No GFCI trip on GFCI labeled circiut

[rjreeves]

While checking circuits for correct labeling in my 2019 E21' based on Centex's informative thread "Tip - Map what's Really on your breakers and fuses"

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post396715

I discovered the following: the 120v. duplex outlet located in the cabinet face in front of the sink that is labeled "GFCI protected outlet" apparently isn't. There are no test and reset buttons on the duplex receptacle face, ergo the circuit trip must be a GFCI breaker yes? Well, it isn't.



The breaker for the circuit, one of the two 15a. trips located in the panel box separate from the WFCO power center has no test/reset function. And it's not as though they just put the Romex into the wrong breaker, neither of them are GFCI trip breakers.


So is there a third option for a GFCI trip location on this circuit? I can't imagine so but if I've missed the obvious, please, clue me in.



Granted, this is not a huge deal for me, I'm quite capable of swapping out one breaker for another, nor am I prone to mixing electricity and water on a regular basis, but it might be important to others in the Escape community so I'm posting it here as an FYI.



It seems like another unforced error on ETI's part. I'm not ETI bashing here, my trailer is light years ahead of anything built by Forest Floor Elkhart but a missing GFCI trip could be a fairly egregious error in the wrong hands.


Unless, as stated above, I've just missed the obvious.



For those who want to know, both breakers in the separate panel box are labeled the following:


TYPE BR115
TYPE C115
120/240V.~
Cu/Al SWD
HACR TYPE
1 POLE J969
E7819-T

[wackyburggeezer]

Check your outside receptacle. That one should be a GFI receptacle. The receptacles inside your trailer (most of them) will probably be "downstream" of the GFI receptacle.

[rjreeves]

Originally Posted by wackyburggeezer

Check your outside receptacle. That one should be a GFI receptacle. The receptacles inside your trailer (most of them) will probably be "downstream" of the GFI receptacle.

That was it! Didn't think to check the exterior plug.
Thank you.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by wackyburggeezer

Check your outside receptacle. That one should be a GFI receptacle. The receptacles inside your trailer (most of them) will probably be "downstream" of the GFI receptacle.

Only the galley is GFI protected by the exterior plug. Those two are the only ones in need.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Only the galley is GFI protected by the exterior plug. Those two are the only ones in need.

Yep, and in the case of my 5.0 where I requested "Delete" of the exterior outlet they installed an interior GFCI outlet on the PS dinette bench face, with the galley outlet wired downstream of that one for protection.

Then, just to keep things interesting, there's this thread about a much older Escape (2012 17B) where the owner found a tripped interior GFCI outlet disabled the exterior outlets and his fridge AC power outlet!.

Who said things never change?

[kathytony1985]

We received our trailer last week and that exact outlet, in the galley area, doesn't appear to work. Yes, we reset the GFCI, but it still doesn't appear to be a live outlet. Any ideas?

[Iowa Dave]

Is your outside outlet functional when reset? That would be the first thing I would check. Then if so, I would check for current at your inside receptacle. On the back side, not just probing the plug in. Shut off the power when you’re working around these things I’d you pull the outlet out of the box and expose the back. Then check and then shut power off when you’re putting them back in place. Might just be a loose or unhooked wire.
Iowa Dave

[kathytony1985]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

Is your outside outlet functional when reset? That would be the first thing I would check. Then if so, I would check for current at your inside receptacle. On the back side, not just probing the plug in. Shut off the power when you’re working around these things I’d you pull the outlet out of the box and expose the back. Then check and then shut power off when you’re putting them back in place. Might just be a loose or unhooked wire.
Iowa Dave

Yes, the outside outlet is functional before/after reset. We did not go further than checking the plug in inside. We will pull the outlet and check for loose wires. This is the only issue with the electrical system. Thank you for your quick reply!

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by kathytony1985

We received our trailer last week and that exact outlet, in the galley area, doesn't appear to work. Yes, we reset the GFCI, but it still doesn't appear to be a live outlet. Any ideas?

Unfortunately the self-contained outlets that Escape is now using are crap and don't have good contact area internally where the wire engages. My bet is an installation error and they never checked the outlet. Or they checked the outlet but after some vibration going down the road it doesn't work. I haven't done it but I wonder if it is possible to replace a self-contained outlet with a shallow box and traditional outlet?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Only the galley is GFI protected by the exterior plug. Those two are the only ones in need.

For those of us with absorption refrigerators the 120V outlet is in the vented cavity that could see some moisture. I have wondered if this should technically be a GFI outlet.

[kathytony1985]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

Is your outside outlet functional when reset? That would be the first thing I would check. Then if so, I would check for current at your inside receptacle. On the back side, not just probing the plug in. Shut off the power when you’re working around these things I’d you pull the outlet out of the box and expose the back. Then check and then shut power off when you’re putting them back in place. Might just be a loose or unhooked wire.
Iowa Dave

Yes, the outside outlet is functional before/after reset. We did not go further than checking the plug in inside. We will pull the outlet and check for loose wires. This is the only issue with the electrical system. Thank you for your quick reply!

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

For those of us with absorption refrigerators the 120V outlet is in the vented cavity that could see some moisture. I have wondered if this should technically be a GFI outlet.

Their protection purpose is for devices used in a moist area. The refrigerator is dry. I guess someone could possibly use it for something used outside when wet, but that is not the intention nor very likely.

Easy to change if you felt it needed.

[kathytony1985]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Unfortunately the self-contained outlets that Escape is now using are crap and don't have good contact area internally where the wire engages. My bet is an installation error and they never checked the outlet. Or they checked the outlet but after some vibration going down the road it doesn't work. I haven't done it but I wonder if it is possible to replace a self-contained outlet with a shallow box and traditional outlet?

Or obtain a new self contained outlet and install it? We will be checking the outlet today to see if we can identify the issue.

[Iowa Dave]

Back in the day when We had 28 rental rental pavilions in the park system. We renovated every one of them one, at a time with a new panel, serving counter, lighting and at least 8 20 amp circuits. Every beaker in the box was a ground fault breaker. It worked great for us. We used a self designed 3/8 plate steel lockable enclosure for both the serving counter outlets and the panel. Never had anyone get electricity without a rental but many tried. We had a lock over the counter cover. If vandals chopped the lock and opened the little door they found a recessed bolt securing the access. We used a regular hex head bolt and ground it so it only had 5 sides. Then we used a “water key” curb stop socket welded onto a regular 1/2 inch extension to turn the bolt.
I’m sure they ( the great unknown vandal and electricity thief) might have been heard to say “Rats, foiled again.” or something like that. All code, all union electricians, all inspected. all Square D panels made in my home town at the time.
Vandalism in city parks is a huge problem.
Iowa Dave

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

For those of us with absorption refrigerators the 120V outlet is in the vented cavity that could see some moisture. I have wondered if this should technically be a GFI outlet.

Going through the latest NEC code, you can use a GFCI but it is not required. Siince the fridge outlet is not "readily accessible" and a dedicated circuit, NEC code does not require it to be a GFCI - same as the fridge outlet in your home.

But again, it doesn't hurt to be a GFCI. What the outlet should be is a outdoor weatherproof outlet as it is exposed to splashing water.

Of course, mine is now in a outdoor weatherproof box with a regular outlet receptacle. I had to change it after the original got wet and burned.

https://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-Bell-.../dp/B0044FQX0I
https://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-Raco-.../dp/B003A47SXU

[Ooshkaboo]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

For those of us with absorption refrigerators the 120V outlet is in the vented cavity that could see some moisture. I have wondered if this should technically be a GFI outlet.

When it comes to a GFI in a RV I don’t know what is required or by whom, but I do know a little about residential requirements.

In certain municipalities a GFI is required on all outside outlets and any interior outlets that are within 6 feet of a water faucet or shower head.
City Inspectors have to come into the property and sign off on this each time a new tenet is to move in.

A refrigerator isn’t required to have a GFI, I have installed new single plug outlets so as to avoid having a refrigerator plugged into a GFI.
This is to prevent the GFI outlet from switching off and food going bad.

I also use these single plug outlets to plug garbage disposals into, these outlets are right under the kitchen sinks and can be a pain to crawl under when the GFI has flipped off.
Both of these locations pass the inspections and avoid unnecessary future problems from a GFI.

Many refrigerators in your home are not compatible with GFI outlets, seems motors and GFI outlets don’t care for each other.
I stopped keeping track of which fridge is or isint and just and just use single dedicated line outlets for fridges and garbage disposals.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by kathytony1985

Or obtain a new self contained outlet and install it? We will be checking the outlet today to see if we can identify the issue.

Yes that would be the easiest. Starting with a new self-contained outlet is probably the best bet depending on what you find. Since you are under warranty Escape should send you a new one. Could always do something different later if you felt the need. Sorry my brain always goes to what I think would be the ideal long term solution.

[kathytony1985]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

I haven't done it but I wonder if it is possible to replace a self-contained outlet with a shallow box and traditional outlet?

We were wondering the same thing?

[kathytony1985]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Sorry my brain always goes to what I think would be the ideal long term solution.

Nothing wrong with that thinking! The whole point of getting that extra outlet is so we can plug in our induction cooktop. So if it doesn't work what is the point of having it? Right? We're going to eliminate every scenario before we contact ETI to see about getting a new outlet, or just go buy one at Home Depot and not have to wait on them.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by kathytony1985

Nothing wrong with that thinking! The whole point of getting that extra outlet is so we can plug in our induction cooktop. So if it doesn't work what is the point of having it? Right? We're going to eliminate every scenario before we contact ETI to see about getting a new outlet, or just go buy one at Home Depot and not have to wait on them.

For a high draw device like an induction cooktop it might be best to consider a traditional outlet if you can. Better contact area on the connections. I have seen examples of poor connections and arching inside the self-contained outlets. You'll see what I mean if you do a google search. Just an FYI I don't think a place like Home Depot sells self-contained outlets anyway but I could be wrong.