Partial Electrical Failure

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

You are almost correct!

Oops. The devil is in the details! Thanks for clarifying before someone may have purchased the wrong breaker.

[Tonny LR]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

You are almost correct!

Since Canada doesn't follow the same electrical codes as NEC, the breaker box Escape installed in my trailer is a non-CTL box. (illegal in the US since 1965) That big Canadian maple leaf should have been a hint - I bought the ones you linked at first and had to take them back.

So I had to install two non-CTL 15 amp tandem breakers.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-BR...1515/100121768

Hi Tom,
I need your help. I bought one, not two BR1515 breaker as specified in your last post from Lowes, not available at HD, and installed it along side the exiting breaker without problem. Now I have no power to the trailer. Surge protector showed no errors and I heard a click when electricity kicked in. Not able to reset the only external GFCI. Upon detailed assessment, I noticed that the existing ETI breaker is a BD1515 model. Is the loss of electrical power to the trailer due to mismatching breaker or something else. Please advise. Thank you!

Tonny LR

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Tonny LR

Hi Tom,
I need your help. I bought one, not two BR1515 breaker as specified in your last post from Lowes, not available at HD, and installed it along side the exiting breaker without problem. Now I have no power to the trailer. Surge protector showed no errors and I heard a click when electricity kicked in. Not able to reset the only external GFCI. Upon detailed assessment, I noticed that the existing ETI breaker is a BD1515 model. Is the loss of electrical power to the trailer due to mismatching breaker or something else. Please advise. Thank you!

Tonny LR

WARNING: If you don't know how to use a voltmeter and aren't familiar with working with 120v circuits - STOP and get someone to help you that does.

I'm assuming you are working in the small subpanel and you have already made sure that the breaker in the WFCO marked "Sub Panel" is on and reset.

Below are pics of the Hot, neutral buss, and the ground buss - yours should look like these (note: I have the breakers pulled in these pics showing the buss bars they plug into). Of course, make sure the breaker in the WFCO feeding the panel is off before working on it.

The first pic show the romex coming from the transfer switch going to the breaker buss bars. The second pic shows the black wire coming from the transfer switch connected to the lower breaker Hot buss and a black jumper from the lower hot buss to the upper hot buss. Both busses should measure 120V AC to neutral when the breaker in the WFCO for the subpanel is on.

The four romex shown entering the box in the second pic are the ones getting power from the breaker box. Each black wire goes to a breaker with the white to neutral and copper to ground. With four breakers, each black wire would connect to a breaker. With only three breakers, two of the circuits will have to be pigtailed and connected to a breaker - the other two connecting to a breaker each.

Now turn off power to the subpanel and plug all the breakers in. With a voltmeter on AC, turn on the breakers, measure the voltage on the breaker out, and insure that the breakers are putting out 120v.

[Tonny LR]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

WARNING: If you don't know how to use a voltmeter and aren't familiar with working with 120v circuits - STOP and get someone to help you that does.

I'm assuming you are working in the small subpanel and you have already made sure that the breaker in the WFCO marked "Sub Panel" is on and reset.

Below are pics of the Hot, neutral buss, and the ground buss - yours should look like these (note: I have the breakers pulled in these pics showing the buss bars they plug into). Of course, make sure the breaker in the WFCO feeding the panel is off before working on it.

The first pic show the romex coming from the transfer switch going to the breaker buss bars. The second pic shows the black wire coming from the transfer switch connected to the lower breaker Hot buss and a black jumper from the lower hot buss to the upper hot buss. Both busses should measure 120V AC to neutral when the breaker in the WFCO for the subpanel is on.

The four romex shown entering the box in the second pic are the ones getting power from the breaker box. Each black wire goes to a breaker with the white to neutral and copper to ground. With four breakers, each black wire would connect to a breaker. With only three breakers, two of the circuits will have to be pigtailed and connected to a breaker - the other two connecting to a breaker each.

Now turn off power to the subpanel and plug all the breakers in. With a voltmeter on AC, turn on the breakers, measure the voltage on the breaker out, and insure that the breakers are putting out 120v.

Hello Tom,
I am sorry for bothering you. I did not have the trailer connected to shore power when I was working on it, so there is no risk for electrocution. The small panel I am working on is exactly the same as shown in your pictures. I made two mistakes by not turning the breaker in the WFCO feeding the panel off before working on the panel and the breaker in the WFCO marked "sub Panel" not turn on and reset when I was testing the power. I identified all the White Wires connecting to the bus bar and secured, all Ground Wires connected to the ground bus bar and secured and I connected each Black Wires to each the breaker terminal. I will get expert help later. To be safe, I will get another BR1515 breaker so that both breaker are identical and not use the ETI breaker although they looked the same. I wondered that if the mismatched breaker causing the problem. Thank for all your help.

Tonny LR

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Tonny LR

Hello Tom,
I am sorry for bothering you. I did not have the trailer connected to shore power when I was working on it, so there is no risk for electrocution. The small panel I am working on is exactly the same as shown in your pictures. I made two mistakes by not turning the breaker in the WFCO feeding the panel off before working on the panel and the breaker in the WFCO marked "sub Panel" not turn on and reset when I was testing the power. I identified all the White Wires connecting to the bus bar and secured, all Ground Wires connected to the ground bus bar and secured and I connected each Black Wires to each the breaker terminal. I will get expert help later. To be safe, I will get another BR1515 breaker so that both breaker are identical and not use the ETI breaker although they looked the same. I wondered that if the mismatched breaker causing the problem. Thank for all your help.

Tonny LR

No problem, I just want to make sure you don't get yourself hurt. It sounds like you are on the right path - and just lack finishing up.

All the neutrals (white) go to the neutral buss. All the grounds (copper) go to the ground buss. The transfer switch out goes to the sub panel box hot buss and each breaker then goes to the circuits. I have attached a section of my electrical drawing that matched what you are working on.

[tdf-texas]

In case you need it, here is the whole drawing.

[Tonny LR]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

No problem, I just want to make sure you don't get yourself hurt. It sounds like you are on the right path - and just lack finishing up.

All the neutrals (white) go to the neutral buss. All the grounds (copper) go to the ground buss. The transfer switch out goes to the sub panel box hot buss and each breaker then goes to the circuits. I have attached a section of my electrical drawing that matched what you are working on.

Hello Tom<
Thank you for taking time to disconnect your trailer breakers and posted the nice pictures. You are extremely kind and helpful and I appreciated you. I will get another BR1515 breaker today and check the connections of the lower and upper hot bus bars and the black jumper. Turn off all breakers and power before working on them. I will enlist help from knowledgeable friends to test the new breaker switches by checking the voltage. Be safe from Covid 19 pandemic.
Tonny LR

[Tonny LR]

Originally Posted by Tonny LR

Hello Tom,
I am sorry for bothering you. I did not have the trailer connected to shore power when I was working on it, so there is no risk for electrocution. The small panel I am working on is exactly the same as shown in your pictures. I made two mistakes by not turning the breaker in the WFCO feeding the panel off before working on the panel and the breaker in the WFCO marked "sub Panel" not turn on and reset when I was testing the power. I identified all the White Wires connecting to the bus bar and secured, all Ground Wires connected to the ground bus bar and secured and I connected each Black Wires to each the breaker terminal. I will get expert help later. To be safe, I will get another BR1515 breaker so that both breaker are identical and not use the ETI breaker although they looked the same. I wondered that if the mismatched breaker causing the problem. Thank for all your help.

Tonny LR

Hello Tom,
The good news is that I got another BR1515 breaker and installed it. The two breakers are identical now. Do you mind let me know the gauge of the jumper wire that you used to connect the lower and upper Hot (black) bus. I am trying to be very careful and use the correct gauge wire to avoid over heating . Thank you.

Tonny LR

[Tonny LR]

I found out the wire used is ROMEX® SIMpull ® NMD90 copper. They are 14/2 gauge copper wire.

Tonny LR

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Tonny LR

I found out the wire used is ROMEX® SIMpull ® NMD90 copper. They are 14/2 gauge copper wire.

Tonny LR

A 30 amp circuit has to be at least 10 gauge wire. So the jumper between the two hot buss should be 10 gauge. If you look at the first pic in my previous post, the wire coming in on the right side of the subpanel is larger than the 14/2 that feeds the 15 amp circuits on the breakers.

The jacket color codes for NM cable is white - (14 gauge) 15 amp, yellow - (12 gauge) 20 amp, orange - (10 gauge) 30 amp. It looks like Escape ran 10 gauge wire for the transfer switch to subpanel.

[Tonny LR]

Hello Tom,
I would like to report that Circuits Breakers were installed successfully and worked properly when tested. I happened to use a 10/2 gauge wire as a jumper. I bought a foot length of it from Lowes. I would like to let you know that I could not have done it without your help. I also like to thank you for the breakers installation instructions and pictures. Take good care of yourself and be safe from Covid 19 pandemic. I would like to echo Tom's warning that do not attempt to do this mod unless you have experience and knowledge on working with Electricity.

Tonny LR

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Tonny LR

Hello Tom,
I would like to report that Circuits Breakers were installed successfully and worked properly when tested. I happened to use a 10/2 gauge wire as a jumper. I bought a foot length of it from Lowes. I would like to let you know that I could not have done it without your help. I also like to thank you for the breakers installation instructions and pictures. Take good care of yourself and be safe from Covid 19 pandemic. I would like to echo Tom's warning that do not attempt to do this mod unless you have experience and knowledge on working with Electricity.

Tonny LR

Good to hear that all is well. And congratulations on finishing your new mod!

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Tonny LR

I happened to use a 10/2 gauge wire as a jumper. I bought a foot length of it from Lowes.

Glad this got resolved but I have a couple questions. Was the lack of jumper the issue? If so, how did changing from two single breakers to two double breakers make any difference? I’m assuming the jumper was required in the sub-panel originally to connect the lower and upper hot buss with the factory configuration.

[Tonny LR]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Glad this got resolved but I have a couple questions. Was the lack of jumper the issue? If so, how did changing from two single breakers to two double breakers make any difference? I’m assuming the jumper was required in the sub-panel originally to connect the lower and upper hot buss with the factory configuration.

The jumper is necessary to connect lower and upper hot buss terminal for the new breaker to receive power. The difference is that the microwave and the outlet below the fridge are wired in one circuit breaker. It won't tripped when microwave is being used and coffee pot/hair dryer plugs into kitchen outlet. The problem before was that I am not an electrician. That is a nice way of putting it.

Tonny LR

[Gori]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Ok, There is a small breaker box under your dinette that has two breakers in it. Escape wires the microwave, fridge, and some of the outlets all on one breaker - that would be the one that is tripped. Reset it and your power should be back.

I changed my trailer to have four breakers instead of two for this very reason. I was using the microwave at the same time my wife was using a hair blower - pop went the breaker.

ps. I know everyone is tired of hearing this - but NEC code says the microwave MUST be on a separate (dedicated) breaker. The microwave powered along with other devices is a violation of code.

What if the Kitchen outlets won't come back on even after you flip the two breakers? My inverter is working fine, and only the kitchen outlets won't work. I spilled some water in the kitchen and now I have no outlets. Please advise if you have any solution for me. I have a college aged daughter who likes to eat. : )

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Gori

What if the Kitchen outlets won't come back on even after you flip the two breakers? My inverter is working fine, and only the kitchen outlets won't work. I spilled some water in the kitchen and now I have no outlets. Please advise if you have any solution for me. I have a college aged daughter who likes to eat. : )

Try resetting the GFCI outlet. You likely have one on the exterior of the trailer and possibly another inside below the galley counter since it is a newer trailer. When a GFI outlet is wired prior (closer to power source) to other normal outlets it will interrupt power to all outlets further down the line. You need to hit the small reset button on the receptacle.

[Gori]

BINGO! It was the outside one. Of course I had pulled all the cushions first, and move all my work stuff. But we're back in business now and my daughter's lunch has been saved. Thank you. Gori

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Gori

BINGO! It was the outside one. Of course I had pulled all the cushions first, and move all my work stuff. But we're back in business now and my daughter's lunch has been saved. Thank you. Gori

No problem. Gets people all the time. It is not very intuitive that the exterior outlet would be wired before a bunch of the interior outlets for protection. Plus some rarely use the outside outlet so it’s easy to forget it’s even there. FYI the exterior outlet can trip on its own (with or without something plugged in) if exposed to high levels of moisture. Have heard it on the forum before and it happened to us once.