Questions about options for 21' Escape

[chacojim]

What R value does the sprayed foam on underside of trailer provide? Any freezing problems in holding tanks with just the foam and not the heat pads?

With the solar panel and 1500 watt inverter what will work when not plugged into shore power? Will all electrical outlets; Microwave; refrigerator & hot water heater furnace work for how long? My guess is hot water & frig would best be on gas & AC would draw too much without shore power.

Our Casita can boondock for 4 or 5 nights with one battery as long as we are don't run AC. How long would two batteries in Escape function using only LED lights and 12 v water pump and limited use of MaxxFan? Does the 12 V battery (listed as a featured item) remain with the trailer if we get the dual 6 v batteries? Could they be harnessed together?

The grey water tank is about 4 gallons smaller than our Casita’s. After 5 days, I need to find a dump station. What’s the average time between emptying grey water tank assuming no showers were taken? Thanks for your information!

[Bill and Earline]

I'll try answering some of your questions. Other folks will be along shortly.
Don't know the R value of two inches of that foam, but maybe it can be found. We got the foam, but not the heat pads, since the pads would only be usable when connected. We boondocked two nights in 19F with no problems. The pads would also not be used when driving, when cold air would be most worrisome at 60mph.
In 2014 we had to specify that we wanted all outlets to be powered by the inverter. Not sure if that comes standard. That powers all outlets including the microwave, but not the AC. I assume the electric water heater is not powered by the inverter, but not sure.
Furnace doesn't use much electricity since it's just a fan that blows heat from the propane heater. You wouldn't want to run the fridge while boodocking, but you could. It runs on 12 volt, so wouldn't involve the inverter. Would run down the battery, for no good reason. Use propane unless you run out, or are on a ferry or somewhere you have to turn off the propane.

Water usage if tough to predict. Don't forget the old trick to put grey water down the toilet, since black tank rarely fills.
Bill

[thoer]

This site says closed cell spray foam like ETI uses is R6.5 per inch. I've seen between R5.5 and R7 listed elsewhere. You would need to know the exact type/brand ETI uses to be more precise as it can vary from one manufacturer to another and on the grade used.

No one can predict anyone else's water usage. Besides Bill's trick, we carry a 2 gallon bucket and when the grey gets close to full, I fill it a couple of times and make trips to a pit toilet to empty it. Good exercise!

[cpaharley2008]

Some of your questions you can answer yourself, the Escape 21 is no different in battery use than your Casita. So what do you use each day in battery will determine whether you need solar and dual six batteries plus an inverter to convert 12v to 120v for what? Your fresh and gray tanks are outside and if you get the foam enclosed, your black tank is under the bed. If you have hookups then you will have heat, otherwise your propane furnace will keep the trailer at the same as your Casita, depending on your thermostat setting.

[KarenH]

Originally Posted by chacojim

Does the 12 V battery (listed as a featured item) remain with the trailer if we get the dual 6 v batteries?

The dual 6V batteries are an upgrade and replace the one 12V battery.

[Mike Lewis]

If you have the solar panel and dual six-volt batteries, and will use only LED lights and the water pump, I think your batteries should last indefinitely. They should charge up to 100% every day. Well, unless you're parked under a rainforest canopy.

Regarding the gray water tank-- if I shower every other day my gray tank is good for about ten days. I use paper plates and avoid washing dishes as much as possible. If you can't/won't do that, you might be able to get rid of your dishwater somewhere else, as in the black tank or outside if permitted. Some people get the outside shower and wash dishes outside.

[KarenH]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

They should charge up to 100% every day. Well, unless you're parked under a rainforest canopy...

...or you camp in the PNW during the off season. The low off-season sun makes a huge difference in charge rate--if there's any charge at all. I've given up on my 95-watt roof panel and my 95-watt portable panel from November through March.

[Mike Lewis]

Regarding the inverter-- I have discovered that it will run for days on end, its performance being limited only by your battery capacity and charge level. It draws its own parasitic load of about an amp whether you're running anything else or not. You can use the microwave a couple of times daily via the inverter; it will "beeeeeep" when the battery charge decreases to a certain level but it will still work for a while. Don't get carried away though, or eventually it will kick off altogether when the battery charge gets low enough.

For instance: if your batteries are charged above 90% you can use the microwave for several minutes. If they are at 80%, you'll probably get the "beeeeep" but it will finish cooking. If they are at 60%, the inverter will beep then shut the power off after several seconds. I have a battery monitor so I go by percentage of charge; I don't know the corresponding voltage levels.

You are correct that the water heater and fridge should be on gas, and you can't use the A/C at all via the inverter. With the optional switch (I don't remember how it's described) all 120V outlets can be powered by the inverter.

Oh, and the furnace fan will draw power, so a string of chilly nights might keep your batteries from fully charging during the day via the solar panel.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Bill and Earline

In 2014 we had to specify that we wanted all outlets to be powered by the inverter. Not sure if that comes standard. That powers all outlets including the microwave, but not the AC. I assume the electric water heater is not powered by the inverter, but not sure.

The 1500W inverter option has two variations; either a single dedicated outlet (this outlet won’t have power when on shore power) or a transfer switch that powers all the trailer outlets. The second option will allow use of the built-in microwave. I can guarantee the electric water heater element at 1440W is not powered from the inverter. Again it is only the outlets. The fridge, water heater and furnace utilize 12V DC power for operational stuff (ignition, controls and fan) and should be on propane when off grid. The furnace you have no choice.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by KarenH

...or you camp in the PNW during the off season. The low off-season sun makes a huge difference in charge rate--if there's any charge at all. I've given up on my 95-watt roof panel and my 95-watt portable panel from November through March.

Yes, Karen is right-- I should have mentioned that the time of year makes a surprising difference on how well the panel works. If you are willing to do so, I think ETI will install two 160W panels now, and I think they will also install a port for an external panel. The more the better. Learning to manage solar power is an educational experience.

[chacojim]

Bill, You replied that the spray foam on your Escape is 2 inches thick. ETI says they spray 1/2 inch thick? I'm interested in preventing pipes & tanks from freezing in spring or fall camping. Not really planning on winter trips. I agree that the heat pads would not be worth it. Any further comments about thermal windows and extra insulation would also be helpful.
Jim

[cpaharley2008]

Jim,
The foam, be it 1/2 or 2" thick covers the underside of the trailer and the fresh and grey tanks. With heat on inside the trailer, this foam keeps the heat inside, thus the cold outside. You can put down carpet as well to keep the floor warmer, but the tanks are still exposed. The new style awning windows have no exposed frames to the weather, thus the frost inside issue has been eliminated. Between the extra insulation, the thermal windows, the foam underneath, the Escape, either 21 or 19 or 17 will all have the same benefit. Warmer and quieter and cooler and quieter, depending on season.

[thoer]

Jim, spray foam is very hard to precisely apply to an exactly specific depth. Ours varies a bit, but overall I think it is deeper than 1/2" in most places. The outlet of the fresh tank is deeper and that is the place most likely to freeze.

To put it in perspective, we camped with our 17 (with no underside insulation) in freezing temperatures - into the mid 20sF and as long as it warmed up well above freezing during the day we had no problems. We kept the heat on inside the trailer which helps as Jim describes above.

With the underside insulation on our 21 I would be very confident with temperatures in the 20sF, even briefly dipping into the teens, again, as long as it gets above freezing during the day. The heat in the trailer will also help warm the fresh water tank, especially with the spray foam helping it retain that heat.

[chacojim]

OK, Thanks for your information. We will place an order on Tuesday! Hope to see you on the road some day.

Jim