major leak behind the shower - HELP

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Now I am confused after reading . I think maybe going back to orignal take on this and leave it alone ? Pat

Installing a cheater vent on the 19 vent would cause the grey to pressure up when filling and the sink/shower to drain slowly with burping and bubbling going on. The pressure created from water entering the tank has to go somewhere.

So, a cheater is not a good option. An open vent is needed - either like the one you currently have or maybe vented to the roof/side of the trailer if the grey smells are bothersome.

[Ron in BC]

Let's not go there, let's just say that they're in widespread use.
It's important to distinguish between grey tank gases and sewer gases.

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

In the 2017 21's, the vent is piped to the roof using flex hose and exits through a roof vent. The hose takes up a little of the back corner of the cabinet but lets the grey tank pull air in when draining and breathe out when water is entering the tank without odors getting in the trailer.

A cheater vent is OK to be added to a system that already has a main vent but doesn't quite replace the need for the main vent. The grey tank needs to breathe both in and out, filling and emptying - a cheater vent only lets it breathe in.

In the cases under discussion, the 19 does have a separate roof vent for the grey water tank. It is on the passenger side and the kitchen sink drain is attached to it.

The issue is that the open vent under the closet has an almost clear path to the grey water tank. Any odors that are generated by the tank sitting for awhile have an easy path to the trailer interior. This shallow collection of elbows could easily dry out. But, as I said, if someone smells odors, capping that vent with a cheater vent would likely be a good idea.

Ron

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

But, as I said, if someone smells odors, capping that vent with a cheater vent would likely be a good idea.

Ron

Or just using Odorlos in the grey tank as well as the black.

[Great Eggstrications]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

So, a cheater is not a good option. An open vent is needed - either like the one you currently have or maybe vented to the roof/side of the trailer if the grey smells are bothersome.

What I was getting at was that they're apparently at least approved for RV use (albeit not necessarily as the only vent), and if the one-way valve fails and sticks open, you're just back where you started. And grey fumes would be a whole bunch better than black fumes in any case.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

In the cases under discussion, the 19 does have a separate roof vent for the grey water tank. It is on the passenger side and the kitchen sink drain is attached to it.

Ron

I stand corrected! With a vent on the passenger side, a main vent to the grey exists and a cheater vent is good to go.

I'm guessing then that the vent on the drivers side exists for when the trailer is tilted to the passenger side and the driver side of the grey forms a gas pocket when the passenger side vent is blocked with water as the tank is fills? In other words, it's to allow the use of the full capacity of the tank when the trailer is not level?

ps. Boy did we ever change the subject from the original OP subject! From a PEX leak to venting!

[cpaharley2008]

I always thought venting was to let off some steam........

[Great Eggstrications]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

ps. Boy did we ever change the subject from the original OP subject! From a PEX leak to venting!

OK - I'm going to deviate a little bit too, but at least this will veer us back toward PEX and plumbing leaks. I'm planning to cut a hole in the panel below the furnace and add a door as has been documented by several members, not so much for additional storage since we travel pretty light and aren't in a storage space pinch, but having had 3 hidden plumbing leaks in houses that ended up causing lots of water damage I really want to be able to keep an eye on the sink/shower and toilet plumbing leak-wise. Since I'm not looking for additional storage space, there likely will only be some seldom used stuff in there, and it's likely that the door will very seldom be opened except for periodic plumbing leak inspections, so I'm not planning to do any finish work in the interior. So... questions for those who have already done the door modification:

1 - I know there will be differences from one 19 footer to the next, but what stuff did you run into that would be in the way? It looks like there will be a propane line, and perhaps some smallish gauge wires lurking in there. I don't intend to mess with the propane line, especially if it's already off to the side, since I'm not looking for every bit of space, and I can splice and lengthen any wires and route them off to the side or otherwise get them safely out of the way.

2 - I can either mount the propane detector flush in the door and just lengthen the wires (small gauge +12 volts and ground?) so it will swing out with the door (I'm assuming it's pretty light and won't protrude into the storage space too much; kinda weird but easy and effective), or move it to the other side of the trailer down by the floor below the sink, on the aisle side of the kitchen counter (i.e. not adjacent to the trailer door). I'm assuming there would be room for it in the dead space there? I've seen a handful of pics from members that opened up that space but it was by the trailer door, not facing the aisle - I don't want to cut a mounting hole and then find out there is something big and painful to relocate (e.g. plumbing) sitting there. It looks like I could run a fish tape forward from under the bed (oh boy!) over the tops of the wheel arches up to the front (saw a pic of a big folded umbrella atop the wheel arches), and then go in through the new mounting hole and grab the end of the fish tape and pull it through? Anyone done that successfully?

It looks like a fairly simply modification - cut a hole, get a door from Escape, surround the inside of the opening with glued-on 1x2's, maybe even get some trim for the raw edges of the plywood, and mount the door. The worst part would be working on the floor with bad knees.

Thanks, and any insights would be appreciated.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Great Eggstrications

OK - I'm going to deviate a little bit too, but at least this will veer us back toward PEX and plumbing leaks. I'm planning to cut a hole in the panel below the furnace and add a door as has been documented by several members, not so much for additional storage since we travel pretty light and aren't in a storage space pinch, but having had 3 hidden plumbing leaks in houses that ended up causing lots of water damage I really want to be able to keep an eye on the sink/shower and toilet plumbing leak-wise. Since I'm not looking for additional storage space, there likely will only be some seldom used stuff in there, and it's likely that the door will very seldom be opened except for periodic plumbing leak inspections, so I'm not planning to do any finish work in the interior. So... questions for those who have already done the door modification:

1 - I know there will be differences from one 19 footer to the next, but what stuff did you run into that would be in the way? It looks like there will be a propane line, and perhaps some smallish gauge wires lurking in there. I don't intend to mess with the propane line, especially if it's already off to the side, since I'm not looking for every bit of space, and I can splice and lengthen any wires and route them off to the side or otherwise get them safely out of the way.

2 - I can either mount the propane detector flush in the door and just lengthen the wires (small gauge +12 volts and ground?) so it will swing out with the door (I'm assuming it's pretty light and won't protrude into the storage space too much; kinda weird but easy and effective), or move it to the other side of the trailer down by the floor below the sink, on the aisle side of the kitchen counter (i.e. not adjacent to the trailer door). I'm assuming there would be room for it in the dead space there? I've seen a handful of pics from members that opened up that space but it was by the trailer door, not facing the aisle - I don't want to cut a mounting hole and then find out there is something big and painful to relocate (e.g. plumbing) sitting there. It looks like I could run a fish tape forward from under the bed (oh boy!) over the tops of the wheel arches up to the front (saw a pic of a big folded umbrella atop the wheel arches), and then go in through the new mounting hole and grab the end of the fish tape and pull it through? Anyone done that successfully?

It looks like a fairly simply modification - cut a hole, get a door from Escape, surround the inside of the opening with glued-on 1x2's, maybe even get some trim for the raw edges of the plywood, and mount the door. The worst part would be working on the floor with bad knees.

Thanks, and any insights would be appreciated.

I found I didn't need to mess with the propane line at all . The wires there just needed lengthened to lay on the floor . Made a false bottom on top of the wires . Moved the detector to otherside of kitchen , needs to be a few in off of floor . I added connectors to unconnected to change out detector or if it won't stop going off can undo 2 screws and unplug. The other cabinet was able to remove ply and look in ,what is in there before I did any cutting . Saved me from touching the heater at all. Use tape where you will be cutting the ply or it will be a mess . If you move the detector I also removed the side ply to see what was in there before I cut . Sometimes the ply just by wiggling it comes from and you can reinstall . If I forgot anything Ron or Myron can advise here too . Pat

[Great Eggstrications]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

I found I didn't need to mess with the propane line at all . The wires there just needed lengthened to lay on the floor . Made a false bottom on top of the wires . Moved the detector to otherside of kitchen , needs to be a few in off of floor . I added connectors to unconnected to change out detector or if it won't stop going off can undo 2 screws and unplug. The other cabinet was able to remove ply and look in ,what is in there before I did any cutting . Saved me from touching the heater at all. Use tape where you will be cutting the ply or it will be a mess . If you move the detector I also removed the side ply to see what was in there before I cut . Sometimes the ply just by wiggling it comes from and you can reinstall . If I forgot anything Ron or Myron can advise here too . Pat

Thanks for the rapid reply. So where exactly did you end up installing the alarm? On the passenger side below the sink, facing across the aisle, looking toward the driver's side? A picture maybe?

That would be great to hear from Ron and/or Myron, et. al.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Great Eggstrications

OK - I'm going to deviate a little bit too, but at least this will veer us back toward PEX and plumbing leaks. I'm planning to cut a hole in the panel below the furnace and add a door as has been documented by several members, not so much for additional storage since we travel pretty light and aren't in a storage space pinch, but having had 3 hidden plumbing leaks in houses that ended up causing lots of water damage I really want to be able to keep an eye on the sink/shower and toilet plumbing leak-wise. Since I'm not looking for additional storage space, there likely will only be some seldom used stuff in there, and it's likely that the door will very seldom be opened except for periodic plumbing leak inspections, so I'm not planning to do any finish work in the interior. So... questions for those who have already done the door modification:

1 - I know there will be differences from one 19 footer to the next, but what stuff did you run into that would be in the way? It looks like there will be a propane line, and perhaps some smallish gauge wires lurking in there. I don't intend to mess with the propane line, especially if it's already off to the side, since I'm not looking for every bit of space, and I can splice and lengthen any wires and route them off to the side or otherwise get them safely out of the way.

2 - I can either mount the propane detector flush in the door and just lengthen the wires (small gauge +12 volts and ground?) so it will swing out with the door (I'm assuming it's pretty light and won't protrude into the storage space too much; kinda weird but easy and effective), or move it to the other side of the trailer down by the floor below the sink, on the aisle side of the kitchen counter (i.e. not adjacent to the trailer door). I'm assuming there would be room for it in the dead space there? I've seen a handful of pics from members that opened up that space but it was by the trailer door, not facing the aisle - I don't want to cut a mounting hole and then find out there is something big and painful to relocate (e.g. plumbing) sitting there. It looks like I could run a fish tape forward from under the bed (oh boy!) over the tops of the wheel arches up to the front (saw a pic of a big folded umbrella atop the wheel arches), and then go in through the new mounting hole and grab the end of the fish tape and pull it through? Anyone done that successfully?

It looks like a fairly simply modification - cut a hole, get a door from Escape, surround the inside of the opening with glued-on 1x2's, maybe even get some trim for the raw edges of the plywood, and mount the door. The worst part would be working on the floor with bad knees.

Thanks, and any insights would be appreciated.

Yes, we are a bit off the original post and I'm waiting with baited breath for the results of their trouble shooting to determine what the problem is. I was a late adopter of pex because of previous poly-B problems but I've used it lot and I'm really hoping the cause isn't that a pex fitting has let go.

1. My photo of the space pretty much shows the situation. I didn't move the propane line and I store several tool boxes and bags there. The cabinet beside that space is shallow and there is room behind it as well as in the wheel arches.

2. I mounted my propane detector on the other side. Yes, there are framing considerations. On my trailer, even before I cut the opening for the access door to the left of the door, I removed the end panel under the sink. It's just tacked in. That would let you see how high off the floor it has to be to avoid the thicker framing. I picked up power from some wiring already in that space.

Oh yah, that was my umbrella that you saw. Just a stand in for other types of long objects. And yes, it's an absolutely clear space from the rear storage compartment, stick your head in the door and shine a flashlight, to the end of the kitchen cabinets by the door.

Having said all that, if you don't think that you'd use the storage space I'd say just do what Myron did. Pull the closet floor up while you're controlling the situation, not when a problem is happening. Put it back in place with a few easy to remove screws.

Ron

[Great Eggstrications]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

2. I mounted my propane detector on the other side. Yes, there are framing considerations. On my trailer, even before I cut the opening for the access door to the left of the door, I removed the end panel under the sink. It's just tacked in. That would let you see how high off the floor it has to be to avoid the thicker framing. I picked up power from some wiring already in that space.

Having said all that, if you don't think that you'd use the storage space I'd say just do what Myron did. Pull the closet floor up while you're controlling the situation, not when a problem is happening. Put it back in place with a few easy to remove screws.

Ron

Thanks for jumping in. I really appreciate the input.

When you say you "removed the end panel under the sink. It's just tacked in", are you referring to the front-most panel inside the double cabinets down by the floor in the kitchen counter? That would provide some good visual access into that space.

Can you confirm that the wiring is just some 14-ish gauge, +12 volts and ground.

I appreciate your suggestion to just lift up the closet floor and gain access that way, but we have a set of drawers filling the closet from top to bottom that are bolted together into a single unit, and taking them out would mean unscrewing them from each other and taking them out one at a time - a real pita. And I'm sure we'll find something to fill new newly accessible space.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Great Eggstrications

Thanks for the rapid reply. So where exactly did you end up installing the alarm? On the passenger side below the sink, facing across the aisle, looking toward the driver's side? A picture maybe?

That would be great to hear from Ron and/or Myron, et. al.

I am going to jump back in here Ron . I took a few more pictures for you . I installed the detector in the same place as Ron . As you can see on the inside there is some blocking that we both used . In other words the backside of the detector is sitting on that blocking. The paneling you can remove is the cabinet under the refrigerator next to heater side . Also under kitchen cabinet where we installed our detectors . I added screws in case I want to remove again . One of Ron's pictures is , kitchen cabinet on the side near the door which he added another space and door . Hope this helps . Pat

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

I am going to jump back in here Ron . I took a few more pictures for you . I installed the detector in the same place as Ron . As you can see on the inside there is some blocking that we both used . In other words the backside of the detector is sitting on that blocking. The paneling you can remove is the cabinet under the refrigerator next to heater side . Also under kitchen cabinet where we installed our detectors . I added screws in case I want to remove again . One of Ron's pictures is , kitchen cabinet on the side near the door which he added another space and door . Hope this helps . Pat

I will go look at my old photo's . I think they may show more . Also I changed the bottom cabinet at kitchen for more storage if you see carpet . You don't need to do that just remove the side that you see the screws to look in there . Pat

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

I will go look at my old photo's . I think they may show more . Also I changed the bottom cabinet at kitchen for more storage if you see carpet . You don't need to do that just remove the side that you see the screws to look in there . Pat

old photo's for installation . pat

[Patandlinda]

photo of extra storage Pat

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Great Eggstrications

When you say you "removed the end panel under the sink. It's just tacked in", are you referring to the front-most panel inside the double cabinets down by the floor in the kitchen counter? That would provide some good visual access into that space.

Can you confirm that the wiring is just some 14-ish gauge, +12 volts and ground.

And I'm sure we'll find something to fill new newly accessible space.

As they say, " a photo is worth a thousand words". Yes, that's the panel. It stops about an inch short of the underside of the shelf so it's pretty easy to just put your fingers over the top and work it back and forth a bit to loosen it. It's just held in with a couple of staples and maybe a couple of dabs of glue. Mine's a friction fit so I didn't even have to reattach it.

Yes, all wiring is suitable for the CO detector, it's a very low draw.

I can see removing the closet bottom isn't an easy option for you. Handy, easy access storage spaces like that do seem to get used.

Ron

[MyronL]

Wow, all of this discussion started with a simple query from bjsmitty, the newbie from Wisconsin, searching for answers on how to find a leak. Haven't heard a peep from him since his first post. Curious minds need to know if smitty got the help he needed, or if we just scared him off.

[cpaharley2008]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE

[Great Eggstrications]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Wow, all of this discussion started with a simple query from bjsmitty, the newbie from Wisconsin, searching for answers on how to find a leak. Haven't heard a peep from him since his first post. Curious minds need to know if smitty got the help he needed, or if we just scared him off.

Well yeah - ya never know whether to start a brand new thread or append to an existing one. In any case, many grateful thanks to MyronL, Patandlinda, and Ron_in_BC for their help.

One last question - anyone know what the wires running up through the floor are for?

Not sure what the 'biting the dust' reference is all about...

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Great Eggstrications

Well yeah - ya never know whether to start a brand new thread or append to an existing one. In any case, many grateful thanks to MyronL, Patandlinda, and Ron_in_BC for their help.

One last question - anyone know what the wires running up through the floor are for?

Not sure what the 'biting the dust' reference is all about...

Ron , Myron where are you , the 2 wires I forgot . The 2 wires you see hanging I caped off they were for the smoke detector so I could still use them if I find a reason . Pat