Is this wheel spinning noise normal - Escape Trailer Owners Community

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Tech > Problem Solving | Owners helping each other
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-28-2019, 05:27 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Middlesex County, New Jersey
Trailer: 2019 Trailer 21'
Posts: 103
Is this wheel spinning noise normal

I just did my 21's five tires rotation today, the basic pattern of spare going to the left front and left front to the left rear and so forth down to the other side till the right front becoming the spare. While I had the tires down I tried to spin the wheel hub assemblies to feel if there was any brake friction or they all spinned freely. The reason I wanted to do this is because when I was towing and coming to a stop from about 20 or 15 mph to complete stop it was usually a bit touchy and could give me a couple of nasty jerking motions. The total mileage on the trailer is about 10 -11k miles.

To my surprise all the wheel hubs had a light scraping noise when I spinned them as the attached video shows. I loosened the little brake tension adjustment cog wheel for one wheel all the way down till the cog couldn't move anymore but it still had the same noise. I feel this may not be the noise of brake drum scraping the pads but I'm not sure. Do I need to do a lube job now? But should they have this noise after 11k miles if they were properly lubricated when I picked it up? I hope nobody tells me this is normal. I hope it's an known issue and not too hard to fix.

https://youtu.be/9tZKeHeZ1to
__________________

viator36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 05:41 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
gbaglo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B - "Toad". '08 Toyota RAV4 V6
Posts: 14,653
I had touchy brakes at low speed once. It was because somehow Boost had been turned on on the brake controller. Don't know what you are using, but mine is a Prodigy P2.
As for tire rotation, Reace advised not to do a full rotation. Only rotate front to back on the same side ( obviously you need two axles ). Spare isn't used in rotation. I have a single axle, so I don't rotate at all.
I still have lots of tread left when the tires age out.
You might find something of use here: http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...e-3517-14.html
__________________

__________________
2009 Escape 17B "Toad"
2008 Toyota RAV4 V6 Sport
North Vancouver, British Columbia

What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
gbaglo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 05:49 PM   #3
Site Team
 
padlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southwick, Massachusetts
Trailer: 5.0 TA #6, 2012 F150 EB
Posts: 6,278
Is the trailer connected to the TV?
__________________
Happy Motoring
Bob
padlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 05:53 PM   #4
Site Team
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 8,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
As for tire rotation, Reace advised not to do a full rotation. Only rotate front to back on the same side ( obviously you need two axles ). Spare isn't used in rotation. I have a single axle, so I don't rotate at all.


I still have lots of tread left when the tires age out.l
I don't rotate the tires on Ten Forward at all. Okay, maybe I'm lazy or don't want to pay anyone to do it. Just replace after 5-6 years.. ALL the tires. Why would you NOT replace $1000 worth of tires that are running down the road on an asset worth MANY times that amount?
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 05:58 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Middlesex County, New Jersey
Trailer: 2019 Trailer 21'
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by padlin View Post
Is the trailer connected to the TV?
No the trailer is not connected to the TV. The funny thing is after my post I went on youtube to check on EZ lube vids and in the couple of vids I watched when they spinned their wheels they also had the slight scraping noise. Why? Car and truck wheels don't make that noise whey they free spin.
viator36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 06:03 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Middlesex County, New Jersey
Trailer: 2019 Trailer 21'
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
.... Don't know what you are using, but mine is a Prodigy P2.
My brake controller is the Redarc Tow-Pro Elite. It supposedly has real time self calibrating function and my setting is very low from 0 - 10 I set it just below 4 but it still got touchy sometimes.
viator36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 06:05 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
alanmalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
I had touchy brakes at low speed once. It was because somehow Boost had been turned on on the brake controller. ...
I'm in the turn-off-the-boost camp after wearing out my break drums - after a few years of touchy-grabby brakes. Smoother stops now, but only time will tell if I solved the premature drum wearout.

Also, I didn't rotate but replaced when the time had expired (tread looked almost new but conventional wisdom says to ignore tread when enough time has passed to consider the tires "aged out".)

--
Alan
alanmalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 06:05 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Iowa Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 5,004
Noise

I believe that if it were mine and I was concerned I would pull the drum and examine the brake assembly to make sure everything is tight and not worn out. Then I would pull out the outer bearing and check for wear and lubrication. When you take it apart check that your axle nut is not loose and that the thrust washer is tight against the bearing. So far you haven’t spent any money. Next I would remove the inner bearing which means removing and usually ruining the seal.

Examine and relube the bearings, clean and grease the spindle, reseat the bearings and install the new seal, reinstall the thrust washer and seat the axle nut and install the keeper. When the brakes are properly adjusted and the drum is turned there may be a slight scraping sound at a point as the drums are not always perfectly round nor are the brake shoes an exact arc matching the drum. Make sure you’re spinning the wheel in the normal forward direction. Bad bearings usually “rumble” I did not necessarily hear that in your audio.
Warped drums due to excessive heat can scrape even when the adjusters are pulled in if things are way out of spec.

How much “meat” is left on your shoes? Are they badly glazed?
Really look things over carefully, you’ll figure it out.
Iowa Dave
__________________
Strike while the iron is hot. Live every day as if it were your last and one day you will be right.
Dave
Iowa Dave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 06:16 PM   #9
Site Team
 
padlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southwick, Massachusetts
Trailer: 5.0 TA #6, 2012 F150 EB
Posts: 6,278
With the brake adjusted more or less correctly I can hear a scrap on each revolution. If I back off the star wheel a good bit from there I get no scraping. I asked about it being hooked up just in case there was some power getting to the magnets, which is what engages the brakes in trailer wheels. Would be worth making sure the pin didn't get pulled on the brake away switch.

I'd do like Dave and pull one that's making the noise.
__________________
Happy Motoring
Bob
padlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 06:17 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
tdf-texas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Baytown, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape - since 1/9/2017
Posts: 1,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by viator36 View Post
I just did my 21's five tires rotation today, the basic pattern of spare going to the left front and left front to the left rear and so forth down to the other side till the right front becoming the spare. While I had the tires down I tried to spin the wheel hub assemblies to feel if there was any brake friction or they all spinned freely. The reason I wanted to do this is because when I was towing and coming to a stop from about 20 or 15 mph to complete stop it was usually a bit touchy and could give me a couple of nasty jerking motions. The total mileage on the trailer is about 10 -11k miles.

To my surprise all the wheel hubs had a light scraping noise when I spinned them as the attached video shows. I loosened the little brake tension adjustment cog wheel for one wheel all the way down till the cog couldn't move anymore but it still had the same noise. I feel this may not be the noise of brake drum scraping the pads but I'm not sure. Do I need to do a lube job now? But should they have this noise after 11k miles if they were properly lubricated when I picked it up? I hope nobody tells me this is normal. I hope it's an known issue and not too hard to fix.

https://youtu.be/9tZKeHeZ1to
One of the things that is a good idea to do is relube your wheel bearings. That necessitates pulling the brake drum, packing the bearings, replacing the rear seal, and reinstalling the brake drum.

When I did mine the first time, I found brake dust in the drum - after packing and cleaning, the noise you are describing went away. Other than some hand tools, you will need:

seal puller
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

seals
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1


While you have the drum off, take a look at the magnet to see if it shows excessive wear.

Here's a video that might help

__________________
If It Isnít Perfect, It Isnít Finished
tdf-texas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 06:33 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 5,306
Quote:
Originally Posted by viator36 View Post
I hope nobody tells me this is normal.
Can I say that it's not abnormal?

I've been doing wheel bearings all my life since I started doing them in a garage when I was a teenager. If that was my wheel I wouldn't do anything. But that's just my experience.

Sure, repack the bearings if you want to, won't hurt but don't be too surprised that when you put it back together you don't still hear the same sound. The only way to get rid of any sound is to back the shoe off too much.

Ron
Ron in BC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 06:48 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Iowa Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 5,004
Drums and shoes

Fifty years ago we used to turn drums on the lathe. There was a lot of extra metal on them back them, more than the .010 inch that you get now. Once the drums were round the shoes were resurfaced (ground) to a near perfect circular arc. Asbestos filled the air. Once done and reinstalled properly, there was no high/low ring as the drum was rotated even with the adjusters turned out to within thousandths of an inch of contact. The brakes were declared to be “right there” and once reassembly was finished someone would declare “and the baby is born”. The pint of whiskey came out, asbestos was washed down, and it was time to start on another project. Such was my misguided upbringing by men who honed their mechanical skills in the hedgerows of France, Belgium and Germany only a few years before.
Iowa Dave
__________________
Strike while the iron is hot. Live every day as if it were your last and one day you will be right.
Dave
Iowa Dave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 06:48 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
gbaglo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B - "Toad". '08 Toyota RAV4 V6
Posts: 14,653
How old is this 2019 trailer anyway?
__________________
2009 Escape 17B "Toad"
2008 Toyota RAV4 V6 Sport
North Vancouver, British Columbia

What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
gbaglo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 07:01 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Middlesex County, New Jersey
Trailer: 2019 Trailer 21'
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post
Can I say that it's not abnormal?

I've been doing wheel bearings all my life since I started doing them in a garage when I was a teenager. If that was my wheel I wouldn't do anything. But that's just my experience.

Sure, repack the bearings if you want to, won't hurt but don't be too surprised that when you put it back together you don't still hear the same sound. The only way to get rid of any sound is to back the shoe off too much.

Ron
Hi Ron, I do like to hear different opinions because that help seeing things in a more balanced way. Also when all four of them have the same noise I was more included to think chances are more likely they are normal than all four of them all have a problem and it's the same problem. But can you tell me from your experience what might be the one or reasons that cause the noise? And why my car or truck wheels don't make that noise when they free spin? I remember back then when car rear wheels had drum brakes and they didn't make that noise.
viator36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 07:02 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Middlesex County, New Jersey
Trailer: 2019 Trailer 21'
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
How old is this 2019 trailer anyway?
I picked it up from ETI in mid April this year.
viator36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 07:11 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Middlesex County, New Jersey
Trailer: 2019 Trailer 21'
Posts: 103
Hi Tom, thanks for your reply and all the links, very useful. I may decide soon if I want to disassemble one at least to try to get to the bottom of this noise thing because I do want to know how things on my trailer work. I may want to email ETI my video and see what they say about the noise before taking it apart. I won't be able to hear back from them since they are closed for year end.
viator36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 07:16 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 12,488
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
As for tire rotation, Reace advised not to do a full rotation. Only rotate front to back on the same side ( obviously you need two axles ). Spare isn't used in rotation. I have a single axle, so I don't rotate at all.
I still have lots of tread left when the tires age out.
I believe that this advice results from an issue from half a century ago, in which radial tires had issues with changing their normal direction of rotation. While trailer tires can be crude compared to car and truck tires, this is not a concern any more.

For those who do wear out tires before their chosen arbitrary maximum age, not including the spare in the rotation means throwing out a completely unused tire each time (because, of course, you must be replacing the spare so it won't explode because it's too old).
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 07:55 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Middlesex County, New Jersey
Trailer: 2019 Trailer 21'
Posts: 103
I just watched the video Tom linked me on how the trailer electric drum brake works and the guy in the video said and i quote "this magnet is very close and actually is rubbing around the inside of that drum that I showed." So would the scraping noise I heard when spinning my wheels be simply the noise of the magnet rubbing on the rotating drum disk surface? It's the clean and shiny metal surface area his finger pointed to in the picture. So is this the answer to my scraping noise question? I would hope it's this simple.

drum brake disk.JPG
viator36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 09:36 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 5,306
Quote:
Originally Posted by viator36 View Post
And why my car or truck wheels don't make that noise when they free spin? I remember back then when car rear wheels had drum brakes and they didn't make that noise.
That's not an apples and apples comparison. The type of rear drum brakes used on cars were different. The operating mechanism was a hydraulic cylinder that pushed out both top ends of the brake shoes. The trailer brake shoes are moved by a magnet in quite a different way and the magnet can be lightly in contact with the drum.

With the hydraulic system I think that there's a greater chance that you can end up with the shoes more equally seated, with a few taps on the brake pedal, but even then, a little rhythmic noise wouldn't have been a concern.

I think with enough patience you could adjust the trailer brake, spin the wheel, trigger the magnet and see if the shoe ends up perfectly centered with zero contact while still being fully adjusted but the magnet could still be the source of minor noise.

To clarify, a minor rhythmic sound is one thing, a gritty sharp edged sound is another. Certainly, if in doubt, the prudent thing to do is check the wheel bearings.

Ron
Ron in BC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2019, 09:40 PM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Trailer: Sold the Bigfoot 17. Looking for something else.
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by viator36 View Post
I just watched the video Tom linked me on how the trailer electric drum brake works and the guy in the video said and i quote "this magnet is very close and actually is rubbing around the inside of that drum that I showed." So would the scraping noise I heard when spinning my wheels be simply the noise of the magnet rubbing on the rotating drum disk surface? It's the clean and shiny metal surface area his finger pointed to in the picture. So is this the answer to my scraping noise question? I would hope it's this simple.

Attachment 44056
Most likely, this is exactly the problem. Well, actually, it is normal, so it is not a problem.
__________________

Jack L is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.
×