Need your advice

[kavm]

I have an update on the latest situation with installation of rails on my 2021 F150:

• Curt: I provided the part numbers shared by ksfisk to my installer, who then spoke with the Curt representative. Curt rep did not confirm the fit with 2021 F150, and informed my installer that the Curt parts with for the vehicle will be available in July. Curt website claimed fit with my truck and ksfisk has the first hand experience but neither my installer nor I were ready to proceed with Curt rep discouraging it.
• Demco: Demco has two part numbers 8552028 (brackets) and 6071 (rails). I ordered - and later cancelled - them, as discussed below. The Demco rep was quite unhappy with my plan to use Andersen Ultimate as my hitch. It is not really a 5th wheel hitch and its manufacturer does not even bother to make their own rails. Why would I do this? I told him 60-65 lbs weight savings but he was not impressed.
• B&W: B&W parts go into production during the week of May 17th. That's late for us given that we leave on our trip to Sumas,WA on May 27th. So, I had given up on B&W and ordered the Demco parts today. So, B&W came back to me today with a rather extraordinary offer -
  
  They are putting together their kit (pre-production?) to send to me/installer at no cost! In return for feedback on the installer on how the install goes.
  
  I felt a little nervous - as a guinea pig and nervous about whether this will get here in time. On the other hand, they have been thorough in their efforts to confirm and achieve fit with the new F150 and their parts for this model of F150 are going into production are about to go into production. So, I felt more confident of the fit with B&W, and the price isn't bad either So, I rolled the dice and accepted their offer.

Will let you know how it goes. There is nervousness about the timing and fit risks but that's how it goes.

[ksfisk]

B&W seems to have offered great customer support throughout this process. I would have jumped at their offer too! The whole Curt customer support answer is odd, but I would tend to believe what the manufacturer says. Makes me wonder what went on with my install! I really do have a lot of faith in the shop that did the work for me though. they've been doing what they do, forever and they have a really good reputation. Hope I'm not crazy for trusting them. ��

[Centex]

That's outstanding news, methinks that B&W is going to put you on the cutting edge of success even if it takes a bit of 'above and beyond' service on their part to get it right.

[kavm]

Indeed, my experience with B&W Support has been outstanding so far - and it played a big role. I hope the coming days confirm my judgment.

You are fine with your Curt install. There are a coupe of possibilities: (a) the rep wasn’t well informed, and (b) your installer did a superlative job. Either way, it works. My installer (who too has been in service for a long time) also mentioned that they have universal rail kits that they’d like to try - so, seems like there is some room for the installer’s skill in the matter.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by Centex

That's outstanding news, methinks that B&W is going to put you on the cutting edge of success even if it takes a bit of 'above and beyond' service on their part to get it right.

Thank you! That’s what I think too. If we run into any issues - I am sure that the B&W engineering would support us. Of course, I hope that is not necessary and there is a limit on what they can do from a distance.

[camp4528]

This is very good news.

I hope and expect it all turns out seamlessly. It is also certainly somewhat reassuring that you and ksfisk will be wrangling 5500 GCVR rather than the 20000 the Andersen is rated for.

I’ll be waiting for updates with bated breath!

[kavm]

Originally Posted by camp4528

This is very good news.

I hope and expect it all turns out seamlessly. It is also certainly somewhat reassuring that you and ksfisk will be wrangling 5500 GCVR rather than the 20000 the Andersen is rated for.

I’ll be waiting for updates with bated breath!

Thank you! I have a few more nervous days ahead to wait for the B&W kit to get here.

PS: I think you mean GT(railer)WR (20,000). Our GC(ombined)V weight will include the weight of the truck and passengers and will be of the order of 10,000 lbs. Incidentally - your post made me look up the GTWR for Andersen Ultimate - and noted that the rating for the rails version is 20,000 lbs while that for the gooseneck version is 24,000 lbs.

[camp4528]

Thank you for correcting my acronym spaghetti. Yes, I meant the trailer is max 5500 and the Andersen is max 20000, so there is plenty of breathing room.

[kavm]

No worries! When I started on this forum - I didn’t know the first thing about these concepts. A lot of reading later, I have caught up on the terms. The facility with actual towing is still far away…

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by kavm

The Demco rep was quite unhappy with my plan to use Andersen Ultimate as my hitch.

I'm disappointed by the Demco rep. Some of us have had much better experiences with them. Perhaps they're good when discussing their own products, but shouldn't be asked about any other company's products.

As for the rep's comments...

Originally Posted by kavm

It is not really a 5th wheel hitch and its manufacturer does not even bother to make their own rails.

No, it's not a fifth-wheel. So? There's no need for a fifth-wheel; a ball hitch is a valid alternative.

Andersen does not "bother" to make their own rails... and why would they? Demco doesn't make their own bolts, because there are other companies that manufacture and supply bolts effectively and economically, so it would be stupid for Demco to make their own bolts. Similarly, there are other companies that manufacture and supply rails effectively and economically, so there is no reason for Andersen to make their own rails.

There's no point in manufacturing rails if you're not going to manufacture mounting brackets for them. Good mounting brackets are vehicle-specific, so a huge investment in design effort, manufacturing setup, and inventory is required to offer a proper selection. Andersen has chosen to stay out of the vehicle-specific end of this business, which makes good sense.

[kavm]

Thanks Brian! The Demco rep was being a bit pushy. I wasn’t asking his advice or volunteering my choice of the hitch - but he asked and I responded truthfully. His insistence was a bit off putting but not a deal breaker. I had order the Demco components only to reconsider when B&W approached me. I hope that turns out to be a good choice.

[gjsheldon]

kavm
I have exactly the same setup for TV [2021 F150 Powerboost hybrid]. I have been in contact with B&W for the past 2 months as their gooseneck Turnover ball hitch went through the re-engineering process due to the F150 frame changes this year. It just went live on their website on Monday and I ordered it for direct shipment yesterday. I’m willing to give up the weight loss for the versatility of the turnover ball option having had rails in the past. I’m curious as to how you plan to position and configured your “in bed” 7 pin plug. I didn’t add the 7kW power inverter option so I only have the single duplex outlet on the drivers side power box. That leaves a space for a possible 7/12 pin install next to the duplex outlet.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by gjsheldon

kavm
I have exactly the same setup for TV [2021 F150 Powerboost hybrid]. I have been in contact with B&W for the past 2 months as their gooseneck Turnover ball hitch went through the re-engineering process due to the F150 frame changes this year. It just went live on their website on Monday and I ordered it for direct shipment yesterday. I’m willing to give up the weight loss for the versatility of the turnover ball option having had rails in the past. I’m curious as to how you plan to position and configured your “in bed” 7 pin plug. I didn’t add the 7kW power inverter option so I only have the single duplex outlet on the drivers side power box. That leaves a space for a possible 7/12 pin install next to the duplex outlet.

Hi Gary,

Indeed - B&W is starting production or their gooseneck Turnover ball next week. I am sticking with rails and have a pre-production (but planned for production) B&W rails kit being sent to my installer. We will share pictures and other feedback to B&W.

You have me a bit worried with your question on the positioning and configuration of the “in bed” 7 pin plug. I have the max tow option on my truck and it is supposed to include the 7-pin connector. I am hoping that Ford has already installed that at the factory. That said, I have not looked at it closely - may be it is about time I did that...

[Centex]

Originally Posted by kavm

....
You have me a bit worried with your question on the positioning and configuration of the “in bed” 7 pin plug. I have the max tow option on my truck and it is supposed to include the 7-pin connector. I am hoping that Ford has already installed that at the factory. That said, I have not looked at it closely - may be it is about time I did that...

No worries!

The Ford Max Tow includes a 7-pin connector near the 2x2 receiver under the rear bumper (great for bumper-pull trailers). It's quite common and convenient to have a second 7-pin connector installed flush in the bed sidewall for '5th wheel towing', usually near / slightly to the rear of the wheel well on the driver's side.

That location will be within easy reach and convenient to the 7-pin cord hanging from near the pinbox on your 5.0 per 5th wheel industry practice. Some folks like 'em low near the floor of the bed, personally I like higher near the top rail so it's easier to reach standing next to the truck and the cord can drape over things placed in the bed (YMMV - purely personal choice).

There's plenty of kits to facilitate this without any wire cutting by inserting an OE-matching 'T-Tap" connector complete with the required harness and socket at the back of the Ford-provided socket (both sockets will be fully functional).

Your competent hitch installer will certainly be versed in this and offer recommendations, highly unlikely to be a 'glitch' even with your '21 powerboost.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by kavm

You have me a bit worried with your question on the positioning and configuration of the “in bed” 7 pin plug. I have the max tow option on my truck and it is supposed to include the 7-pin connector. I am hoping that Ford has already installed that at the factory. That said, I have not looked at it closely - may be it is about time I did that...

As already explained, the max tow package will include a suitable 7-pin receptacle in the rear bumper - you can just drape the trailer's cable over the tailgate and plug in, and many people do that happily. An in-bed receptacle can be added so the cable doesn't have to run over the tailgate, but that is not required.

[kavm]

Thank you both for explaining it so nicely. I will chat with our hitch installer, but will likely go without to start with. Once we have figured out which end of the trailer to connect to, we will become more adventuresome

PS: A quick update - We wired the final payment to ETI today. Also confirmed our pickup in Sumas, WA on May 31 (Memorial Day)!

[gjsheldon]

Originally Posted by Centex

No worries!

The Ford Max Tow includes a 7-pin connector near the 2x2 receiver under the rear bumper (great for bumper-pull trailers). It's quite common and convenient to have a second 7-pin connector installed flush in the bed sidewall for '5th wheel towing', usually near / slightly to the rear of the wheel well on the driver's side.

That location will be within easy reach and convenient to the 7-pin cord hanging from near the pinbox on your 5.0 per 5th wheel industry practice. Some folks like 'em low near the floor of the bed, personally I like higher near the top rail so it's easier to reach standing next to the truck and the cord can drape over things placed in the bed (YMMV - purely personal choice).

There's plenty of kits to facilitate this without any wire cutting by inserting an OE-matching 'T-Tap" connector complete with the required harness and socket at the back of the Ford-provided socket (both sockets will be fully functional).

Your competent hitch installer will certainly be versed in this and offer recommendations, highly unlikely to be a 'glitch' even with your '21 powerboost.

Just for clarity, my question didn't have to do with the installers ability to install a 7-pin plug in the truck bed side wall. The 2021-F150 Powerboost has a duplex 120V power outlet in the location that the plug would normally be installed (see photo 1). My desire is to have the new dual 7-pin, 12-pin outlet in the truck bed (see photo 2). The in-bed duplex outlet is backed with a sealed 2-gang outlet box inside the truck bed side wall that is only 2.5" deep so the wiring bundle clearance is challenging at best (perhaps impossible). I'm looking into creating a modified box to seal only the duplex power outlets and leave the other side open for attaching the 7-12 pin receptacle which is available from Ford. I'm reaching out to Nichol's Services in Phoenix because they already have fabricated a new mount plate to allow this setup in the Ford SuperDuty trucks which have only the "in-bed" 7 pin outlet. The 12-pin outlet is for the new backup YAW sensor, TPMS, and Ford Camera that feeds directly into the built in 12" screen in the center console. If anyone has some engineering ideas to add I'm very open to input.

[UncleTim]

Mine was put here and I advise to put it up higher.

I do like it inside the bed of the truck. It feels safer there.

Someday I may move my location up higher, out of the way. It is harder to plug in here and things get in the way. They do.

[kavm]

Latest Status: Since I started this thread in a panic about the availability of rails for 2021 F150 - I want to report that things are progressing.

• B&W has shipped (pre-production) rail kit to my local installer yesterday. [They have supplied it without cost (including shipping) in return for feedback on the installation process. My installer - a B&W dealer - will be doing that.]
• Expecting that the kit will be received next week, I have an appointment on Friday for the installation. In the event it gets delayed - I have till the Wednesday of the following week to complete it.

Question: Obviously, the installer is only installing the rails in the truck bed. I have purchased Andersen Ultimate separately. I will take the hitch with me and ask them to set it up and make sure it fits well.

Is there any other instruction I need to give the installer?

• Escape Towing Guide gives a number of dimensions but I am not sure what to do with them. The rails, I presume, will be placed in standard positions and will have a fixed height, so I not much to do there.
• There are some height requirements, e.g., 58" maximum bedrail and tailgate height for high-lift trailer axles. I am unclear what I am doing with that. The truck has the tailgate height it has. Open tailgate to ground = 35.8" and cargo bed height = 21.4". So, that (57.2") seems to work by a whisker - thanks to the high lift axle. I don't think it'd have worked without the high lift.
• Anything else from Escape/Andersen Ultimate that I need to communicate with the installer?

Many thanks!


PS:

• Escape did send me some pictures. Looks like I paid up too soon as our camper seems to be very much a work in progress Seems like they will be hurrying to finish it by the 19th...
• It is likely that our choice of upholstery made it into the latest Escape newsletter email in the customer inspired interior ideas. I am not certain but ours should look like the rightmost picture (red upholstery).

[camp4528]

Very excited for you kavm. Will want all the initial impressions (and photos if you are ok with it) please!!

Also looking forward to all your well thought out enhancements such as the dickinson stove, compressor fridge and wifi/cell access hatch as well as the Ford trailer integration. (eg backup camera, tpms, etc)