RV Antifreeze will not Flow on Hot side of Taps!

[War Eagle]

By the way, when you pulled your anode, did you try to flush any deposits (or other crud) from the bottom of your water heater tank? And if so, did you see any deposits flush out? If so, the openings through the winterizing valves are pretty small. It wouldn't take much of anything to get sloshed up and lodged into a valve to block the flow - especially if a hot water tap was open and water was flowing through the line while water in the the tank was sloshing around. If that might be the case, trying the blow back thing I suggested above might help dislodge it and clear the line, again, if that might be the cause. Then just do a good tank flush to get any and all deposits and crud the heck out of there.

[elongest]

In the T or 90 deg. position one of the straight legs of the T is blocked and the other side the fluid is redirected. If a valve is turned around the wrong side of the line is blocked. Depending on which valve is backwards when the pump is turned on it is either pumping against the blocked leg of the T or some of the antifreeze and pressure is directed into the sealed off water heater. The mis-mounted valves only come into play in the 90 deg. diverted position.
Eddie

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I don't think there is a way to install the valve wrong. It's basically a hole that runs in the same direction as the lever. Orientation would make no difference.
Pipes are attached either side of the lever and if the lever runs in the same direction as the pipes, the hole is open. If the lever is at right angles to the pipes, the hole is closed.

Originally Posted by elongest

In the T or 90 deg. position one of the straight legs of the T is blocked and the other side the fluid is redirected. If a valve is turned around the wrong side of the line is blocked. Depending on which valve is backwards when the pump is turned on it is either pumping against the blocked leg of the T or some of the antifreeze and pressure is directed into the sealed off water heater. The mis-mounted valves only come into play in the 90 deg. diverted position.
Eddie

Eddie is right. There is a common port on three way valves. If that common port is incorrectly oriented it will work fine in the normal mode and then be off or direct flow the wrong way in the bypass mode. My guess now is that the top valve is oriented wrong and acting like a shutoff valve.

[sclifrickson]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Eddie is right. There is a common port on three way valves. If that common port is incorrectly oriented it will work fine in the normal mode and then be off or direct flow the wrong way in the bypass mode. My guess now is that the top valve is oriented wrong and acting like a shutoff valve.

Why the top valve vs the bottom valve?

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Eddie is right. There is a common port on three way valves. If that common port is incorrectly oriented it will work fine in the normal mode and then be off or direct flow the wrong way in the bypass mode. My guess now is that the top valve is oriented wrong and acting like a shutoff valve.

I fail to understand. If the common port is incorrectly oriented, how would it be connected to the pipe between the two valves? Wouldn't water shoot out of the unconnected port?

[sclifrickson]

Couldn’t this be solved with simple visual inspection, or a good photo of the valves in the non-bypass position? If one of the valves points at the water heater in normal position then that should be the one installed backwards, no?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

Why the top valve vs the bottom valve?

Because if the top valve is piped incorrectly with common towards the water heater the flow would be blocked in bypass mode because the valve can’t flow from the other port to the bypass port. If the bottom valve has the common port piped incorrectly towards the water heater then in bypass mode antifreeze could flow from bypass port to common and antifreeze would have been backfeeding into the hot water heater via the hot water line. Kent did not indicate the latter was a problem.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I fail to understand. If the common port is incorrectly oriented, how would it be connected to the pipe between the two valves? Wouldn't water shoot out of the unconnected port?

By common port I meant that this port should face away from the hot water heater on both the top and bottom. It is common because in both the normal mode and bypass mode this port always see flow. On the top it always sees flow in from the pump/city water and on the bottom it always sees flow out to the trailer. There are no unconnected ports.

[escape artist]

Hi: All... I'm a little late to the party. We assumed the water heater is drained and all pressure is released in the hot lines. Nothing will flow in if the lines are full. I maybe all wet behind the ears but I bet there's a simple answer here.
This is why I don't use antifreeze in the lines but blow them down with my air pig making sure to hold the flush valve open on the toilet!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Kent]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I am going with one of the bypass valves is not set properly. The handles should be facing each other on the bypass water line.

Hey Jim, With valves in bypass the handles face each other, bottom one pointed up and top one pointed down. Tomorrow I will look to see if in normal mode if one handle is facing outboard and one facing inboard or both facing same direction.

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Kent, This may be a bit tricky to try, but can you blow backward through a hot water line? Perhaps remove the shower head from the shower hose, open the bathroom sink's hot water tap and open the galley sink's faucet to hot and/or cold, and then try to blow backward through the shower hose line? If the lines are open, and the winterizing valves are in normal working, non-bypass position, what pressure you blow in will try to go either into the water heater tank, which will be stoppered by the check valve and the anode, or then exit out the galley hot water line. With the by-pass valves set for winterizing, then I'm guessing that what you blow into the shower hose should try to escape out the galley faucet cold water line. Does that make any sense at all? You could also try blowing into the shower hose line with the shower faucet hot water tap open and the water heater tank anode removed to see if the air you blow in the shower hose line exits the anode hole of the water heater tank. I guess I'd have to know the results of those tests before knowing what else to suggest trying. It's just a mechanical problem. There's got to be an answer. Best of luck. Dale

Thanks Dale, I do have a blower attachment with rubber tip that might work. I will give it a try tomorrow I will have trailer home to finish some upgrades.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Kent

Hey Jim, With valves in bypass the handles face each other, bottom one pointed up and top one pointed down. Tomorrow I will look to see if in normal mode if one handle is facing outboard and one facing inboard or both facing same direction..

Please post photos, especially if you solve the problem.

There are three ports to the valve ( see illustration I posted ). If all are in use, I don't see how the valve could be installed wrong.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

On the top it always sees flow in from the pump/city water and on the bottom it always sees flow out to the trailer. There are no unconnected ports.

Oops if cold water in to HWH is piped to the bottom and hot out the top then I have this reversed. Still the same issue, but my guess then is the bottom valve is piped wrong.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

There are three ports to the valve ( see illustration I posted ). If all are in use, I don't see how the valve could be installed wrong.

Using the valve on the outlet side of the heater as an example...

1. disconnect left and right fittings entirely
2. loosen but don't disconnect the vertical fitting
3. spin valve around 180 degrees
4. reconnect left and right and re-tighten vertical

Now the water flow during bypass goes through the bypass pipe then backwards toward the water heater outlet (which is a dead end), instead of forward to the rest of the trailer.

As explained earlier, the common port of each valve must point away from the heater, so that the pipe on the common port gets connected through the valve to either the water heater or the bypass pipe. You might notice that the handle only turns 90 degrees, so it points either to the bypass pipe (the vertical of the "T"), or to one specific side of the top of the "T". So the two sides of the top of the "T" are not interchangeable: one is the common port, the other goes toward the heater.

[padlin]

Just an fyi, Reace told me to keep air pressure under 50 psi.

[War Eagle]

Kent, Here are some actual photos from our 2017 21' (note that the top hot water outlet valve is on the backside of the tubing). Photo #1 shows the valves set in normal operation mode (both knobs pointing to the rear of the camper; the horizontally positioned top knob is mostly hidden behind the horizontal red tubing, but you can see a bit of it). Photo #2 shows them in transition at 45 degree angles (so you can see which direction they need to be turned). Photo #3 shows them in winterizing mode (both knobs pointing at each other, albeit on opposite sides of the bypass tube). By the way, these valves can come under pressure while the camper is just sitting in storage (I guess from warmth expanding air in the line), so it's always a good idea to open both a cold and hot water tap just to release the pressure in the system before attempting to turn the winterizing valves. Much easier to turn the valves that way. Dale...

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

As explained earlier, the common port of each valve must point away from the heater, so that the pipe on the common port gets connected through the valve to either the water heater or the bypass pipe. You might notice that the handle only turns 90 degrees, so it points either to the bypass pipe (the vertical of the "T"), or to one specific side of the top of the "T". So the two sides of the top of the "T" are not interchangeable: one is the common port, the other goes toward the heater.

Here is an image to help better understand what we are talking about here.
"C" is common, "N" is normal and "B" is bypass

[Kent]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Kent, Here are some actual photos from our 2017 21' (note that the top hot water outlet valve is on the backside of the tubing). Photo #1 shows the valves set in normal operation mode (both knobs pointing to the rear of the camper; the horizontally positioned top knob is mostly hidden behind the horizontal red tubing, but you can see a bit of it). Photo #2 shows them in transition at 45 degree angles (so you can see which direction they need to be turned). Photo #3 shows them in winterizing mode (both knobs pointing at each other, albeit on opposite sides of the bypass tube). By the way, these valves can come under pressure while the camper is just sitting in storage (I guess from warmth expanding air in the line), so it's always a good idea to open both a cold and hot water tap just to release the pressure in the system before attempting to turn the winterizing valves. Much easier to turn the valves that way. Dale...

Morning all,really appreciate every ones help.

The water heater is empty and no anode installed.

I did flush water heater out and nothing notable came out, but with the trailer not even a year old the anode is in good shape.

I will take pictures this morning, but I can tell you that both by pass handles are on the same side of lines facing water heater not installed like War Eagle pictures.

Also on my 5.0ta the valves are on the left side of water heater as you look at it from inside.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Kent

... but I can tell you that both by pass handles are on the same side of lines facing water heater not installed like War Eagle pictures. ....

I'm guessing that's your problem right there, and, if it's plumbed like my 21', that the bottom valve needs to be rotated 180 degrees so the valve knob is facing out (did I get that right?). Send a photo of your valve installation to Reace and see what he says. I bet one of your valves was installed backward at the factory. If so, I wonder how many other owners will run into the same problem once more folks start winterizing their campers this Fall.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

I'm guessing that's your problem right there, and, if it's plumbed like my 21', that the bottom valve needs to be rotated 180 degrees so the valve knob is facing out (did I get that right?).

Yup. Almost 100% certain now that the problem is the lower valve is acting like a shutoff valve. My labeled graphic in the above post has piping going out to the right so the hot side valve handle faces out and the cold water valve handle faces in towards the HWH. If the piping goes out to the left this should just be a mirror image with hot side valve handle facing in towards HWH and cold side valve handle facing out (like yours War Eagle).

[padlin]

my 5.0TA is like Rubicons, one on either side.