New Escape, weak brakes?

[lonewolfjb]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

Give me a brake!

I just put new brake sets on our 21. I adjusted them so far out the wheel and tire would not spin, one at a time. Then I backed the adjuster off a few notches and got the wheel to spin and I could hear the shoes make partial contact with the drums. High spot ——Low spot. Then I went out with the trailer to burnish the brakes. I had my controller set to the same setting as it was on the old brakes. No trailer brakes on 4.0 but when I stopped and Rita applied the brakes, I got out and stood by the wheel, I could hear the magnets trying to actuate the lever. Gave up for the night (outside). Back in the house, Read up on the brakes, watched a few videos. Next day made sure that I had the Tekonsha p-3 set right for T-1 and Boost on 1. Out on the county blacktops again. Turned the setting up and up and up. Finally at 12.0 got good braking. Burnished the brakes as per instructions. Did not slide the tires on paving but it would slide them on gravel. Came home satisfied I was safe. However, I’m going to adjust them again to take any slack up. I’ll do this in about 250 miles a couple weeks from now.

In retrospect and deep in thought, why did it take so much more power? Below is a picture of the new brake set next to the old one. Note that the original set had two springs one for each shoe. The new set has only one spring and it’s a hell of a lot bigger than the original, is engineered differently, and would take more power to actuate in my opinion. I’m satisfied with that conclusion, right or wrong.

As a side note, the used brakes I replaced were original to the trailer and had way more than 60,000miles on the trailer. The previous owner used it from 2013 late season, till mid summer 2017. Then we bought it. And I’ve towed a recorded 40,000 plus miles. I am easy on brakes as a general rule. Took the Highlander in for an inspection two weeks ago. Had 50 percent pad left and have 95,000 miles on the 2018 Highlander.
That’s my brakes story and I’m sticking to it. On the brake set (Dexter) there is a manufacturing date stamp so if you buy a used trailer and want to know the age and thickness of the shoes you have left, an inspection that you can do yourself is easily possible.
Your milage, stopping distance, wear and tear will be relative to how you drive, where you drive, how often you adjust your brakes, using the transmission to hold her back going down the mountain, and several other factors. Just like your go milage (gas milage) there’s a stop milage (brake wear). As I see it.
Iowa Dave

1. Upper left : Old set and new set
2. Upper Right: Stamped manufactured date on brake set frame. Our 21 was the 6th one off the line after three prototypes ( aug 13 stamp)
3. Lower left: Original set with well over 60K on them probably closer to 80K
4. Lower right: Grease on bearing that had been packed 27,000 miles ago. Would have gone a lot farther.
Good Camping to you.

Wow Dave, Its amazing to see how much brake pad is left after all those miles. I wonder if they are the original pads?

[Ron in BC]

I'm kind of amazed by all this. I've installed and adjusted brakes for a long time. I've never done the burnishing routine and certainly very unlikely to do so. I'll be heading out next week with a brand new never used axle and brake assembly and I figure by the time I'm finished getting out past Chilliwack the freeway stop and go traffic will have seated the brake shoes. Sometime after that I'll readjust the brakes.

Do what you're comfortable with.

As far as locking up brakes on pavement. Remember trailer tires are expensive now and a flat spotted one is a possibility if you deliberately lock up one on pavement.

Ron

[MichaelS78]

Ok so I hitched up and did the burnishing technique in the video. Brakes got really hot and I could smell them so I know it was working. Tried to use temperature gun on them but it was hard to park fast enough and get under to scan all 4. But the first one I scanned was 350 degrees and each one after that about a 100 degrees less. I figure it's because I wasn't moving fast enough. They cool quick. I waited awhile and then tested the brakes for skidding at about 25mph and bingo it worked! They're definitely grabbing better now. I'm going to adjust them now since it's been 200 miles and I think that will help some more. Hoping to dial them into a setting around 6 like most people are able to. Not sure why they came a bit weak from the factory but they were still working so no worries.

I do feel much more comfortable taking my family over a mountain pass next week. I know some on here are fine to just wing it and hope it's fine with the controller maxed out but I wasn't.

[Iowa Dave]

I think you did the right thing and after running them a while you can adjust them to your liking.

Iowa Dave

[Rossue]

Good one trusting your instincts! My replacements took a long time too. Went through unneeded grief with the original brakes not knowing to burnish them. In 2014 all ETI was saying was check the lug nuts after 200 miles, which I did, yet the right front was locking up just prior to a stop and while Dexter was great- bought me a tire and paid for a new backing plate with installation I now feel it was the needed adjustment that caused my problem.

[MrLynn]

Never had a new trailer, so inherited the brakes on my Casita and my 'new' 2019 Escape. The previous Casita owner did not know it had electric brakes (really!), so I adjusted them and tested a little so they worked at 6.0 on the factory controller. I've just left it at 6.0 for the Escape, and just squeezed the manual control a little starting out for the day (on our current 'sea trials' trip), and the brakes seem to work. I assume they're helping slow our Expedition as needed, but not sure I'd know if they weren't. Would you?

[Jack!]

The 2022 Escape trailers have Nev-R-Adjust brakes, stock (per Dustin). Our's is a Feb 2022 trailer. We verified via the labels on the axles.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

I assume they're helping slow our Expedition as needed, but not sure I'd know if they weren't. Would you?

To test that just slide the brake control lever all the way while coasting at 45 mph or so.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Dan: You probably do not have the Dexter Nev-R-Adjust version of the brakes. I have not heard that Escape uses them stock.

Originally Posted by Jack!

The 2022 Escape trailers have Nev-R-Adjust brakes, stock (per Dustin). Our's is a Feb 2022 trailer. We verified via the labels on the axles.

Well I stand corrected. I wonder if this is across all new models. Glad to see Escape is still making small improvements where they can.

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Well I stand corrected. I wonder if this is across all new models. Glad to see Escape is still making small improvements where they can.

Can only verify the Feb 22, 2022, 5.0. Dustin did say that a few "very early" 2022 trailers might have missed the new brakes upgrade, so check the axle labels to verify.

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by Jack!

Can only verify the Feb 22, 2022, 5.0. Dustin did say that a few "very early" 2022 trailers might have missed the new brakes upgrade, so check the axle labels to verify.

I saw that other thread about auto adjusting brakes and emailed Escape. Turns out I too have the auto adjusting brakes. I was pretty frustrated because I spent too much time on them Saturday not understanding why 2 of the 4 were smooth wheels instead of the star wheels with gears. They would only turn one way and I wasn't able to see a difference so I gave up on those 2 brakes. But the other 2 were the usual star wheels and responded to up or down turns. I now need to get under the trailer and write down the serial number and confirm if I have lippert or Dexter.

[LtDan]

It does seem every time I back the trailer the brakes worked better, I noticed this especially when we had to back up a forest road in CO on our way back home from Sumas.
If they are self adjusting I assume it’s like drum brakes of old?
For reference we picked up our trailer April 14.
Michael, you mention Dexter, and Lippert, I thought they were all Dexter?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by LtDan

It does seem every time I back the trailer the brakes worked better, I noticed this especially when we had to back up a forest road in CO on our way back home from Sumas.
If they are self adjusting I assume it’s like drum brakes of old?

The Dexter Nev-R-Adjust are supposed to adjust during both forward and reverse stops.

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by LtDan

you mention Dexter, and Lippert, I thought they were all Dexter?

Looks like some trailers are getting lippert axles now.

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...les-22891.html

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

Looks like some trailers are getting lippert axles now.

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...les-22891.html

We were lucky in getting the Dexter Nev-R-Adjust axles. Saw reports Dexter service is good. We found Lippert service is a nightmare. Lippert refuses to ship warrentee parts direct to the trailer owner. Parts have to ship to an RV dealership. Lippert won't provide any case information to the trailer owner for "privacy concerns".

We are lucky the RV dealership parts guy has been great in helping us. We have been waiting since late Feb for Lippert to ship repair parts for our broken emergency egress window. The plastic connector on the window latch broke, window flapping in the wind bent the frame on our first 20 mile trip. Lippert approved the warrentee service months ago. RV dealer parts guy says he hates dealing with Lippert. He told us they ship parts to manufacturers first and repair service gets the leftovers. He said Lippert has been building a monopoly on many parts. So, we will have a duct taped closed window for quite some time, yet.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Jack!

We were lucky in getting the Dexter Nev-R-Adjust axles. Saw reports Dexter service is good. We found Lippert service is a nightmare. Lippert refuses to ship warrentee parts direct to the trailer owner. Parts have to ship to an RV dealership. Lippert won't provide any case information to the trailer owner for "privacy concerns".

We are lucky the RV dealership parts guy has been great in helping us. We have been waiting since late Feb for Lippert to ship repair parts for our broken emergency egress window. The plastic connector on the window latch broke, window flapping in the wind bent the frame on our first 20 mile trip. Lippert approved the warrentee service months ago. RV dealer parts guy says he hates dealing with Lippert. He told us they ship parts to manufacturers first and repair service gets the leftovers. He said Lippert has been building a monopoly on many parts. So, we will have a duct taped closed window for quite some time, yet.

Sounds like Lippert has gone the way of Dometic.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

You want to be able to lock up the brakes on gravel- not pavement.

True.

Not being able to lock up the brakes means that the brakes can't produce enough braking torque to overcome tire traction, and on dry pavement that's a lot more traction than the brakes need to be able to supply.

I wouldn't worry about not being able to lock up brakes; I want them to provide the trailer's share of braking effort.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Sounds like Lippert has gone the way of Dometic.

Lippert has long been very similar to Dometic, with multiple product lines which are generally related (to RVs, mostly) but built by acquisition and operated independently.

They've picked up some interesting things, but not all have survived. The clever Quick Bite coupler was one that was independent, then acquired by Lippert, then disappeared.

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

True.

Not being able to lock up the brakes means that the brakes can't produce enough braking torque to overcome tire traction, and on dry pavement that's a lot more traction than the brakes need to be able to supply.

I wouldn't worry about not being able to lock up brakes; I want them to provide the trailer's share of braking effort.

I am 100 percent in agreement with Brian’s last sentence here. When the trailer works in concert with the tow rig, wear is not excessive on either one as long as they are not expected to do too much. In addition gearing down on the steep descents, and letting the engine/transmission combination help to hold the rig back instead of riding and overheating the brakes is good practice too.
Iowa Dave