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Old 02-26-2020, 05:59 PM   #41
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I bought a fully-self-contained (FSC) trailer because I wanted ALL that it offered in creature comforts. Maintaining the systems isn't hard. I find it easier than hauling other 'stuff' that by passes what I have within my trailer. Sanitizing the water system isn't difficult or time consuming. I buy a gallon of bleach in the Spring, use it for the trailer to sanitize the system and the rest of the gallon is used in my home... laundry, cleaning and the like. Buy a new gallon the next Spring. I can buy a gallon of unscented bleach at the Dollar Store. Doesn't get much cheaper than that.
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Old 02-26-2020, 08:58 PM   #42
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Because I don't care for the bleach smell when sanitizing water, I now use the recommended dose of 1 cup hydrogen peroxide to 8 gals water.
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:34 PM   #43
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Another note about bleach. Store bleach in the container in which it was purchased or else an opaque container. This is in order to protect it from UV light, which breaks bonds in the molecule.

And regarding bacterial growth:
Any static water (fresh water tanks sitting with residual water; dead legs in piping) can grow bacteria, even the most pure water. So even if you filter the water you put into the tank you aren't risk free. With our hospital lab water purification systems the laboratory grade water frequently grew unacceptable levels of bacteria when there was a problem with circulation or lack of maintenance. And NO it is unlikely you would have been able to taste the bacteria at these levels. Fortunately the bacteria growing in water systems is rarely serious (as in Legionaires disease), but more of an issue for people with poor immune responses. One of my tasks was to culture the purified water from each system and believe me it was necessary. Those who have good immune systems and aren't easily grossed out are welcome to drink from poorly maintained trailer fresh water systems.

With our trailer in storage for over 5 months of the year I pay a lot of attention to maintaining our water system with bleach treatments. It's on my agenda for this week as we prepare for our first trip of the year. We actually drink water from 5 gal plastic containers we bring along in our truck and use the trailer's water for everything else.

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Old 02-26-2020, 11:21 PM   #44
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Another note about bleach. Store bleach in the container in which it was purchased or else an opaque container. This is in order to protect it from UV light, which breaks bonds in the molecule.

And regarding bacterial growth:
Any static water (fresh water tanks sitting with residual water; dead legs in piping) can grow bacteria, even the most pure water. So even if you filter the water you put into the tank you aren't risk free. With our hospital lab water purification systems the laboratory grade water frequently grew unacceptable levels of bacteria when there was a problem with circulation or lack of maintenance. And NO it is unlikely you would have been able to taste the bacteria at these levels. Fortunately the bacteria growing in water systems is rarely serious (as in Legionaires disease), but more of an issue for people with poor immune responses. One of my tasks was to culture the purified water from each system and believe me it was necessary. Those who have good immune systems and aren't easily grossed out are welcome to drink from poorly maintained trailer fresh water systems.

With our trailer in storage for over 5 months of the year I pay a lot of attention to maintaining our water system with bleach treatments. It's on my agenda for this week as we prepare for our first trip of the year. We actually drink water from 5 gal plastic containers we bring along in our truck and use the trailer's water for everything else.

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So how is the water in the 5 gal containers any better than what you put in your sanitized tank in the trailer
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:07 AM   #45
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Good question.

1. I periodically get new bottles from the water store, filling them with their purified water just to do the exchange. On a longer trip I will refill them with tap water if there is a source I trust.

2. I only store the water for a maximum of 2 weeks before the tanks are empty and thereafter rinsed and refilled. Compare that to the many weeks a trailer can sit between trips with residual water left in its tank and tubing. The tank is never 100% empty. If left over the winter there is even more risk.
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:13 AM   #46
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Would bacteria grow in a winterized Escape with rv antifreeze in the lines?
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:37 AM   #47
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I realize that fresh water system sanitation is a valid concern. I have never had any issue with my Escapes doing a yearly sanitation. If the trailer sits for a while in the summer I dump the tank and flush the lines. Granted, this is primarily for local outing as Calgary water is good quality. I drink out of the tank when travelling from home too.

However, when doing longer travel trips which require tank fills from other sources I exercise more caution and always bring a large container or two as we have seen lots of local water that though sanitary tastes not so great. We fill these containers at a sanitizing station. It is often needed to fill the trailer when camping off the grid. too
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:10 AM   #48
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Would bacteria grow in a winterized Escape with rv antifreeze in the lines?
I clean my pump screen in the Spring because it often has a coat of slime after sitting in RV antifreeze all winter . As far as I know RV antifreeze ( glycol) does not have antiseptic properties
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:42 AM   #49
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Thanks Bob (Bobbito)

I was wondering if you would post on this Thread. I remember your posts about how you maintain and keep your trailer’s water system’s clean.

New members can search your posts to find that thread (a few years ago I think) if they want to learn something about clean trailer water systems!

I was blown away this year to learn the bleach gets “stale” and looses its punch.

Thanks for chiming in

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Old 02-27-2020, 10:37 AM   #50
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I was blown away this year to learn the bleach gets “stale” and looses its punch.

Larry
Well, so does RV antifreeze. It, too, has a shelf life. But if the scent of bleach is strong when you open an “expired” bottle, the active ingredient has not dissipated and will still disinfect. Actually, bleach residue will not hurt you if you don’t flush out the tank completely before filling and you drink it anymore than chlorine or chloramines used in public water supply systems will hurt you. That is, if the chlorine taste doesn’t bother you.
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:37 AM   #51
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Where are you when you're flushing out antifreeze and bleach? I'm guessing neither is safe environmentally.. .for groundwater, soil, etc.
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:45 AM   #52
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Where are you when you're flushing out antifreeze and bleach? I'm guessing neither is safe environmentally.. .for groundwater, soil, etc.
Bleach is mostly water and the chlorine component is broken down rapidly in the environment. Polyethylene glycol is used in food products as a preservative. While maybe not beneficial to the environment, neither is particularly destructive to the environment.
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:51 AM   #53
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Good to know, thanks.
And, the antifreeze? I know not to dump where dogs might get it since toxic to them. So, maybe at a waste dump site?
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:01 AM   #54
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Runoff

I flush the tanks and drain the water to my lower back yard. At the deepest, the top foot of soil my be wetted. A week later I’ve noticed a nice deep greening in the area where the water drained. The concentration is so small and the breakdown rapid enough that our well at 343 feet deep will not be affected and the soil on my property will absorb the water. There is no runoff on any of our three acres. And there is no runoff on our farm ground as we have timber and a registered wetland on the lower elevations of the property. You ought to see the size of the zucchini you can grow where the hog lot used to be out at the farm.
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:08 AM   #55
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How long does it take for you to cut all that grass there, Dave? Nice lawn.....
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:08 AM   #56
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Dave, hope your push mower blades are sharp.
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:18 AM   #57
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Good to know, thanks.
And, the antifreeze? I know not to dump where dogs might get it since toxic to them. So, maybe at a waste dump site?

RV antifreeze ( the pink stuff ) is non-toxic. It's not toxic to dog or man. The main ingredient is used in the food industry to make ice-cream, for instance.
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:58 AM   #58
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Thanks Larry. I will repost the article I prepared for that thread. I don't monitor this forum closely and probably miss a lot of newer threads on this topic.

After supervising and working on our lab water purification systems for over 25 years I gained a lot of experience in contamination and disinfection. Shortly after I got involved we had to deal with a major contamination in our circulating Type 1 water systems plastic piping. It had very long runs to various spigots. Whoever designed the system was ignorant of the fact that ultra pure water should not be circulated over great distances. The circulation was shut down for a few months and a bacterial biofilm grew in the tubing, yielding very high counts. We brought in experts from both Culligan and Millipore, but they could not remove the biofilm. After even the most aggressive disinfections the bacteria hiding behind the biofilm would emerge and flood the system. Biofilms can develop wherever water is stagnant.

We redesigned the lab water to point of use systems (within several feet of the output) and then only had to contend with the bacterial growth due to maintenance issues.

The relevance of all this to trailering that a trailer that has sat idle for many month or even years could easily have a biofilm develop. Getting rid of it could be nigh on impossible. So anyone buying a second hand trailer should look at its history of maintenance closely, especially if it may have sat for months or years with a moist fresh water tank and tubing.

I included an article on a worst case scenario (Legionaire's) here. I wonder how many people might have a lesser infection from this or another bacteria that goes diagnosed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3859008/


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Old 02-27-2020, 12:20 PM   #59
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Hi Jim
It takes about 2 hours to mow mostly because I have to throttle down for close trimming. I’m mowing with a Gravely ProTurn 260 Commercial Z Turn mower, 60 inch cut., 27hp Kawasaki engine. I have two sets of blades so always sharp. I do not remove the clippings unless I’ve been off Escaping for a while, then I sweep them up. I am putting down 3 lbs of actual N per 1000 Sq ft per year in four applications. I start with a crabgrass pre-emergent when the soil tem reaches 55F and finish about the middle of November when I put down a winterizer. In my previous life I had oversight for mowing 975 acres of park turf in our 4,000 acre park system. I was a licensed pesticide applicator from 1975 though 2014 except for 6 years when I didn’t have turf responsibilities. I like growing things as you know and wish I was as good at it as my brother. My brother in Colorado spent 40 years as a Forest Service employee and specialized in Forest management. As kids we hated gardening, mowing, and most forms of grounds maintenance. Spading the garden in the spring was accomplished because when we were done spading and finish raking so
the garden looked like a black pool table, our dad would let us go fishing with the coffee can of worms we collected. I still like to fish. 7 lbs Cannel Catfish, released. Bait: Live Bluegill
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:28 PM   #60
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I flush the tanks and drain the water to my lower back yard. At the deepest, the top foot of soil my be wetted. A week later I’ve noticed a nice deep greening in the area where the water drained. The concentration is so small and the breakdown rapid enough that our well at 343 feet deep will not be affected and the soil on my property will absorb the water. There is no runoff on any of our three acres. And there is no runoff on our farm ground as we have timber and a registered wetland on the lower elevations of the property. You ought to see the size of the zucchini you can grow where the hog lot used to be out at the farm.
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Good for you, Dave … and what a lovely back yard you have!
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