Solar Power question again - Page 2 - Escape Trailer Owners Community
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Tech > Problem Solving | Owners helping each other
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-13-2019, 04:29 PM   #21
Member
 
Berndad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Bristol, Virginia
Trailer: 2019 Escape 19 "Full Quiver"; 2018 Ford F 150 3.0l Turbodiesel
Posts: 85
Send a message via MSN to Berndad Send a message via Yahoo to Berndad
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdf-texas View Post
I have the Victron 100/30 as well and am very pleased with it.

Bernard, Jon spends more time boondocking than anyone I know. If he is pleased with the Victron, you can be assured that it will be a good choice.
Great to know and Bern or Bernie otherwise I think your talking to my Dad!
Berndad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2019, 05:12 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
tdf-texas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Baytown, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape - upgraded version
Posts: 2,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berndad View Post
Great to know and Bern or Bernie otherwise I think your talking to my Dad!
480 watts ( two 190 watt solar roof panels + 100 watt portable)?

You should take a look at the Victron 100/50 SmartSolar.
https://www.amazon.com/SmartSolar-MP.../dp/B073ZJ43L1

That much panel is pushing the limits on the 100/30. 190 watt solar panels don't actually put out 190 watts - sun angle, dust, etc. always reduce the power generated to less than advertised. But still, even at reduced wattage, the 100/30 would be maxed out. The 100/50 would give you some breathing room.
__________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe in fixing it so that it never breaks.
tdf-texas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2019, 06:01 PM   #23
Member
 
Berndad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Bristol, Virginia
Trailer: 2019 Escape 19 "Full Quiver"; 2018 Ford F 150 3.0l Turbodiesel
Posts: 85
Send a message via MSN to Berndad Send a message via Yahoo to Berndad
That was my concern, I looked at the 150/35 as well, but that advertises only 500 watts, so I think I will take your advice, as has been stated before, a little too much capacity beats the "fire" out of too little.
Bern
Berndad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2019, 06:02 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Vermilye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,363
I have 2 160 watt panels on the roof & a 160 watt portable for a total of 480 watts. With all of them connected, and all tilted to the proper angle for a mid January cool day, the most I've seen from the combination was 27 amps. So far, no problems with the Victron, but if it makes you nervous, as Tom mentioned, the 100/50 would be a conservative choice.

I'll have a better idea of how it all works by the Spring. I'm starting my slow crawl to Quartzsite next week.
__________________
Jon Vermilye My Travel Blog
Travel and Photo Web Page ... My Collection of RV Blogs 2018 F150 3.5EB, 2017 21
Vermilye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2019, 08:35 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Lanark Camper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Trailer: Escape 17B, July 2019
Posts: 334
Very interesting discussion. I've set up a few solar systems over the years. Using different battery chemistries, charge controllers, panel sizes etc.

My experience has been to conserve as much energy as possible using led lights etc. Do as much charging in bulk using a generator, alternator etc. as practical. Finish off the charge using solar rather than trying to use solar as the primary means of all power. This has been limited by the real estate needed for enough solar to supply my needs.

My present set up is a small panel (190W), Small battery bank (220 Ah) wet cells, a PWM controller Bogart. A Honda EU2000 generator, 200 Amp alternator on my truck.
I have a good battery monitor Bogart.

My experience has been wet cells handle abuse better than AGM's or gel cells. Wet cells will last 5 to 6 years as long as they are kept topped up with distilled water, and not discharged more than 50% SOC. I found AGMs and gels like to be kept fully charged between each cycle. In situations of continuous use the battery bank may never be charged to 100%.

I monitor the battery bank if the solar panel and charge controller can not keep up with my needs because of consumption or lack of sun I bulk charge using my alternator or generator and use the solar panel to top off the battery bank in adsorption.

I don't have any experience with lithium batteries and can't offer any advice on them.

There are a couple of links here that might be of interest.

https://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/...roller_testing
Frequently Answered Questions - Bogart Engineering

Bob
Lanark Camper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 08:39 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
sclifrickson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Trailer: 2010 17B “MATT”, then 2017 19 “Lilly”
Posts: 1,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
You can purchase a remote for the GoPower Inverter -the simple on/off or one that has more information in a display.

I like the ability of the Victron 100/30 to provide data & allow programming on my phone (like the 721 battery monitor). The combination of the Victron & remote for the inverter will also be less expensive than the GoPower MPPT controller.

If you switch to lithium in the future, rather than needing to purchase a new controller, all you need to do is reprogram the Victron.


One question about the Victron controller: Can it be programmed to match Interstate’s rather high battery charging profile of 15.3V absorption and 15.6V equalization - and even higher when doing correct temperature compensated charging?

I really like Victron’s gear in general. Had I known about it earlier I’d have selected their battery monitor vs the Trimetric that we have.

But the fairly rare ability to program a solar controller to actually match Interstate’s charging profile, and do temp compensation also, was the reason we went with the BlueSky 3000i MPPT, which has functioned flawlessly.
__________________
💩-p+☕️+n
sclifrickson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 09:25 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
Vermilye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by sclifrickson View Post
One question about the Victron controller: Can it be programmed to match Interstate’s rather high battery charging profile of 15.3V absorption and 15.6V equalization - and even higher when doing correct temperature compensated charging?

I really like Victron’s gear in general. Had I known about it earlier I’d have selected their battery monitor vs the Trimetric that we have.

But the fairly rare ability to program a solar controller to actually match Interstate’s charging profile, and do temp compensation also, was the reason we went with the BlueSky 3000i MPPT, which has functioned flawlessly.
Yes. Here is a link to the PDF manual.
__________________
Jon Vermilye My Travel Blog
Travel and Photo Web Page ... My Collection of RV Blogs 2018 F150 3.5EB, 2017 21
Vermilye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 09:35 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
sclifrickson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Trailer: 2010 17B “MATT”, then 2017 19 “Lilly”
Posts: 1,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post


Very nice. Victron makes the Bees Knees!
__________________
💩-p+☕️+n
sclifrickson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 02:39 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Victoria, BC, British Columbia
Trailer: 2020 Escape 19
Posts: 132
Battery monitor question

Sorry to chime in with a basic question, but can someone explain the need for the battery monitor? I have an E19 coming with 2x190W solar and 2 6volt AGM batteries. I had understood the solar controller would show the voltage remaining on the batteries. Is this insufficient to monitor the battery levels. (I am familiar with the need to wait for the batteries to “rest” before getting a true voltage reading, but thought that with AGM batteries this was the only real way to measure them.). Thanks.
Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 03:07 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Vermilye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,363
The problem with a voltage measurement to determine the state of charge of your batteries is it is only accurate under specific conditions. No charging source, the removal of surface charge, no load, etc can be difficult to obtain. The advantage of a battery monitor is it records amp hours in & out of the battery. Once properly configured, it provides an accurate state of charge even under load or while charging.

It also lets you follow "trends", ie with practice you can come up with a good guess how many amp hours you will put back using your solar, depending on the solar conditions of the day. Can you use the microwave for breakfast? Warm up your coffee? Again, knowing how far down your batteries are & making a good guess at what you can put back lets you choose what appliances to use.

All this is possible using a voltage measurement as long as you meet the proper measurement conditions, and unless you spend much of your time dry camping, a battery monitor is probably an unneeded expense & project, but if you depend on solar & your batteries for long periods of time, it is a useful addition.
__________________
Jon Vermilye My Travel Blog
Travel and Photo Web Page ... My Collection of RV Blogs 2018 F150 3.5EB, 2017 21
Vermilye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 03:10 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
I am familiar with the need to wait for the batteries to “rest” before getting a true voltage reading, but thought that with AGM batteries this was the only real way to measure them.
The alternatives to resting voltage measurement are:
  1. measuring the density (or "specific gravity") of the electrolyte - this is only possible with flooded batteries, not AGM or gel
  2. counting the charge going in and out (integrating current over time) - this is the basis of the advanced monitors
Since electrolyte density is not a reasonable thing to check frequently, the charge metering monitors are the popular way to get a reasonably accurate charge level while the battery is in use. If voltage while in use (which is all that the stock solar charge controller gives you) is close enough for you, you don't need a better monitor.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 03:29 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Denver area, Colorado
Trailer: Decisions, decisions
Posts: 104
“ (I am familiar with the need to wait for the batteries to “rest” before getting a true voltage reading,...”

When I get up for a middle-of-the-night trip, that’s when I note the battery voltage to estimate the SOC. That tells me about where I am after a full day or charge and discharge. Over time, a pattern emerges.

Of course, the batteries always have a small discharge from the propane detector, fridge, etc, but the voltage reading will be close enough for estimation purposes.
__________________
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It’s not.”
Dr. Seuss
SamIam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 03:55 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Victoria, BC, British Columbia
Trailer: 2020 Escape 19
Posts: 132
Thanks all - helpful info. I did not understand that the premise for the monitors was to track the amps in and out of the batteries. I am guessing a battery monitor install is harder than simply tying it in to the battery isolator switch that comes with the trailer?
Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 04:35 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
Vermilye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Thanks all - helpful info. I did not understand that the premise for the monitors was to track the amps in and out of the batteries. I am guessing a battery monitor install is harder than simply tying it in to the battery isolator switch that comes with the trailer?
It requires placing a shunt in series with the battery(ies), usually in the negative side. It must be placed so ALL current passes through it; all loads & charging sources. Since this includes the inverter, it is a high current device (typically rated at 500 amps) and the appropriate wiring is necessary. Low current wires are run from the shunt to the monitor, which can be placed in a convenient location. Depending on the brand, some monitors can be connected to your phone via bluetooth.
__________________
Jon Vermilye My Travel Blog
Travel and Photo Web Page ... My Collection of RV Blogs 2018 F150 3.5EB, 2017 21
Vermilye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 04:42 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
alanmalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Thanks all - helpful info. I did not understand that the premise for the monitors was to track the amps in and out of the batteries. I am guessing a battery monitor install is harder than simply tying it in to the battery isolator switch that comes with the trailer?
As projects go, this would be one of the easier ones. But don't rush out and spend money that could be used on coffee & beer if your power needs are not so critical that you want to track every Amp going in and out.

Tying it in to the switch would not work if the solar is between the switch and the battery. In other words, you would not be accounting for the incoming solar Amps.

I don't know this for certain but I believe most monitors use a "shunt" (low value - high accuracy resistor) in the ground leg - the wire as close to the negative pole as possible.

--
Alan
alanmalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2019, 09:54 AM   #36
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Trailer: 2013, 17B 'Mini Pearl' and a 2010 Highlander
Posts: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanark Camper View Post
My experience has been to conserve as much energy as possible using led lights etc. Do as much charging in bulk using a generator, alternator etc. as practical. Finish off the charge using solar rather than trying to use solar as the primary means of all power. This has been limited by the real estate needed for enough solar to supply my needs.

My present set up is a small panel (190W), Small battery bank (220 Ah) wet cells, a PWM controller Bogart. A Honda EU2000 generator, 200 Amp alternator on my truck.
I have a good battery monitor Bogart.

My experience has been wet cells handle abuse better than AGM's or gel cells. Wet cells will last 5 to 6 years as long as they are kept topped up with distilled water, and not discharged more than 50% SOC.

I monitor the battery bank if the solar panel and charge controller can not keep up with my needs because of consumption or lack of sun I bulk charge using my alternator or generator and use the solar panel to top off the battery bank in adsorption.

There are a couple of links here that might be of interest.

https://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/...roller_testing
Frequently Answered Questions - Bogart Engineering

Bob
I agree completely. First, conserve, then understand demand vs capacity. Adding more panels or switching to mppt or lithium won't do a thing for you if you can't get an Amp out of the panels because of shade.
We dislike generators but years ago my wife gave me the go ahead to buy the quietest one we could find, a honda eu3000i. That was never used with the Escape. We used it alot at our cabin where power outages are a monthly thing.
About a month ago we bought a eu2200i that is as quiet as the 3000. And lighter by 70 lbs. We will use it if need be.
You have to be master of your ship and provide the necessaries or you will have a mutiny on your hands.
I don't expect to use it a lot. Not like the people we seem to camp near who run theirs for a couple of hours each meal of the day.

I looked at the links you gave and although I have always wanted the full trimetric setup, we found the stock crappy 'No Power 25' has never let us down and we only have a 90 watt panel on the roof.
Never the less, if the MPPT technology has progressed I should look into it.
I even see that Morningstar has a MPPT sunsaver now, and with our truck camper we used a Sunsaver and a 50 watt panel for about 9 years and only once almost ran out of juice for the furnace and that was an 80Ahr battery. ( the fridge was not electronic.)

Thanks for the Info.
__________________
____
John
jxoco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2019, 08:14 PM   #37
Member
 
Berndad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Bristol, Virginia
Trailer: 2019 Escape 19 "Full Quiver"; 2018 Ford F 150 3.0l Turbodiesel
Posts: 85
Send a message via MSN to Berndad Send a message via Yahoo to Berndad
Victron for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
I have 2 160 watt panels on the roof & a 160 watt portable for a total of 480 watts. With all of them connected, and all tilted to the proper angle for a mid January cool day, the most I've seen from the combination was 27 amps. So far, no problems with the Victron, but if it makes you nervous, as Tom mentioned, the 100/50 would be a conservative choice.

I'll have a better idea of how it all works by the Spring. I'm starting my slow crawl to Quartzsite next week.
Well I went for the simple switch for the inverter as you suggested and the 100/30 Victron MPPT. The risk of all 3 panels putting out full rated wattage is mitigated by the controller limiting incoming power to its rated max (440)! Very nice and saved $100 for a very unlikely event anyway.

BTW do you have an easy reference or recommendations for a charging profile for the latest 6 volt Interstate's GC2-ECL-UTL? Looking back to one of your older posts voltages described were for a different series of battery (GC2-XHD, GC2-HD, GC2-RD)
I can find nothing on Interstate's website.

Finally, does anyone know if the temp monitor I added to the BMV 712 will auto communicate with the smart controller? or do I have to buy a seperate Temp monitor for it as well? (Batteries outside and controller inside)
Berndad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2019, 08:37 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
sclifrickson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Trailer: 2010 17B “MATT”, then 2017 19 “Lilly”
Posts: 1,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berndad View Post
Well I went for the simple switch for the inverter as you suggested and the 100/30 Victron MPPT. The risk of all 3 panels putting out full rated wattage is mitigated by the controller limiting incoming power to its rated max (440)! Very nice and saved $100 for a very unlikely event anyway.

BTW do you have an easy reference or recommendations for a charging profile for the latest 6 volt Interstate's GC2-ECL-UTL? Looking back to one of your older posts voltages described were for a different series of battery (GC2-XHD, GC2-HD, GC2-RD)
I can find nothing on Interstate's website.

Finally, does anyone know if the temp monitor I added to the BMV 712 will auto communicate with the smart controller? or do I have to buy a seperate Temp monitor for it as well? (Batteries outside and controller inside)

Interstate sent me this awhile back.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Adjustments.JPG
Views:	67
Size:	36.1 KB
ID:	42821
__________________
💩-p+☕️+n
sclifrickson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2019, 05:50 AM   #39
Member
 
Berndad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Bristol, Virginia
Trailer: 2019 Escape 19 "Full Quiver"; 2018 Ford F 150 3.0l Turbodiesel
Posts: 85
Send a message via MSN to Berndad Send a message via Yahoo to Berndad
Thanks!
Berndad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2019, 07:49 AM   #40
Senior Member
 
tdf-texas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Baytown, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape - upgraded version
Posts: 2,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by sclifrickson View Post
Interstate sent me this awhile back.
Attachment 42821
15.6 volts for equalization! I'm glad I have voltage regulators on all my devices that can't tolerate higher voltages.
__________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe in fixing it so that it never breaks.
tdf-texas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2023 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.