported in https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...ems-14239.html. Escape said it was a Suburban issue and would not help. Suburban would not talk to me or send me parts or a replacement, but they did send a replacement to an independent RV repair shop. The repairman seemed competent and installed the new cooktop and said that Suburban pays him very little. The repair shop was a 110-mile round-trip and the closest that would perform the warranty work.

Bill R

Sounds like Escape is a great partner after investing $40,000 into THEIR manufacturing facility.

I wonder if my company who makes equipment with Stainless Steel can start deferring warranty to the Stainless Steel supplier?

[johnnyv]

Couldn't have said it any better Willy. Spot on.

[gbaglo]

The appliances have always been under the manufacturer's warranty. I'm not sure that ETI is in a position to do anything other than to threaten not to buy appliances.

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by Shiny

- Dometic will care MUCH more about an OEM customer like Escape than it does about an individual consumer

Eh......Escape isn't exactly Jayco or Fleetwood. They make very few trailers and I bet half the staff at Dometic have never even heard of them.


Had my last trailer 10 years. Had some delamination of course because it was a stick built, but all of the appliances worked the whole time.


In terms of warranty......if a unit completely quit in the warranty period and it looked expensive / difficult for me to fix I'd probably at least tilt that windmill. But in general with RV's I just fix anything I can fix myself, warranty or no. Dragging the trailer to someone else is a PITA, I don't trust most RV shops much, and so I just fix anything I can myself.

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

Eh......Escape isn't exactly Jayco or Fleetwood. They make very few trailers and I bet half the staff at Dometic have never even heard of them.....

The Escape account manager on the Dometic sales team has probably heard of them!

Understand your point and your perspective is certainly sound WRT leverage. Escape does make the decision to buy from Dometic, however, and I suspect can negotiate warranty and support terms as part of their contract. I chose not to buy a Jayco or Fleetwood for a reason and think I will pay more and wait longer for the same reason. My expectations are higher. Maybe they shouldn't be for the appliances...

Originally Posted by gbaglo

The appliances have always been under the manufacturer's warranty. I'm not sure that ETI is in a position to do anything other than to threaten not to buy appliances.

Exactly. They may not feel they have any alternative suppliers and still maintain their targeted price points but they do need to have enough confidence in their supply chain to meet their customer expectations.


I am going to assume if the Dometic warranty failure rates were high enough, Escape would address it. So hopefully, the odds of an early failure are low. How low is low? I dunno.... a GOOD consumer product may have 2 to 3% fails/returns in the first year. Higher than that and it might start affecting Escape's manufacturing operations. If they have to replace 1 of every 20 refrigerators because they break in the factory, I think they would be aggressive about correcting the issues.

[gbaglo]

Company profile FIW:
Dometic is organized into three regions: Americas, EMEA (Europe, Middle East, Africa) and APAC (Asia and Oceania). We manufacture and sell a diverse range of products for use in recreational vehicles, trucks and premium cars, pleasure and workboats, and for a variety of other uses. Our motivation is to create smart and reliable products with outstanding design.
Sales channels
Dometic uses two sales channels, Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEM) and Aftermarket (AM), to distribute our products. OEM customers are manufacturers of RVs, trucks, premium cars, pleasure and work boats, while the Aftermarket comprises upgrade and replacement products, parts and consumables as well as stand-alone Aftermarket products. These are sold through various distributors, dealers and retailers to end-users.
Global footprint
We operate 27 manufacturing and assembly sites in twelve countries and we sell our products in approximately 100 countries.

I don't think Dometic is going to be pushed around by ETI. And, if they had as many dissatisfied customers as it appears on this forum, I don't think they'd be successful.

[brroberts]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

And, if they had as many dissatisfied customers as it appears on this forum, I don't think they'd be successful.

I do think they have many dissatisfied end users, but the customers - RV manufacturers - keep using them. If I want an Escape, I have no realistic recourse but to accept the poor quality appliances available in RV’s. Escape once would customize more so that the worst offenders could be mostly avoided. They will no longer do this given their product demand. I will do what I can, but the longer it takes to get my Escape, the longer the modification list becomes.

[rbryan4]

There are quality appliances available for RVs. They just won't have names on them like Suburban or Dometic. Sure, they cost alot more, but it would seem to me that in a higher end trailer, folks would be willing to pay the difference.


Escape has already separated itself from the pack with things like customization options, the quality of the shell, the method for attaching internal components, and fit and finish. They could separate themselves from said pack even further IMHO by offering better components and appliances.

Establishing a stable and reliable supply chain from smaller manufacturers - the non-Dometics of the world - isn't easy. I get that. But using appliances with function and reliability issues presents even bigger problems.

[Mike G]

Their pricing and supply chain to the mfrs are probably much greater factors to the mfrs' way of thinking than any other factors. RV makers want dependable supply at the lowest possible price.