Suburban SDS2 Cooktop - Tighten Nuts/Replace Pipe - LP Leak

[Perry Butler]

There is a potential LP gas leak with the Suburban SDS2 stove.

I believe this problem can stem from two issues:

• The nuts holding the burner adjustment knobs have vibrated and loosened going down the road. This vibration causes the tube from the burner knob adjustment valve to loosen and vibrate the pipe to the burner until the pipe breaks at either the valve or the burner connection, leaking LP gas and having the potential for an explosion.
  
  
• The pipe at either the burner adjustment valve or the burner itself was not correctly installed to the flange that locks it in the valve or burner, so the pipe vibrates loose, leaking LP gas, etc.

After finding out our problem I decided to find how many owners had the LP gas problem, so I viewed every post from:

Propane explosion below cooktop

Odor below SDS2 cooktop

Turns out I’m not the first to figure out this problem. In Odor below SDS2 cooktop, Eggscape in post # 26 and post # 28 and in Propane explosion below cooktop post # 21 also found the issue and has much better pictures than I took. This noon I had a nice conversation with Eggscape to find we're on the same page. I'll identify Eggscape's pictures.

Unfortunately Eggscape’s posts are buried and I felt there should be a separate thread about the inspection and correction/fix.

This thread and Eggscape’s posts will give you two explanations to make your determination on if you want to correct the SDS2 or purchase another stovetop.

[Perry Butler]

Inspection:

I feel EVERY owner of this stove needs to remove the stove and inspect for any problems. Personally I would make the valve nut correction outlined in the post below or Eggscapes post(s).

I first removed our Suburban stove, flipped it upside down, and started checking for loose items. Because of the reports I had seen I immediately inspected the tube that runs between the burner adjustment knob and the burner. You could see black marks on the offending tube because it had worked out slightly. When I pulled on the tube at the burner the tube easily pulled out. The leak was found!

But why did this happen?

I proceeded to inspect/pull/tighten the other three burner tube fittings. When I pulled on the fitting at the burner knob I noticed the entire valve assembly for both burners moved up and down and was not tight with the stainless steel top. I found the nut holding the burner adjustment valve was completely unthreaded and the other side’s nut was held on with one thread! Those loose nuts caused the burner tube to massively vibrate so eventually something has to give: the pipe breaking at the flange locking it into either the burner control valve or on the other end where it attaches to the burner.

Problem #1 had been found!

After finding out how the burner tubes are installed I’m just guessing that some were improperly installed causing problem #2.

I can’t say this enough, “EVERYONE SHOULD PERFORM A COMPLETE INSPECTION OF THEIR SDS2, INCLUDING THE FITTINGS AND TUBES UNDERNEATH!”

[Perry Butler]

Your Need To Inspect and Repair:

Remove your stovetop. You don’t need to remove the 12v wire that provides power to the stove’s sparker. Only one of the spades for the 12v wire was removed easily. The other was locked in, so I used a jewelers screwdriver to remove the wires. This will be apparent when you look at how the wires are connected. Hopefully your spades will pull off easy though.

First, once your stove is removed can you easily move the valves in the stainless steel top? If you can, you either have an LP gas leak or will soon. Flip the stove back into the countertop, and remove one nut holding the valve to the SS stovetop.

Second, pull on the pipe from your control valve to your burner. Is it loose or does it pull out easily. If it’s loose remove the pipe and inspect to see the flange is fully inserted over the pipe. If not fully inserted you’ll need to purchase a repair kit.
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Find A Knowledgeable LP Gas Installer/Vendor:

We’re lucky we live in a small town and have VIS Plumbing a few blocks away. They were the plumbing and heating contractors we used when building out our condo unit. I could have visited Lowes, Menards, or Home Depot in Rochester, but most of their employees know little of how LP gas appliances should properly be installed, much less how to correctly fix a Suburban SDS2 stove. AFAIC, RV shops are no better than Lowes, Menards etc.

VIS Plumbing has 5-6 employees including the owner and his son. Jon, the owner, usually is back to the shop around 4 pm so he can be reached for any issues. At 4 pm I went to get a plug for the open LP gas line that was connected to the stove, but also brought along the stove for Jon’s opinion. Jon agreed that the loose valve nuts caused vibration that eventually broke the pipe to the burner. He then went over to a shelf, found a roll of the same pipe and a couple of flanges to go on each end. Since we’d already ordered a Dickinson stovetop I didn’t ask for pricing, but I can’t see the price being over $20 at the most.

[Perry Butler]

Valve Nut Correction:

I would perform this correction/prevention even if my nuts were currently tight.

Check your valve nuts. Are they tight? Mine weren't.

The above picture shows how many threads were exposed underneath the stove. There should have been NO threads exposed underneath. Without the nuts being tight the entire stove assembly vibrated until the one pipe to the burner broke off.

The pictures below are from Eggscape's post # 21 in Odor from SDS2 cooktop

If your nuts are tight there will be a rubber cover preventing you from attaching a wrench to the nut. You need to remove the nut and install a star washer and/or Loctite. A standard pliers (once upon a time I was a farmer) can be used to distort the rubber cover to remove the nut. I would then either use a lock washer, star washer, or Loctite to prevent the nuts from loosening. Personally, from experience I would use a star washer AND a very small drop of Loctite.

On reassembly I would just install the star washer, put a small drop of Loctite Threadlocker Blue 242 well above the threads of the valve (make sure the loctite does not enter the valve), and tighten the nut. If you put the Loctite on the threads well above the valve, the nut will push the Loctite down for a better hold. USE BLUE LOCTITE, NOT RED! After the nut is tightened I would flip the rubber cover over, and put the cover on so it's between the knob and the nut area. The black rubber cover will be loose, but I wouldn’t worry.

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Pipe Replacement:

On the right in the picture below shows a pipe with an intact flange. That burner could still have been used. The flange on the left is broken/missing/still in the burner, and needs replacement.

[IMG][/IMG]

I used an ice pick to remove the broken off flange from the burner. I don't have any easy-outs that small. I could have used a screw, by just screwing it in and then pulling straight out.

If you need a pipe from the control valve to the burner replaced, go to a LP supplier or installer with your stovetop and flange nuts. They should be able to provide you with the pipe and flanges for each end. Cut your pipe to length, install the flanges over the pipe, insert the pipe/flange into the fittings, and tighten the nut to compress the flange to the pipe for a solid fit. Do not over tighten though!

[Perry Butler]

Stove Replacement:

If you’re uncomfortable with the above repairs, you can replace your stovetop. If I had knowledge that the Suburban SDS2 could easily be repaired I would have performed these repairs and would have had complete confidence in the SDS2 once the repairs were completed. Terry loved the SDS2, but once she saw the Dickinson stovetop, and since our Dickinson was already ordered and shipped, there was no going back.

The stovetops that are installed in RVs are basically crap. Take the Dometic cooktop/oven for instance. It’s currently in recall. We've owned at least three Dometic cooktop/ovens, with basic poor burner control, ovens a PITA to light, and none were even close on temperature, unless you adjusted the setting yourself, and then it still would vary by 25 degrees or more from one use to the next.

I knew that the best small stovetops were sold by marine dealers. After reading here and talking to others I looked at propane galley drop-in stovetops offered by Sure Marine.

Our stovetop choices:

Dickinson Drop-in - the best of the best. Completely recessed with a wooden cutting board. Only $629 delivered to our door. This was Terry’s choice. She cooks mainly “Forks Over Knives” and deserves the best.

Eno 43234 2 Burner Drop-In LPG Stove Top- this was Terry’s second choice, but it’s not flush and she wants the space offered with the Dickinson cutting board in place. Around $370 delivered.

Eno 44134 1 Burner Drop-In "Flush Line" LPG Stove Top - this was my choice since 99% of the time Terry only uses one burner. Around $350 delivered.

Eno 46238 2 Burner Gimballed LPG Stove Top - so Terry could cook like Lucy! Around $440 delivered.

Choose wisely grasshopper!

[Perry Butler]

Moderators, I've edited this post after receiving a great PM from Donna D and reading Jim Bennett's comment.

There is only a 6 hour editing window. I’ll be posting this sometime this afternoon and will be able to edit till the editing window closes. Please let me know of any changes needed.

I’m also dyslexic and can have spelling/grammar issues, especially in posts this long.

Thanks for listening!

Perry

[oldwave]

Most excellent work in finding a fix for this very serious issue. Thats the best of this forum, people helping each other. Kudos

[Calicia]

Thank you Perry for going to so much trouble for those of us who have this Suburban. I am one who feels uncomfortable doing this myself or even trusting someone whom I’m not certain of his/ her expertise. I am interested in the one burner Eno but since I have a 17b with the furnace below I’m wondering if it would be possible to mount this and if so how would I fill in the cutout which is bigger than needed for the Eno 44134 one burner? Thank you again for your all your work in writing this.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by zieranna

In response to some of the "fixes" I have read: 1). Tightening fittings, etc. won't necessarily help because (in my case) it was the failure of a part and no amount of tightening by an owner or at the factory would have helped. 2). My explosion happened with the cabinet door opened, so that idea may not be as effective as hoped.

I do appreciate different perspectives. Let's keep the corrective pursuit and dialogue going.

Sorry, but you've misunderstood. EVERY owner should tighten the nuts on their SDS2 stove as a preventative measure, not as a fix. I know at least three of us have had loose nuts that caused the whole stove to vibrate, causing the tube from the gas adjustment valve to the burner to break off, as yours has broken. So tightening the nuts will not "fix" anything. It's merely a preventative measure to prevent the broken pipe from happening.

I just posted Suburban SDS2 LP Leak Cooktop - Inspection and Correction/Fix. You can go to a competent LP installer and have him make you a new pipe with flanges to replace the one that broke on your stove. Once you have a new pipe installed you can prevent this from happening again by adding star washers and Loctite to keep the nuts from turning.

Or you could buy a new/different stove.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Mark B1]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

There is a potential LP gas leak with the Suburban SDS2 stove.

Thanks for putting this together. We have only used our Suburban SDS2 stove twice as we cook outside unless we are in travel mode or it is storming outside. I did a quick check and our valves and the tubes to the burners feel tight and secure and I can smell no propane when turning the stove on. However, the preventative fixes you and eggscape have detailed are so very easy for me to do, and knowing the potential risks I would feel negligent in not doing it.

Again, thanks for your efforts.

[Effie]

Thanks again Perry, I'm on the road but once back home I'll take a close look at the stove top. As I wrote before it is a replacement unit but still the same SDS2.

[TZBrown]

Nice detail on the inspection and repair. Thanks Perry

[thoch]

Thank You Perry. Great information. We'll be closely checking ours when we get it. (soon)

[j3cub]

Perry, thanks so much for this effort, but I think that having the aluminum gas lines replaced with, and I assume would be tubes with compression sleeves can be subject to failure because it would not be engineered and tested.

[j3cub]

And if it does leak again down the road you are stuck with the same dangerous problem.

[Sean Murry]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Stove Replacement:

If you’re uncomfortable with the above repairs, you can replace your stovetop. If I had knowledge that the Suburban SDS2 could easily be repaired I would have performed these repairs and would have had complete confidence in the SDS2 once the repairs were completed. Terry loved the SDS2, but once she saw the Dickinson stovetop, and since our Dickinson was already ordered and shipped, there was no going back.

The stovetops that are installed in RVs are basically crap. Take the Dometic cooktop/oven for instance. It’s currently in recall. We've owned at least three Dometic cooktop/ovens, with basic poor burner control, ovens a PITA to light, and none were even close on temperature, unless you adjusted the setting yourself, and then it still would vary by 25 degrees or more from one use to the next.

I knew that the best small stovetops were sold by marine dealers. After reading here and talking to others I looked at propane galley drop-in stovetops offered by Sure Marine.

Our stovetop choices:

Dickinson Drop-in - the best of the best. Completely recessed with a wooden cutting board. Only $629 delivered to our door. This was Terry’s choice. She cooks mainly “Forks Over Knives” and deserves the best.

Eno 43234 2 Burner Drop-In LPG Stove Top- this was Terry’s second choice, but it’s not flush and she wants the space offered with the Dickinson cutting board in place. Around $370 delivered.

Eno 44134 1 Burner Drop-In "Flush Line" LPG Stove Top - this was my choice since 99% of the time Terry only uses one burner. Around $350 delivered.

Eno 46238 2 Burner Gimballed LPG Stove Top - so Terry could cook like Lucy! Around $440 delivered.

Choose wisely grasshopper!

Thanks Perry for taking the time to isolate and solve the problem, along with Eggscape, the pictures say 1000 words.

I am going to apply the lock washers to our control knobs. What size lock washer did you use?
Thanks
Sean

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by j3cub

And if it does leak again down the road you are stuck with the same dangerous problem.

Should not leak any more than a Dickinson if one installs a star washer and/or uses Loctite.

I wouldn't have purchased the Dickinson if I had figured out the fix soon enough. Our Dickinson arrived yesterday and it looks to be a simple install. However, I would have saved the $629 and had complete confidence in the SDS2 with a new pipe on one side and correctly locked nuts on the burner valve.

Enjoy,

Perry

[LoonCall]

Perry,


Thanks for your leadership in resolving this issue.


We have suspected a leak in our 2020 5.0 since we continually have smelled propane in the cabinet below the Suburban cooktop. Fortunately, we have not experienced an explosion.


We initially contacted Dustin at Escape in March 2020 and he referred us to Suburban. upon their recommendation, we took the RV to an approved Suburban technician. No leak was found. This year we had two additional Suburban approved technicians track down the propane smell. Pressure testing only revealed a slight leak on the main regulator by the propane tanks. Escape promptly sent a replacement. None of the technicians used a sniffer. We now suspect the unit has a slight leak when the burners are used. I believe pressure testing can not detect a leak under operation (plesae advise if different). I emailed Suburban inquiring how it can be leak tested while operating. No response. I have ordered a handheld propane sniffer to detect a leak. I also saw Eggscape's post #30: "Put a few drops of dish soap in a 1/4 cup of water. With an old tooth brush dip the brush in the solution and rub a bit in the areas in red. If there is a leak, soap bubbles will appear and be growing. This test can only be done when the stove burner is on as it is beyond the valves. So get all setup with something soft on the floor, a light under the sink, your solution then light one burner and test for leaks in two spots on that side. Repeat for the other side." I'll update after receipt of the sniffer and the soap test.


Also no loose fittings detected.


My 'whine' suggestion is a fine Riesling from Wisconsin's Wollersheim Winery. :-)

[2Travelers]

I have been closely following these cooktop discussion threads and want to thank everyone who has contributed their experiences and knowledge--those who called attention to the problem and those who identified and provided clear instructions on repair or replacement solutions.

I do not believe my stove is leaking. The nuts on both valves are tight, though the nut on the right was only finger tight and I could loosen it with little effort. I plan to add star lock washers and a drop of loctite to both.

I did not pull the stove from the counter for a full inspection because I am not entirely comfortable detaching the propane supply line from the stove (which I expect is a necessary step). Is that something that should concern me? It wouldn't normally, but I have read many words of caution on this forum about propane and working with propane fittings. I understand the need for two wrenches, for not overtightening, and for checking for leaks after reassembly. If I am careful, how concerned should I be about this? I would like to get the stove above the counter for a fuller inspection.

Again, thanks everyone for a critically important and useful discussion.

[Farmgirl]

You have done a great public service for us and for other RV owners - thank you!


I am surprized that someone at ETI doesn't skim the daily posts. When dangerous events are posted they could follow up to prevent further damage. It's no excuse to say that the Forum is not sponsored by ETI.