Riveting advice needed

[KirkB]

Hi,

I have 2 projects on my Escape to-do list that will need me to attempt the art of riveting for the first time in my life.

I want to remove and reinstall the furnace exhaust vent (Atwood 8012-II), and also replace the latch that holds the curved (airline) door from blowing shut.

The last time I pulled and reinstalled my furnace, the outside vent got pushed too far out and the caulking seal broke, so I want to reinstall and recaulk. If I have a riveting tool, I can remove the vent whenever I have to pull the furnace in the future.

The door latch part (door side) is weathered and disintegrating, I would like to replace it.

I have determined that I need blind (or Pop) rivets, but don't know what size or material I need for the Escape. I am assuming that all the rivets on the Escape are the same, it looks that way to me.

I will have to get a riveting gun/tool. None of them mention blind rivets, so maybe anything I get will work. Do I need anything better than a cheap manual riveter? I only need it for these projects, and anytime I need to pull my furnace in the future, likely easiest to remove and reinstall the outside vent.

I see a cheap Stanley Right Angle riveter ($C21.99), and also a Milwaukee Cordless Riveter ($C248.99), and a few options in between. I am thinking cheap is best, as long as it can be operated successfully by a noob.

Any suggestions or advice?

Thanks!

[Rockhead]

Have you considered a pneumatic rivet gun much cheaper

[T2S]

Unless you have very limited grip strength a manual rivet gun is all you need. Even with limited strength you can purchase a heavy duty rivet gun at Harbor freight that has more leverage. Of course the longer handles make it more difficult if you need to get into smaller spaces. I'll let the experts discuss what type of rivets you need as I haven't replaced any on our escape.

[Viajante]

Aluminum pop rivets, not steel, not stainless steel. Rivets have a "grip range". You will need about 3/16-1/4". After you drill out the old rivets you can probe the hole with a hooked wire to determine the thickness off the fitting and the shell combined . The grip range is less than the length of the rivet.

Rivets have a diameter corresponding to the diameter of the hole, not the diameter of the head. Again, you are probably looking at 3/16.

The Stanley manual riveter is fine. Keep the receipt because they can jam and need to be replaced.

The tool comes with interchangeable mandrels. Select the one that fits the nail size of the rivet,

When you drill out the old rivets remember that you are only drilling out the stem of the rivet, not the whole head.

Practice on a couple pieces of scrap aluminum. This all sounds more complicated than it is. You will be a pro after the second practice rivet.

Look at youtube.

Edit: aluminum pop rivets, 3/16” diameter, 1/8 - 1/4” grip range.

[Iowa Dave]

Here are a couple pictures of the pop rivet tool stuff I have. I note that the vinyl bag it came in was printed 40 years ago so once you buy a setup you ought to be set for life. My Pop Rivet tool is a Bostic from Emhart back then. Also in the photo are some threaded rivets which I’ve used occasionally when I need a threaded hole in wood or fiberglass for a small screw. On the back of the bag there’s a listing of the rivet sizes, and compositions available. Post #4 is correct for the pop rivets I’ve used on the Escape. If you can get to the back side of the rivet you can install an aluminum rivet with a backing plate (aluminum washer and under the washer a little butyl tape to seal the hole. The belly band uses 3/16 hole size by 1/4 grip range but you can’t get to the back of the rivet for a backing plate and really don’t need to. They are closed end rivets. It’s not rocket science, if it was I’d have to get my son over here to help me.
That’s been my experience, good luck and good camping
Iowa Dave

[Eggscape]

Don’t get me wrong as I have thousands of pop rivets but could you not use some nice Stainless Steel screws. I am not familiar with the application you explain but in case you have to redo it in the future. Since your in Canada, a screw with a nice slip resistant Robertson head would be nice.
If you really need to rivet then Princess Auto in Langley will have what you need. Any aluminium rivet will do…just dab the hole with a bit of the sealer your using.

[Carmel Clown]

Originally Posted by Viajante

Aluminum pop rivets, not steel, not stainless steel. Rivets have a "grip range". You will need about 3/16-1/4". After you drill out the old rivets you can probe the hole with a hooked wire to determine the thickness off the fitting and the shell combined . The grip range is less than the length of the rivet.

Rivets have a diameter corresponding to the diameter of the hole, not the diameter of the head. Again, you are probably looking at 3/16.

The Stanley manual riveter is fine. Keep the receipt because they can jam and need to be replaced.

The tool comes with interchangeable mandrels. Select the one that fits the nail size of the rivet,

When you drill out the old rivets remember that you are only drilling out the stem of the rivet, not the whole head.

Practice on a couple pieces of scrap aluminum. This all sounds more complicated than it is. You will be a pro after the second practice rivet.

Look at youtube.

Edit: aluminum pop rivets, 3/16” diameter, 1/8 - 1/4” grip range.

I was surprised how easy it is to drill out rivets when I had to do some maintenance on my horse trailer. I have arthritic hands and can still use a manual rivet gun, so don't spend a lot of money unless you see riveting in your future.

[Eggscape]

Here is a nice two handed riveter on sale today and tomorrow at Princess Auto. Comes with 5 heads.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Eggscape

Don’t get me wrong as I have thousands of pop rivets but could you not use some nice Stainless Steel screws. I am not familiar with the application you explain but in case you have to redo it in the future. Since your in Canada, a screw with a nice slip resistant Robertson head would be nice.
If you really need to rivet then Princess Auto in Langley will have what you need. Any aluminium rivet will do…just dab the hole with a bit of the sealer your using.

Beat me to it, if immovability is the name of the game, then sheet metal screws are the way to go.

The most inexpensive manual riveter is adequate for anything you'd have to do on an Escape. They only fall short if using 3/16" s/s rivets. Then a longer handle manual riveter or pneumatic or hydraulic is the way to go.

Ron

[John in Santa Cruz]

power riveters are great if you're riveting all day long every day.

[hugh]

Rivets are pretty forgiving, but if you've got some extras and some scrap material, I'd recommend drilling some holes and trying a few practice installs before doing the real thing. Being able to see both side so the material, will help you learn what a good rivet install "feels like". And if you end up with a bad install, you won't have to drill it out and start over.

[HABBERDABBER]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

power riveters are great if you're riveting all day long every day.

If you've ever tried to rivet a 3/16" S.S rivet, doing one makes for a long day. The Big guns are useful then.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

power riveters are great if you're riveting all day long every day.

Originally Posted by hugh

Rivets are pretty forgiving, but if you've got some extras and some scrap material, I'd recommend drilling some holes and trying a few practice installs before doing the real thing. Being able to see both side so the material, will help you learn what a good rivet install "feels like". And if you end up with a bad install, you won't have to drill it out and start over.

While I use my pneumatic riveter for large diameter and s/s rivets the thing that I don't like about it is there's no "feel" to it. Squeeze the trigger and wham, it's done. When using a manual riveter I like to start the squeeze, then release, move the riveter in closer and squeeze again until it snaps. I think it gives more chance that the two pieces are firmly pulled together.

Ron

[KirkB]

Hi, and thanks to all that have replied! I was away from the Forum today, so just catching up tonight. Hope you don't mind the shotgun reply to all in one.

@Rockhead, no I hadn't considered anything yet, I had just seen the two extremes on prices for riveting tools at KMS, so didn't know whether a low price tool would actually work for me, or whether a bigger investment was needed to get a good result.

@Eggscape's find at Princess Auto looks like it might have more leverage than the low end riveter ad I mentioned from KMS. Consensus seems to be that for occasional use, a low end tool will do. KMS and Princess Auto are 2 blocks away from each other in Langley, I will have to make a shopping trip tomorrow.

My guess is that blind or pop rivets are the norm these days, the days of two-sided rivets are gone.

@All, I think I understand the diameter and grip range dimensions from your comments. Thanks @Viajante, for the specs on Escape rivets. I will have to study a bit more about mandrels, I thought the mandrel was part of the rivet, and it broke off when the rivet flattened tight.

I will be very careful when drilling out rivets, to only drill out the 'neck' of the rivet, not the outside diameter.

Thanks for the tip about practicing, I am guessing that with some practice, you can 'feel' the rivet snap or pop or whatever it does when it closes tight. if it doesn't feel right, then maybe a different size is needed for a secure fit.

I was looking at a post the other day, I think on the fibreglass forum, about removing the outside furnace vent on the 8012-II Atwood. (Doing some checking before ordering some new sail switches - from PDX RV I think.) I noticed that the outside furnace vent was held on with screws on SOB (Casita?), not rivets like on the Escape. If I understand @Iowa Dave's message, I can drill out the rivet, and replace it with a threaded rivet that will take a screw to make removal of the vent easier in the future. Removing the outside vent cover will make any future sail switch maintenance a simpler task. Just ask Shelley, she gets to push on the vent cover to keep it from ripping off while I reinstall the furnace.

@IowaDave - they don't make things like they used to, do they. I enjoy all your posts on the Forum!

For my other job, the door bracket, I plan to replace with rivets to fit.

Thanks again for all the helpful advice, I think I can figure things out from here.

[Viajante]

Mandrel might be the wrong term. I'm referring to the interchangeable tips that screw into the nose of the riveter.

[Iowa Dave]

Those are the mandrel. The center pin on the pop rivet snaps off with a “pop” and is held in the mandrel till you tip the gun forward and release the handles from your iron grip. Pick it up and dispose of properly or it could show up as a flat tire culprit.

When you drill the pop rivet out use a sharp drill bit, go slow and hold the drill at the angle of whatever is riveted. When you withdraw the drill bit there will be some aluminum curly ques in the flutes of the bit you can pick out, they are sharp, be careful. Then look at the hole you drilled and you might be able to pull another sliver of aluminum or two out of the hole and see the rivet head is “loose”. Just take your time, do a wiggling and you’ll end up with a nice round hole. I’ve drilled a number of holes in our Escapes installing snaps and rivets. Go slow, use good bits, The skin on the Escape is not as thick as it is on my hard head. Put a wrap of tape on your bit to limit and gauge penetration. Easy does it.
Iowa Dave

[alanmalk]

I replaced that door latch last year. I believe I got the new one on Amazon (of course).


Drilling out the old rivet was easy. A sharp bit and a light touch. You don't go very deep - just enough to remove the visible head. Yes, you might end up drilling into the old latch base but it is going into the trash. Clean up the old sealant with Goof Off. I used a tiny bit of 3M-5200 on the new one and carefully protected the area around the base with masking tape. (5200 will go everywhere in the entire work area.) The rivets I used were aluminum - you don't need the strength of SS thanks to the 5200. And with aluminum you can use (or borrow) an inexpensive pop-rivet gun.

[gbaglo]

How does one squeeze the rivet gun with one hand, while holding the objects that are being riveted together with the other ( like riveting a belt buckle to a belt )? I've never figured that out.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

How does one squeeze the rivet gun with one hand, while holding the objects that are being riveted together with the other ( like riveting a belt buckle to a belt )? I've never figured that out.

That is an important point. If the two items aren't firmly in contact with each other then the rivet can expand a bit between them and not cinch the two together.

But if the head of the rivet is on a solid surface you can put a bit of downwards push while squeezing the handle. Practice makes perfect.

Ron

[Iowa Dave]

In some cases you can use a a clamp or get help from an additional person, especially when using the bigger rivet guns. When I was working we used 1/4 inch diameter steel rivets and a rivet setter with 30 inch handles to set big rivets on road signs. The flush heads and the spread end of the rivet inside of a a square road sign post kept high school boys with dad’s socket set from stealing some signs. But not all.
Iowa Dave