Poor ride

[Locker]

We have an older 17' Escape single torsion tube axle of coarse. Rides horrible on all roads, especially on gravel roads which is where my wife and I like to travel. We wanted a 19' with tandem axles to smooth out the ride but this was a good deal so I will deal with it. What I'm considering is installing an axle with long leaf springs out of a mini van, small suv or p/u and shocks if needed. Has anyone done something like this and if so what parts did you use and how well did it work. Thanks

[gbaglo]

I've driven a lot of washboard and rutted roads, without any issues to do with ride or anything else. You might want to consider issues with your tow vehicle and consider installing a weight distribution hitch, if you don't already use one.
BTW, you need to edit your profile.
Oh, and tandem axles don't smooth the ride. They just double the number of times you hit the bump.

[skyfree]

Consider putting a lift on it then some larger A/T tires with more sidewall and air them down when you are on dirt roads.

I would think that using leaf springs would also require having shock absorbers. It's the shocks that smooth out the ride working along with springs.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by skyfree

Consider putting a lift on it then some larger A/T tires with more sidewall and air them down when you are on dirt roads.

I would think that using leaf springs would also require having shock absorbers. It's the shocks that smooth out the ride working along with springs.

Having leaf springs does NOT require shocks. The early 5.0TAs have leaf springs without shocks. If I recall correctly, there is/was a kit to put shocks on Casitas which many owners did and reported it made the ride smoother. But shocks are not a necessity on trailers with leaf springs.

[Rossue]

You may need a new Torflex axle; they do have a lifespan. I like them and they ride smoother than a leaf spring setup.

[skyfree]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

Having leaf springs does NOT require shocks. The early 5.0TAs have leaf springs without shocks. If I recall correctly, there is/was a kit to put shocks on Casitas which many owners did and reported it made the ride smoother. But shocks are not a necessity on trailers with leaf springs.

I didn't say it was not possible to just have leaf springs -- just that it is required for a smooth ride.

I just went through this on my truck working with an off-road suspension specialist, Filthy Motorsports for a King shock upgrade. For corrugated dirt roads you will need aggressive shock damping (especially rebound) if you want an improved ride.

Corrugations and small rocks are particularly responsive to airing down though, and it's a much simpler, cheaper route to go.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by skyfree

I didn't say it was not possible to just have leaf springs -- just that it is required for a smooth ride.

I just went through this on my truck working with an off-road suspension specialist, Filthy Motorsports for a King shock upgrade. For corrugated dirt roads you will need aggressive shock damping (especially rebound) if you want an improved ride.

Corrugations and small rocks are particularly responsive to airing down though, and it's a much simpler, cheaper route to go.

With all due respect, I understand and agree. But the following sentence from your original post would seem to indicate that you were implying that leaf springs would “require having shock absorbers.” All I was saying is that there are many trailers in use with leaf springs sans shock absorbers. Both my leaf springed 5.0TA and utility trailer ride smoothly enough in the absence of shock absorbers.

Originally Posted by skyfree

I would think that using leaf springs would also require having shock absorbers.

[edlynnrich]

I’ve recently seen several references to airing down tires when on rough or gravel roads. Is that pretty much universally recommended and how much would you reduce tire pressure? I’m guessing the TV tires would also be aired down?

[Brian B-P]

Suspension needs damping, which means absorbing the energy of suspension motion to keep it from bouncing. This is normally done with shock absorbers (of various kinds, but normally telescopic hydraulic things).

Leaf springs without shocks get damping from either multiple leaves sliding on each other as the spring pack flexes (as with an early 5.0TA), or with only one leaf but with one end of the leaf sliding in a bracket (mostly on really cheap utility trailers). This isn't good enough for a car or light truck or good trailer, so shocks are used as well. My large fifth-wheel trailer came with shocks; I added shocks to my Boler and it made a huge difference.

Rubber-sprung independent suspensions (such as the Dexter Torflex used by Escape) without shocks get their damping from the inherent hysteresis in the rubber. This is better than a leaf springs with just inter-leaf friction, but it still isn't good enough for a motor vehicle or really good ride and control in a trailer. European trailer suspensions like this (such as from AL-KO) have optional shock absorbers, and there have been kits to add shocks to Dexter and similar suspensions.

A trailer should have shocks, but before adding them or resorting to completely replacing the suspension with an inferior design, it would make sense to me to check the condition of the existing suspension - it may just need to replaced with one with new rubber, as already mentioned.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by skyfree

Consider putting a lift on it then some larger A/T tires with more sidewall and air them down when you are on dirt roads.

Originally Posted by edlynnrich

I’ve recently seen several references to airing down tires when on rough or gravel roads. Is that pretty much universally recommended and how much would you reduce tire pressure? I’m guessing the TV tires would also be aired down?

On any road surface, reasonably low tire pressure will help ride and even tire traction (and therefore handling), but too low damages tires and hurts stability.

The load/inflation tables established by the tire industry standards organizations and published by most tire manufactures set the minimum pressure for each combination of tire size and load carried. A larger tire will have a lower minimum pressure for the same load carried. A little higher than that minimum is advisable.

It is possible to run too-low pressure at low speed, counting on the heat buildup and tire damage due to inadequate inflation being tolerable because of the low speed (high speed means more heat), but that seems extreme and risky to me.

The tow vehicle and trailer have different sizes and construction of tires, carrying different loads. The pressure decisions for each are controlled by similar factors, but there's no reason to expect them to result in the same pressure. Most trailers have relatively small tires compared to the trailer weight so they use relatively high pressure.

Many people simply inflate trailer tires to the maximum pressure shown on the sidewall, regardless of load, when this is much more than required for the trailer load with that size of tire, the result is unnecessarily harsh ride (and poor traction).

There have been many discussions of tire inflation in this forum and probably every other forum for trailers - there's probably no point in repeating the process.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Oh, and tandem axles don't smooth the ride. They just double the number of times you hit the bump.

To be fair, there are twice as many bumps but they are each less severe.

[edlynnrich]

I didn’t realize that there were load tables with min. and max. pressures. I’ve always gone by the pressure given on each particular vehicle by the manufacturer. Thanks for that. I’ll check it out.

[Upfisk]

Define older Escape 17, how old? We had an older Casita, it bounced so bad on our rutted dirt road it was nearly airborne. The Casita forum, which never allows criticism of Casita trailers, told me it was a mental problem on my part. I called Dexter. They told me a torsion axle over 10 years old more than likely was worn out. The internal rubber gets stiff and breaks. We replaced our Casita's torsion axle and it really made a difference. A new axle was $600 shipped to AZ, installing was around 1.5 hrs of shop time.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by edlynnrich

I didn’t realize that there were load tables with min. and max. pressures. I’ve always gone by the pressure given on each particular vehicle by the manufacturer. Thanks for that. I’ll check it out.

I think most people are not aware of them, because for their cars and trucks they (correctly) follow the vehicle manufacturer's direction (which is based on the same tables, plus additional factors and testing). Unfortunately, trailer manufacturers generally don't bother to work out an optimal pressure, and just direct the owner to inflate to whatever the original tires had for a maximum.

The tables just give the minimum pressure; the maximum pressure doesn't depend on load, and is shown on the sidewall.

This is Goodyear's set of tables for RVs:
Load/Inflation Information
The "trailer" (ST) tire table is the first one. It's the same for all brands of ST tires.

[dstreight]

Having experienced a failed Torflex on our 15A last year, it accelerated my longer term plan to convert to leaf spring suspension given our attraction to travel into remote lands where its typically a rough ride to/fro and within.

OME/ARB LandCruiser 60-Series leaf pack (~44") with overloads with Bilstein shocks has made all the difference in the world. Count me as one of a very few in here that is not a fan of Torflex, however I think our application is much different too.

It all works great. But, no way would I want the typical short leaf spring length of the RV trailer world...they are what gives a bad rap for leafs.

[Doug2000]

I’m not sure if the age of your 17B, but I had a 2007 17B pulled by a new 4Runner at the time. Using a WDH, you couldn’t tell it was back there. If your not using a WDH, get one then weigh your truck and trailer on the CAT scales ensuring 10 to 15 percent tongue weight. You shouldn’t have to do anything to the Blazer.

My friend bought a 1977 Trillium that came stock with a Torflex axle. He talked about how badly it towed. Someone removed the Torflex and put leaf springs on it. I followed him one day leaving the campground and that thing bounced all over the place. No wonder he hated towing. I would never buy a trailer with leaf springs, it’s just another corner cut by big manufacturers to make cheaper trailers.


Side note, I had no problem getting my 17B to tow well, my 2020 Escape 19 is another story.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by edlynnrich

I didn’t realize that there were load tables with min. and max. pressures. I’ve always gone by the pressure given on each particular vehicle by the manufacturer. Thanks for that. I’ll check it out.

Hi: edlynnrich... I aired down my new Goodtear Endurance load range D 205/15's to 45#. At the tires max 65psi the trailer was a mess inside on arrival... cushions everywhere!!! Much too harsh!!! We also have leaf springs w/equilizers but no shocks. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

A trailer should have shocks, but before adding them or resorting to completely replacing the suspension with an inferior design, it would make sense to me to check the condition of the existing suspension - it may just need to replaced with one with new rubber, as already mentioned.

I agree in principle. In practical terms, it may cost the same or less to replace a worn-out torsion axle with a spring axle plus shocks. And the latter might be more readily available (shorter wait time). This last fact can become crucial in emergency situations, such as a badly damaged axle in the middle of a trip; a torsion axle may take months, but spring axles are relatively common and often can be searched out and obtained in a day or so (athough Covid has had an adverse affect on supplies).

Another factor is the planned usage pattern. Torsion axles are good when they are used regularly; when sitting idle for long periods, the rubber can be affected adversely. Springs are relatively unaffected by long periods of disuse. (I have no idea how often the OP intends to use his Escape.)

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by dstreight

But, no way would I want the typical short leaf spring length of the RV trailer world...they are what gives a bad rap for leafs.

I would say the the problem is more like short springs, mounted at the wrong angle (relative heights of front and rear mounts are wrong), and lack of shocks. But yes, trailer suspensions are generally bad, including trailer leaf spring systems.

One amusing coincidence is that if the fabricator just slaps mounts on the frame without thinking (which is likely), the step up in the Escape frame will result in an accidentally desirable angle to the springs, as long as the front hanger lands on the main frame (it should with any single-axle Escape, and the rear hanger will always land on the higher rear extension).

For anyone not understanding this issue, just look under the back of a modern pickup truck and under a single-axle trailer with leaf springs, and note that all of the details are different.

[edlynnrich]

Thanks Alf. Escape recommends 50 psi for the 21c. I did a little google searching and found some recommendations for a 20% pressure reduction for gravel roads. So I’m thinking carrying 40 psi for roads such as the Dempster in the Yukon. Anyone have any thoughts on that?