Outlet blown

[padlin]

On my 5.0TA there is one for just outlets, and another that is for outlets, the fridge, and the MW. I had double checked with Reace when I noticed it marked as such and he verified that's the way it is. Seems he ran up one side of the trailer with one circuit and up the other with the 2nd.

[gmchamplin]

In October we visited ETI and looked at the demo 2016 5.0TA. I took a picture of the electrical panel.

I read this as:
AC:
30A - Main
15A - DC Converter & Refrigerator
15A - 115AC Outlets
15A - 115AC Outlets
20A - Water Heater & Air Conditioner

DC:
20A - Refrigerator
15A - Lights
15A - Lights
15A - 12VDC Outlets
15A - Furnace, water pump, DSI

I don't know what "DSI" is.

Here is the picture.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by gmchamplin

In October we visited ETI and looked at the demo 2016 5.0TA. I took a picture of the electrical panel.

I read this as:
AC:
30A - Main
15A - DC Converter & Refrigerator
15A - 115AC Outlets
15A - 115AC Outlets
20A - Water Heater & Air Conditioner

DC:
20A - Refrigerator
15A - Lights
15A - Lights
15A - 12VDC Outlets
15A - Furnace, water pump, DSI

I don't know what "DSI" is.

Here is the picture.

DSI is the electronic ignition for the water heater. I have to question putting the AC AND water heater on the same 20 amp breaker. Both are at least 15 amp loads, and it is conceivable that they would both be on at the same time...

[freespirit]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

I have to question putting the AC AND water heater on the same 20 amp breaker. Both are at least 15 amp loads, and it is conceivable that they would both be on at the same time...

this camper would question that also....assuming they both pull more than 20A...if so perhaps they did that on purpose..if you have both AC and water heater on at the same time and they pull more than 20A, the branch breaker trips before the 30A main trips...thus training the user to make a choice...perhaps someone with a trailer wired that way can verify that.
These also appear to be thermal magnetic breakers stacked vertically versus fully magnetic breakers...

With limited feed though the whole ac portion for the trailer probably should be on a big funky rotary selector switch with one 120VAC item on at a time..assuming you want to use the AC with anything else at the same time.

since wiring is in many cases not easy to change due to location, bundling and obstructions...seems best to ask 1st then make recommendations if necessary before construction....

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

I have to question putting the AC AND water heater on the same 20 amp breaker. Both are at least 15 amp loads, and it is conceivable that they would both be on at the same time...

This can't be right. My guess is that it is mislabeled. Maybe all the outlets are on one 15A circuit, the HW electric element is on a 15A and the AC is on the 20A.

[float5]

I believe we have made it a point not to use the water heater when the A/C is on. We see the amps used on our EMS. We do, however, have a habit of turning off the water heater to run other high-draws. Our water heater is mostly off.

That EMS showing amps is one very useful item. One has to use that reading though.

I have seen 13, 14, 15 for the A/C and maybe higher.

[cpaharley2008]

It may be wired that way for those without the optional electric water heater, which is what I have. If that option is elected other wiring may be done.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

It may be wired that way for those without the optional electric water heater, which is what I have. If that option is elected other wiring may be done.

On our 17B, we had the dual fuel option on the water heater and the water heater had it own circuit breaker. I clearly remember that because I would switch that breaker off whenever I drained the water heater.

[float5]

There is no telling that what they did in 2009 is what they are doing now. They have changed just about everything! They will have to say if that is stilll the case.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by freespirit

this camper would question that also....assuming they both pull more than 20A...if so perhaps they did that on purpose..if you have both AC and water heater on at the same time and they pull more than 20A, the branch breaker trips before the 30A main trips...thus training the user to make a choice...perhaps someone with a trailer wired that way can verify that.
These also appear to be thermal magnetic breakers stacked vertically versus fully magnetic breakers...

With limited feed though the whole ac portion for the trailer probably should be on a big funky rotary selector switch with one 120VAC item on at a time..assuming you want to use the AC with anything else at the same time.

since wiring is in many cases not easy to change due to location, bundling and obstructions...seems best to ask 1st then make recommendations if necessary before construction....

Instantaneous. trip breakers ( magnetic ) are used mainly in industrial applications . Thermal magnetic breakers are the industry standard . The thermal portion provides overcurrent protection and the magnetic portion provides short circuit protection.
Thermal magnetic breakers also are time delay.
Circuit breakers are sized based on the ampacity of the branch circuit conductors . The branch circuit conductors are sized for the load being served .
The water heater and A/C would not be placed on the same breaker in order to perform load shedding. ( They are not dissimilar loads)
When doing load calculation for a building which has electric heat and A/C you only need to provide for the larger of the two loads because the heating and cooling systems will not run simultaneously.
RV wiring is not required to meet the residential code provisions of the NEC. That's why Escape can get by with installing only one 15 amp circuit in the kitchen area vs the two ( minimum) 20 amp kitchen appliance circuits required in a residence

[War Eagle]

Regardless, it should be relatively easy for anyone to test on their own individual trailer just to be sure. Simply flip a breaker off and see what doesn't work. If the label is wrong, correct it. Our current house was a mess when we first moved in. I finally just ripped off all the old labels in the breaker boxes, tested everything, and re-labeled all the breakers correctly. Found out the previous owners (more likely a local contractor they hired) did some VERY creative wiring when they took out a couple walls in the kitchen to build a kitchen island. The mislabels could have proved dangerous....

[keager]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

It may be wired that way for those without the optional electric water heater, which is what I have. If that option is elected other wiring may be done.

I think Jim has it right. A single 20A breaker for the water heater and A/C can only be for a gas only water heater. The electric option (which we have) has those two loads on their own breakers, 15A for the water heater and 20A for the A/C. In the place of the single 20A breaker pictured is another dual half height breaker pair 15A/20A. An electric option water heater and the A/C cannot share a single circuit breaker.
What I don't understand is what a gas only water heater would need 120V for at all. It has to be a 12V appliance so that it works when camping without 120V shore power. I would speculate that maybe the circuit breaker labeling could be standard across trailers, or, more likely the wrong label got installed. No matter what, something is not quite right there ...

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by keager

What I don't understand is what a gas only water heater would need 120V for at all. It has to be a 12V appliance so that it works when camping without 120V shore power.

Gas only water heater doesn't need 120V. That's the point. This was a demo trailer so it probably just had the breakers mislabeled.

[Vermilye]

There is another possibility - I've seen trailers with a heavy duty switch after the breaker that switches between the A/C & the water heater. You can do either, but not both...

[dayshe]

Originally Posted by dayshe

Thank you to everyone who has posted a reply to my question on the forum! I will be tinkering this weekend with various options and will let you all know what works..

Well, I checked the surge protector as Donna D. suggested (and perhaps others) and found that they had done their job- one flipped off. When returned to the on position, power returned. I learned from every response and continue to be in awe of the great help available on the forum! Thank you!

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by dayshe

Well, I checked the surge protector as Donna D. suggested (and perhaps others) and found that they had done their job- one flipped off. When returned to the on position, power returned. I learned from every response and continue to be in awe of the great help available on the forum! Thank you!

Please clarify for the curious minds. The EMS (which includes surge protection) does not have any breakers/switches as I understand. As Donna indicated in her post: "If you have an on board surge protector, there's a breaker box as the power comes into the trailer. On Ten Forward, there are two breakers in a gray box under the dinette (drivers side)." So you found a gray box and it was one of the two aforementioned breakers that tripped?? If so this is interesting because one would presume these are rated higher than the individual breaker on the circuit in the WFCO power center through which the power is routed.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Please clarify for the curious minds. The EMS (which includes surge protection) does not have any breakers/switches as I understand. As Donna indicated in her post: "If you have an on board surge protector, there's a breaker box as the power comes into the trailer. On Ten Forward, there are two breakers in a gray box under the dinette (drivers side)." So you found a gray box and it was one of the two aforementioned breakers that tripped?? If so this is interesting because one would presume these are rated higher than the individual breaker on the circuit in the WFCO power center through which the power is routed.

Nevermind. Figured it out with the help of a friend. The gray box with 2 breakers is furnished on trailers with optional inverter and transfer switch. Independent of having an EMS ("surge protector") or not. This gray box is wired in downstream of the WFCO power center to feed outlets and thus has a breaker rating and propensity to trip that now makes sense without affecting other items in the trailer (besides outlets on common circuit). No built-in EMS or inverter on our trailer so was having a little trouble understanding what was going on here.

[steve dunham]

Since you have a common load ( receptacles) fed from 2 separately derived sources ( Utility & Inverter ) you need some means of keeping the power sources isolated. This can be accomplished with an isolation relay or a mechanical transfer switch .
Otherwise the inverter could backfeed voltage through the circuit conductors and the exposed metal blades on the male cord cap of the service entrance cord could become energized .
Also the utility sine wave and the inverter sign wave are not in sync plus inverters often do not produce a pure sine wave.
It appears that Escape is installing the inverter wiring as it should be installed to prevent electrical damage and provide for personnal safety.

[Rossue]

So after reading all this and knowing not to overload one circuit I pushed the lever down on the toaster (first trip with it) while the coffee pot on. Heard the inverter groan and immediately lifted toaster arm but circuit was dead. Thankfully all it took was to reset the 15 amp breaker. Seems like that is all that should happen- no?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Rossue

So after reading all this and knowing not to overload one circuit I pushed the lever down on the toaster (first trip with it) while the coffee pot on. Heard the inverter groan and immediately lifted toaster arm but circuit was dead. Thankfully all it took was to reset the 15 amp breaker. Seems like that is all that should happen- no?

If all you did was reset a 15A breaker in a separate gray sub-panel that is part of the inverter wiring arrangement, then yes, that is what we concluded was done to solve the problem identified in the original post. Nothing to do with an EMS or the breakers in the WFCO power center.