Springfield pedestal: One more time

[SeldomSeen]

The addition of our granddaughter who will be 10 months old by the time camping season rolls around in this part of the world prompted us to buy a Springfield pedestal for the table in our 2013 Escape 19. Our son, started in a pop up at the same age, so he thinks camping with a baby is normal behavior. His amazing wife agrees. We are hoping the pedestal makes setting up the dinette bed much easier.

So…after all the experience with this problem, what does the brain trust think the best way is to fasten the base of the pedestal to the floor? The original table post sockets protrude through the floor, but I’m a little concerned about drilling through the floor and nutting them from the bottom. But will wood screws in to the ½” plywood, or nutserts be a suitable option? Is there another way? I don’t want to raise the floor.

Glenn

[Ron in BC]

A lot of folks do just use screws. Personally I've been using nutserts for a long time and used them to install my Springfield.

Either way works but I think nutserts are probably a bit stonger.

Ron

[SeldomSeen]

Ron,

Any tips on the best way to drill that hole to the correct depth to keep from punching through the bottom?

Glenn

[John in Santa Cruz]

I used quite large flathead wood screws that stuck just 1/2" below the flange of the pedestal, I think they were #12 ? I predrilled each one with the correct size pilot for hardwood/plywood (a screw into hardwood requires a larger pilot hole than soft woods like pine), I filled all the original holes with a mix of sawdust and white glue (didn't have any suitable wood filler on hand). 1 or two of the Springfield screw holes lined up with the original.

note if you have an earlier trailer, and the dinette floor is flush with the rest of the floor, and not raised, you'll need about 3.5 inches (IIRC) of spacer to make the table the right height. I used wood blocks on the top of the pedestal, and secured my table glide rails to that. I carefully measured all this multiple times before screwing anything down. when its setup right, the fully extended table will be at the original height, and the fully collapsed pedestal will put the table just flush with the benches.

I found my pedestal can tilt some when extended unless I really tighten down on the clamps

[HABBERDABBER]

Use masking tape on your drill bit to visually drill to a correct depth. Measure the thread length of your screws and thickness of the base plate and place the tape at the combined dimensions from the drill tip. Drill to a smidge less depth than the tape.
I don't remember if I reused the screws from the original table support sockets. I think I did. Ron in BC's nut insert suggestion is another way to fasten. They both do the same thing. For increased durability/strength, you could plop a dollop of epoxy into a drilled screw hole and then fasten with screws. Good luck if you ever want to remove things, unless you coat the screws with some wax or coating (common wooden boat technique). I have removed mine, no epoxy used, to gain access when doing other projects. An epoxy enhanced nut insert would allow easy removal of the Sprinfgield.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by SeldomSeen

Ron,

Any tips on the best way to drill that hole to the correct depth to keep from punching through the bottom?

Glenn

I always seem to hold my breath while drilling. But seriously, even though I have drill stops I've never bothered to use them. Masking tape works for me although I really choke hold the drill to stop it from making a sudden lunge if the drill bit hits a void etc.

I probably wouldn't epoxy screws because if you ever have to remove them it could get ugly. On the other hand nutserts could be epoxied in because they stay in place even if the bolt and item are removed. I never have felt the need to do that though.

Ron

[SeldomSeen]

Thanks for the suggestions. Its too cold out there to work now, so I'll try some different techniques in the basement.

[John in Santa Cruz]

oh, pre-drill the holes to the correct depth with a tiny bit, like 1/16", THEN use the proper pilot drill for the screw size you're using, like 5/32" for a #14. Ensure your screws do not stick out more than 1/2" from the bottom face of the pedestal base, as you are screwing into 1/2" plywood (which is slightly under 1/2" in actual size) with a layer of linoleum on top.

btw, rather than epoxy, if you want to ensure the screws stay put, use some white glue. this you can break loose.

[Micheal K]

Originally Posted by SeldomSeen

Any tips on the best way to drill that hole to the correct depth to keep from punching through the bottom?

Ours was installed at the factory and they just used wood screws which were driven right through - screw tips visible on the bottom. No caulking either.
Hopefully they’re doing a better install now that the Springfield is standard option.

[HABBERDABBER]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

btw, rather than epoxy, if you want to ensure the screws stay put, use some white glue. this you can break loose.

With any material added to a screw hole, the desire is to stiffen the surrounding wood fibers, not always to lock it in place.

Elmers white glue would be a good choice. It could be softened with water if needed if you want to remove the pedestal. I didn't use anything with my installation.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

With any material added to a screw hole, the desire is to stiffen the surrounding wood fibers, not always to lock it in place.

Elmers white glue would be a good choice. It could be softened with water if needed if you want to remove the pedestal. I didn't use anything with my installation.

once white glue cures, its an acrylic, and is quite waterproof. however, a little heat applied to the screw head prior to removal should do the trick.

[SeldomSeen]

I can't get in to the trailer now because of the snow. I have the table top at home. It appears that the original table sockets are just over 12" edge to edge. And ...guess what...the Springfield base is 12" in diameter. I was going to leave the sockets in the floor, because I think they are glassed in underneath.

But they may be in the way. Has anyone removed them? Our trailer was built in May 2013.

Glenn

[HABBERDABBER]

At least, not on my 2016 19 footer. Just base socket screws. I patched a few of the screw holes that were visible with a wax colored patch stick to match the lineoleum.
I also removed both sockets. They could interfere with your desired table placement.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by SeldomSeen

I can't get in to the trailer now because of the snow. I have the table top at home. It appears that the original table sockets are just over 12" edge to edge. And ...guess what...the Springfield base is 12" in diameter. I was going to leave the sockets in the floor, because I think they are glassed in underneath.

But they may be in the way. Has anyone removed them? Our trailer was built in May 2013.

Glenn

my 2014 E21, the sockets were screwed directly to the floor plywood. I removed them and put the pedestal in their place, after filling the holes with a whiteglue+sawdust filler I mixed up. I reused a couple of the holes that lined up with the pedestal base holes, but I drilled those out to the pilot size for the #14x1/2 flat philips screws I used.

[HABBERDABBER]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

once white glue cures, its an acrylic, and is quite waterproof. however, a little heat applied to the screw head prior to removal should do the trick.

For what it's worth

No acrylic mentioned at all in this description:

Polyvinyl acetate (PVA, PVAc, poly(ethenyl ethanoate): best known as wood glue, white glue, carpenter's glue, school glue, Elmer's glue in the US, or PVA glue) is an aliphatic rubbery synthetic polymer with the formula (C4H6O2)n. The product is made of PVA-based synthetic glue.

https://findanyanswer.com/what-is-elmers-glue-all


Heat will likely soften it. My experience is water will also soften and weaken it.

[Ron in BC]

Ditto.

On my 2014 E19 the bases were just screwed to the floor and they were easy to remove. The Springfield base would likely be located in between where the other bases were.

On my E21 I told ETI not to install the table. I bought my own Springfield and installed it. So I have two tubes and two bases brand new, never installed. Probably not much market for them and I'd never use them.

Ron

[MVA]

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

At least, not on my 2016 19 footer. Just base socket screws. I patched a few of the screw holes that were visible with a wax colored patch stick to match the lineoleum.
I also removed both sockets. They could interfere with your desired table placement.

Tom,

We are replacing our stock table with a self-made table closer to our needs. Filling the holes in the subfloor with either an epoxy wood filler (e.g., PC Woody) or caulk appears to be a functional solution. How did you patch the holes on the vinyl floor? We were planning to first trim the torn edges in the vinyl. What wax filler did you use?

thanks

[Oldtimer]

I built mobile homes for 10 yrs in my youth and watch the floor installers fix holes a lot . They would first take a small metal pick and clean all around underneath the torn area( holes ) then they would take a wood filler and pack the hole. Then they would use superglue then massage the area until the edges came together then gently tap the area smooth n let it finish drying once done you could barely see it only because you knew where the repair was made.

David

[HABBERDABBER]

Originally Posted by MVA

Tom,

We are replacing our stock table with a self-made table closer to our needs. Filling the holes in the subfloor with either an epoxy wood filler (e.g., PC Woody) or caulk appears to be a functional solution. How did you patch the holes on the vinyl floor? We were planning to first trim the torn edges in the vinyl. What wax filler did you use?

thanks

Somewhere in this forum a person used this material to color match & fill left-over screw holes when mounting the Springfield, and I did the same.

Wood, Laminate and vinyl floor putty. mfg: Roberts Inc. color: Light
ID PC7726
Purchased source: Home Depot.

It matched my vinyl color OK. Didn't disappear, but covered things up.

Oldfellow's suggestion sounds very practical and effective. Because the vinyl flooring is raised around the perimeter of the screw hole, trim it flat with a single edge razor blade laid flat on the floor. Many of the socket mount screw holes are covered with the Springfield pedestal so only a few need to be remedied. I think there are 6 screws per socket.

I also used a "custom" table top of 1/2" banded maple veneered plywood and a drawer slide set-up instead of the factory plastic slides. Search the forum...I described my method and provided photos.

[SeldomSeen]

I'm probably making this more difficult than it is. But it's 20 degrees F out there, and a foot of snow at the storage lot so I can't go look. I thought the socket extended through the floor, and the fiberglass shell? Maybe not? Its the possibility of two, 2" holes that have me concerned.

Gotta remember to take pictures of the bottom.

Glenn