Suburban SDS2 LP Leak Cooktop Owners

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Brian, how do you find this area of the NHTSA? I tried checking compaints etc. but didn't get too far.

The starting point is https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls

It starts with a VIN search, but if you click the "Vehicle" tab you get a big search box for "Year Make Model", and partial searches work so just "Escape" will get you everything by ETI... plus various models from Ford, Damon, and KZ. The ETI trailers are all on pages 8 and 10 (of 10 pages total), because they all start with the year are are from 2019 and 2020 model years. It looks at a glance like there are several recalls, but they're all for the same "Window Adhesive Failure". The complaints associated with Escapes are:

• solar panel detaching on a 2019 21C (ID: 11431665), and
• propane odor in a 2020 Escape (ID: 11442118)

Note that recalls, investigations, complaints, and manufacturer communications are all shown in the table, separately linked, but once you are looking at any of those categories you can change to the other categories without going back to the search result table.

If you click "Equipment" instead of "Vehicle" you can search for "Suburban"; there are no matches for "SDS", because in the one complaint which I could find (ID: 11442118), the stove model is given as "SDN2H".

The Suburban stove complaint report (ID: 11442118) is for a 2020 on November 8, 2021 in Oberlin, OH with a propane leak. It mentions the stove and associates with the Suburban SDN2H (not the SDS2, which is a different model) but does not indicate that any defect was found; it also notes no fire and no injuries. The trailer model is not listed, but the VIN 2e9tf6b27lc**** (2E9TF6B27LCnnnn) corresponds to a 2020 19'.

The recalls page also includes (for every type of search other than VIN) "Also search by NHTSA ID or complaints by keyword" links, so for instance you can search for the window adhesive failure reall with "21V666000" or the stove gas leak with "11442118", once you find that ID.


To report a problem (register a complaint) the "REPORT A SAFETY PROBLEM" box at the top right corner of the page (at least in the regular version of the page - I haven't checked the mobile version) brings up a submission form.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Can anyone report what Escape is installing now?

This has been addressed in multiple threads / posts, many with pics.

The 'standard base 2-burner cooktop' as of reports dating back to late summer 2021 is the stainless steel / black glass cover / cast-iron grates Dometic D21.

Always subject to change of course, consult with your sales specialist!

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Centex

This has been addressed in multiple threads / posts, many with pics.

The 'standard base 2-burner cooktop' as of reports dating back to late summer 2021 is the stainless steel / black glass cover / cast-iron grates Dometic D21.

Always subject to change of course, consult with your sales specialist!

Thanks....

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The starting point is https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls

It starts with a VIN search, but if you click the "Vehicle" tab you get a big search box for "Year Make Model", and partial searches work so just "Escape" will get you everything by ETI... plus various models from Ford, Damon, and KZ. The ETI trailers are all on pages 8 and 10 (of 10 pages total), because they all start with the year are are from 2019 and 2020 model years. It looks at a glance like there are several recalls, but they're all for the same "Window Adhesive Failure". The complaints associated with Escapes are:

• solar panel detaching on a 2019 21C (ID: 11431665), and
• propane odor in a 2020 Escape (ID: 11442118)

Note that recalls, investigations, complaints, and manufacturer communications are all shown in the table, separately linked, but once you are looking at any of those categories you can change to the other categories without going back to the search result table.

If you click "Equipment" instead of "Vehicle" you can search for "Suburban"; there are no matches for "SDS", because in the one complaint which I could find (ID: 11442118), the stove model is given as "SDN2H".

The Suburban stove complaint report (ID: 11442118) is for a 2020 on November 8, 2021 in Oberlin, OH with a propane leak. It mentions the stove and associates with the Suburban SDN2H (not the SDS2, which is a different model) but does not indicate that any defect was found; it also notes no fire and no injuries. The trailer model is not listed, but the VIN 2e9tf6b27lc**** (2E9TF6B27LCnnnn) corresponds to a 2020 19'.

The recalls page also includes (for every type of search other than VIN) "Also search by NHTSA ID or complaints by keyword" links, so for instance you can search for the window adhesive failure reall with "21V666000" or the stove gas leak with "11442118", once you find that ID.


To report a problem (register a complaint) the "REPORT A SAFETY PROBLEM" box at the top right corner of the page (at least in the regular version of the page - I haven't checked the mobile version) brings up a submission form.

Thanks Brian. I probably would have given up before I found out those details. I'll likely check it from time to time to see if more folks report the issue.

Ron

[stevemcn]

We had a leak in ours, before we were aware of all the other people having leaks. Replaced it with another suburban, because it was under warranty. Now we regret that decision, and will not use it.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I'll likely check it from time to time to see if more folks report the issue.

NHTSA has notification systems for both mobile apps and e-mail.
NHTSA's Recall Notification Email System
You can probably set up notifications for the trailer and the stove.

[Eggscape]

Originally Posted by stevemcn

We had a leak in ours, before we were aware of all the other people having leaks. Replaced it with another suburban, because it was under warranty. Now we regret that decision, and will not use it.

Thanks for letting us know.

I am sure there are other people out there that don’t do this forum or Facebook and have know idea what may happen.

If I run across someone with an Escape I plan to make sure they are aware of the problem if they have this stove. If everyone did this we may save someone a bit of grief.

[George Johnson]

Thank you, Brian B-P for your detailed explanation of how reporting to NHTSA needs to be done in order to be a part of the record. It seems obvious to me that this must be done by everyone who has had a problem with their Suburban SDS2 stove in order to protect the members of the RV community who are using this stove. Please continue reading...



As a further illustration of this, there is a bit of my conversation with my Baby Brother (BB) that I neglected to put in my last post.To wit: At the conclusion of his conversation with the Suburban representative, BB asked for a reference number or other identification that would identify his complaint to the company related to his stove. HE INFORMED ME THAT HE WAS TOLD THAT THE COMPANY KEEPS NO RECORD OF SUCH CONVERSATIONS WITH END USERS OF THE COMPANY'S PRODUCTS. SUBURBAN ONLY KEEPS RECORDS FOR THE PEOPLE AND COMPANIES THEY SELL DIRECTLY TO (LICENSED MANUFACTURERS AND REPAIR SHOPS), NOT FOR THE END USERS OF THEIR PRODUCTS.


If that is the case, that means that Suburban has no "official" knowledge of the actual performance of the products they sell. They can claim ignorance of any problems the end users might have with the SDS2 model stove. It is essential that anyone having a problem with their SDS2 stove top correctly and completely file a complaint with NHTSA in order to document the performance record of this stove top. 'Nuff said.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by George Johnson

... At the conclusion of his conversation with the Suburban representative, BB asked for a reference number or other identification that would identify his complaint to the company related to his stove. HE INFORMED ME THAT HE WAS TOLD THAT THE COMPANY KEEPS NO RECORD OF SUCH CONVERSATIONS WITH END USERS OF THE COMPANY'S PRODUCTS. SUBURBAN ONLY KEEPS RECORDS FOR THE PEOPLE AND COMPANIES THEY SELL DIRECTLY TO (LICENSED MANUFACTURERS AND REPAIR SHOPS), NOT FOR THE END USERS OF THEIR PRODUCTS.


If that is the case, that means that Suburban has no "official" knowledge of the actual performance of the products they sell. They can claim ignorance of any problems the end users might have with the SDS2 model stove. It is essential that anyone having a problem with their SDS2 stove top correctly and completely file a complaint with NHTSA in order to document the performance record of this stove top. 'Nuff said.

If true this is more evidence of potential negligence on Escape's part by not reporting to the manufacturer the explosions and injuries they ARE aware of.

[Bobbie54]

Suburban states on their site that you should contact your dealer for service, not them. In this case the "Dealer" being Escape who refused to do anything and said contact Suburban to have one of their repair centers examine and repair it. Some people have managed to get a repair center to look at it but I stopped trying when I got no response since I think any repair would still be unsafe.

[rbryan4]

Someone explain how reporting the issue to the NHTSA after your stove explodes prevents your stove from exploding.

Escape is in the know on this. So is Suburban. But owners who don't use this Forum or the Facebook are not. They have a ticking time bomb under their counter and there's dead silence from the entity that could prevent it from going off.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Someone explain how reporting the issue to the NHTSA after your stove explodes prevents your stove from exploding.

It might get other stoves recalled so that they are not in other people's trailers to explode. If you're only concerned about yourself, then you need to report a leaking defective stove and hope that a resulting recall gets it replaced before an explosion. But if protecting yourself is the only concern, the solution is obviously to just replace the stove with another model at your own expense - no trailer or appliance manufacturer or government agency support needed.

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Escape is in the know on this. So is Suburban. But owners who don't use this Forum or the Facebook are not. They have a ticking time bomb under their counter and there's dead silence from the entity that could prevent it from going off.

Escape and Suburban are fully informed, but both refuse to do anything. That's exactly why reporting to an external government agency is important: customers are easy to ignore, but regulators are not. Owners who are not aware of this discussion would still be reached by a recall.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

if protecting yourself is the only concern, the solution is obviously to just replace the stove with another model at your own expense -

Such is not the case, nor did I ever imply it. The concern is for those owners whose stove currently poses a serious danger, and they are unaware of it.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Such is not the case, nor did I ever imply it. The concern is for those owners whose stove currently poses a serious danger, and they are unaware of it.

But you asked:

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Someone explain how reporting the issue to the NHTSA after your stove explodes prevents your stove from exploding.

That is not about other owners at all, and it was what I was referring to.

We agree that the big problem is owners who don't know about the hazard.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

But you asked "Someone explain how reporting the issue to the NHTSA after your stove explodes prevents your stove from exploding"... which is not about other owners at all. That's what I was referring to.

I don't own one. There is no risk that mine will explode. I'm not concerned for myself at all. It was a way of referring to the repeated advice to report the explosion to the NHTSA. That's after the fact. Small consolation to someone who's already injured. So the question remained, what about owners who don't know of the problem? Sure, eventually if they get enough reports of the issue, they may initiate a recall. It's deplorable that in the meantime there are owners in peril.

[SFcamping]

While catching up on this post, I noticed this article/video in the RVLife "You may also like:" section at the bottom of the screen. In the last few minutes of the video they show how to do a propane leak down test. I found it informative.

https://rvlife.com/rv-propane-leak/

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

It was a way of referring to the repeated advice to report the explosion to the NHTSA.

That repeated advice appears to be futile, since (as of yesterday) no one seems to have followed it.

Originally Posted by rbryan4

That's after the fact. Small consolation to someone who's already injured.

Right... you can't change history. You can affect the future...

Originally Posted by rbryan4

So the question remained, what about owners who don't know of the problem? Sure, eventually if they get enough reports of the issue, they may initiate a recall. It's deplorable that in the meantime there are owners in peril.

So we all agree that Escape and Suburban have been negligent, and that's bad. It would be even worse to just accept that and choose not to do what can be done... which is to work with regulatory agencies to force the negligent manufacturers to act. Even if no recall results, reports from owners are visible in the NHTSA website (and presumably the Canadian equivalent) to anyone who wants to check for possible issues. Forum discussions will not help anyone who does not follow the forum.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That repeated advice appears to be futile, since (as of yesterday) no one seems to have followed it.

"No one" is an absolute and is untrue. I phoned in a complaint last June and others have also contacted NHTSA. My guess is there has not been enough complaints to justify a recall, or the various complaints are registered differently. The question is, how many complaints does it take to issue a recall.

So far this and other threads here on the Escape Forum are only good if someone has severe burns or dies, to provide evidence to be used in a lawsuit. ETI doesn't care.

Perry

[BobG]

rbryan4 - I have reported an appliance to the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) when I could get no help from a manufacturer. It was 97lb microwave drawer and expensive. When I told the manufacturer I reported the microwave to the CFPSC the manufacturer president's office contacted me and offered a new replacement, same model, same 5 year warranty if I would sign a letter relieving them of all liability and return my microwave to them at their expense. They ended up sending 100 lb of microwave to me 3 times due to mistakes, the last one overnight air from east coast to west coast plus freight on my original microwave. Lots of expense.


This is important to know:
The CPSC contacted me and asked if there were any damages or injuries. When I told them none they told me they could do nothing about it but would keep my report on file.


It is important for people who are damaged to report the incident because the the CPSC there to help protect more people from being damaged.


Reporting a defective product that causes injury or damage does protect people from defective products. CPSC carries a big stick. As you can see, it sometimes doesn't require a recall to get results for your own situation and it can provide future protection for others.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

"No one" is an absolute and is untrue. I phoned in a complaint last June and others have also contacted NHTSA. My guess is there has not been enough complaints to justify a recall, or the various complaints are registered differently. The question is, how many complaints does it take to issue a recall.

There has been no recall, but complaints are visible even when they do not result in a recall. If you have registered a complaint, it is apparently not properly associated with an Escape trailer. Perry, what is your NHTSA complaint ID? We could look at it online to see what went wrong with the way it was registered.

Recalls are not based on the number of complaints; they are based on the proven justification for a recall. That could occur with a handful of complaints, or not occur with thousands of complaints, depending on the specific situations.