Top/Bottom halves seal

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by NW Cat Owner

...Yet another reason ETI should have notified owners of a potential source of leakage once they knew about it.

Notifying all owners of every potential issue that arises in an Escape may not always be the best approach to resolving problems with the least amount of impact to all. I expect that Reace personally reviewed this issue, including details regarding the numbers of trailers that were potentially impacted and the consequences of rivet failures, and made his own decision as to the best approach for dealing with it and notifying impacted customers.

[Santiago]

Originally Posted by Lin

From our experience:
-Not all failed rivets will leak.
-It might take a specific circumstances, to cause a leak through a failed rivet.
-A failed rivet in the belly band is not a structural concern
-A leak is definitely a problem.
-A dry camper beats a soggy camper any day

Well ... this is unsettling.

I thought I was done worrying over rivet failures when I sold my Scamp, at least those are out in the open very visible and can be dealt with them before they leak into the inner wall.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Bobbito

How would moisture cause the fiberglass walls to warp?

It can't... but all of the interior cabinet walls (other than the bath/shower enclosure) are wood.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Lin

We believe our camper was probably the origin of the rivet concern that has been mentioned in different strings. We may have been the only 2017 camper that had a rivet problem.
The good news is: the issue has been found and repaired on our camper, and ETI is checking rivets going forward.

Our 2017- 19 was completed the first week in January and shipped to us in April. It did sit outside at ETI for quite a few very wet months. When the camper was delivered it looked great, no signs of any moisture or leak issues. The second night we had the camper sitting in our driveway we had a huge rain storm with high wind. The next morning when I went to bring some items to the camper, the floor was flooded. There was also some water in the bathroom and water under the passenger side dinette window which was closed tight.

We had waited so long, and now our brand new camper was a soggy mess.

I was on the phone with Tammy ASAP. She was extremely supportive.
This was the same point in time that ETI was focused on a leak issue from the new refrigerator. So, that was the primary focus for the water on the floor.
I probably left the bathroom window slightly open, so that was (and still is) the working theory on the water in the bathroom.
The water issue under the dinette window was put aside while we focused on the leak(s) soaking the floor.

We did several water tests which indicated that we probably had 2 places the water was coming in on the driver side.
Reace was working diligently on figuring out a solution for the refrigerator leak. We followed his instructions for sealing the refrigerator screws. Water testing the refrigerator vent at that point indicated one of the leaks had stopped.

We designed our water tests to check every area the fiberglass had been cut in manufacturing (vents, refrigerator, furnace, windows...etc.). Lots of plastic, tape and water tests later it appeared our second leak was coming from the belly band on the DS about midway down the side. The water came in within seconds of turning the hose on that spot. Reace talked us through how to pull the black part of the belly band and test the rivets. He was very surprised. He had never experienced a leak like this. We can't explain why it had never leaked at ETI? One can only surmise the volume of rain and the direction of the wind played a role.
Sure enough, 2 rivets, exactly where we were getting a leak, had failed. We also had 1 failed rivet near the door (which did not leak at all when tested with the hose). We filled all 3 with silicone (yes we know we will need to check these seals going forward). After filling the failed rivets, the camper did not leak when tested with water on the driver's side.

This was also the time that there were some 2017 window leaks discussions showing up on the forum. Which brings us back to the water under the passenger side dinette window. So, we did more water testing to see if that was a 3rd leak issue. Yes, we also had the failed seals on several of our windows. Reace had the replacement windows and supplies shipped out. The repairs were made recently at our local RV center. We have not had a chance to do a final water test yet, but we are optimistic that our water issues have been resolved.

There certainly are learning curves with new models. We knew that going into our purchase and accepted the risks. ETI has worked through the issues and learned with us.

This is how we checked the rivets:
First, make a small metal "thingy" (as NWCat has called it). We used a large paper clip that we straightened out. It should be several inches long.
Pull out a couple of feet of the black band. It is pretty easy to do with your fingers. The metal belly band, that holds the black band in place, has pre-drilled holes in it. Not all of these holes have rivets. Using the metal "thingy", tap the holes that have rivets in them. The metal makes it easy to hear a distinctive metallic tap when you poke into the center that has a rivet properly in place. A failed rivet is fairly easy to detect. There is no metal sound when tapping and the paper clip goes deeper indicating the rivet isn't present. If this happens, you can also potentially feel the insulation on the inside of the camper wall. When you have finished checking that section, replace the rubber part by pushing it back into place. Then move onto a new section. It was suggested that working a few feet at a a time makes it easier to put the black band in place without bumps. If you have some masking tape on hand, you can use it to remember where you are working and mark any failed rivets.
From our experience:
-Not all failed rivets will leak.
-It might take a specific circumstances, to cause a leak through a failed rivet.
-A failed rivet in the belly band is not a structural concern
-A leak is definitely a problem.
-A dry camper beats a soggy camper any day

Happy camping.
Linda

Linda you must be a Saint kind of like the Linda that lives here . I'm sorry but if that was my new trailer , it goes back replaced with another new trailer . Either they come pick it up or if I can I will bring it back . As Laura has mentioned I would be concerned with mold . I think there was someone on the forum that had his 5 th replaced because of flooding . His was replaced with insurance . Yours is brand new . A difference in my mind . Wood doesn't like water and can't dry out completely . If this as you described , you should be taken care of . The Linda in this house feels exactly as I do . She is a lot nicer then I am . I feel really bad you had to go through this . I hope you are taken care of . So sorry . Pat

[wetzk]

After reading this I decided I was going to check our trailer since we have been getting very heavy rainfall the last couple weeks.
One note, do not check the rivets in bright sunlight when it is hot out. The band expands slightly and that expansion adds up fast. I had to wait until just a little bit ago to start back on it. Now that the sun is not beating down and the rain has cooled things off I was able to finish.
I can see how water could get in the rivets, along the front of our trailer the band was full of water. We have ours slightly nose down so water flows forwards. Apparently the water in the band does the same.
I had no rivets with a metallic sound. Some the modified paperclip went in maybe 1/4 inch others it went deeper and a few it felt like I was sticking into something as there was a slight resistance when I removed the paperclip. I'm going to fill all of them to prevent future problems when we have a dry day. None seem to be leaking I checked inside very carefully looking for water.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by Bobbito

How would moisture cause the fiberglass walls to warp?

Think about it. Not all the walls are fiberglass. Oh yeah.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by ice-breaker

Notifying all owners of every potential issue that arises in an Escape may not always be the best approach to resolving problems with the least amount of impact to all. I expect that Reace personally reviewed this issue, including details regarding the numbers of trailers that were potentially impacted and the consequences of rivet failures, and made his own decision as to the best approach for dealing with it and notifying impacted customers.

Yes, but they're checking trailers that are taken up there. To me, that says they're aware it could be a bad situation, such as what happened to Linda's trailer. Sounds like Ken's trailer is having some rivet problems and it could have lead to leaks. And yeah, MOLD! Entire buildings/houses have been torn down and all that due to mold. Schools shut down. Not something that's fun to deal with. Lots of health issues with it. And not something I'd want to worry about in my trailer. Especially a brand new trailer.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by wetzk

I had no rivets with a metallic sound. Some the modified paperclip went in maybe 1/4 inch others it went deeper and a few it felt like I was sticking into something as there was a slight resistance when I removed the paperclip. I'm going to fill all of them to prevent future problems when we have a dry day. None seem to be leaking I checked inside very carefully looking for water.

Wow, Ken, what a pain filling in all those rivet spots. But, very glad you checked. Also, very glad you didn't have any leaks.

I always check inside the trailer after washing it to make sure there hasn't been any leaks. So far, knock on wood, it's been dry.

Oh hey, you might want to let ETI know the results of your rivet testing (and what kind of thingie did you use? ). They should be aware of what's going on and that it's not just Linda's trailer that had this happen to.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Linda you must be a Saint kind of like the Linda that lives here . I'm sorry but if that was my new trailer , it goes back replaced with another new trailer . Either they come pick it up or if I can I will bring it back . As Laura has mentioned I would be concerned with mold . I think there was someone on the forum that had his 5 th replaced because of flooding . His was replaced with insurance . Yours is brand new . A difference in my mind . Wood doesn't like water and can't dry out completely . If this as you described , you should be taken care of . The Linda in this house feels exactly as I do . She is a lot nicer then I am . I feel really bad you had to go through this . I hope you are taken care of . So sorry . Pat

And you should know all about mold, Pat, since you've done many a home repair and/or remodeling work over the years.

[wetzk]

Originally Posted by NW Cat Owner

Yes, but they're checking trailers that are taken up there. To me, that says they're aware it could be a bad situation, such as what happened to Linda's trailer. Sounds like Ken's trailer is having some rivet problems and it could have lead to leaks. And yeah, MOLD! Entire buildings/houses have been torn down and all that due to mold. Schools shut down. Not something that's fun to deal with. Lots of health issues with it. And not something I'd want to worry about in my trailer. Especially a brand new trailer.

I do not know if ours will ever leak. But I plan to touch each rivet with Captain Tolleys crack cure. And after that dries and I'm sure water cannot leak in from outside the rivet I'll fill the inside and smear sealant on the outside to seal the rivets.
I have dicor non leveling lap sealant I can inject into the rivet hole. Hopefully that brand meets the approval of the " I hate silicone crowd

Edit, I did not hear the metallic sound but that could be due to my paperclip being normal size not a big one.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by wetzk

Edit, I did not hear the metallic sound but that could be due to my paperclip being normal size not a big one.

I guess the size of your thingie does matter after all.

Sorry, but I really couldn't resist that. Actually, not sorry at all.

[Mucram]

Ok now worried. Walked the new 17b & 3 of the corners can see a gap on belly band. Should I be worried?

[Santiago]

Sounds like we should all test the integrity of the belly band rivets and if needed repair with sealant before significant water flow due to hosing down or rain AND trailer attitude is such that it assists water intrusion.

I have seen first hand how destructive mold can be when it gets a foothold and allowed to spread. I rather make sure that won't happen to my trailer.

What clear steps can I follow to inspect all rivets ? I hear about using a paper clip, using light, etc ? I assume the belly band need to be removed first ? How do we do that without destroying it ?

[Kountrykamper]

I did the described rivet check tonight. I used a small Allen wrench to do the tapping and it was very easy to hear the metallic sound when tapping. I did find one rivet on DS midway that had no sound so put a dab of Proflex in it. It took about 15 minutes to do the check. Fairly easy once you get going.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Mucram

Ok now worried. Walked the new 17b & 3 of the corners can see a gap on belly band. Should I be worried?

The gap is caused because the channel material doesn't make an exactly flush turn around the corners. It doesnt mean the rivets are loose, or that it will leak. The only potential source for the leaks is not the channel, but the rivets that hold it on.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Santiago

What clear steps can I follow to inspect all rivets ? I hear about using a paper clip, using light, etc ? I assume the belly band need to be removed first ? How do we do that without destroying it ?

If you feel it's needed Santiago, you can remove the vinyl trim by removing the screws and caps that hold each end of it down (by the door) and just pulling it out. It wont harm it at all. Once you've checked the rivets, just reinsert it by placing one edge in the bottom side of the channel, and bending it to pop it in the upper channel. Very easy to do.

You'll find that the screws that hold the end caps down also go through the ends of the vinyl trim. That's to hold the ends in place in the event the vinyl shrinks over a long period of time due to weather exposure. Just run the screws through the same holes in the vinyl when you reattach it. I add a little dab of sealant around those two screw holes as well.

[wetzk]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

If you feel it's needed Santiago, you can remove the vinyl trim by removing the screws and caps that hold each end of it down (by the door) and just pulling it out. It wont harm it at all. Once you've checked the rivets, just reinsert it by placing one edge in the bottom side of the channel, and bending it to pop it in the upper channel. Very easy to do.

You'll find that the screws that hold the end caps down also go through the ends of the vinyl trim. That's to hold the ends in place in the event the vinyl shrinks over a long period of time due to weather exposure. Just run the screws through the same holes in the vinyl when you reattach it. I add a little dab of sealant around those two screw holes as well.

And you really do not need to go that far. Just start at the door way and push down or up and a bit of the band will come out of the channel. Then remove a few feet of it and test. I'd use the allen wrench that was mentioned as a small paperclip does not make any sound. Reinsert the tested area and pull a few more feet loose. It does not take long to test as long as you do not do it in the sun. The vinyl expands when hot and is harder to get back in the channel.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by wetzk

And you really do not need to go that far. Just start at the door way and push down or up and a bit of the band will come out of the channel. Then remove a few feet of it and test. I'd use the allen wrench that was mentioned as a small paperclip does not make any sound. Reinsert the tested area and pull a few more feet loose. It does not take long to test as long as you do not do it in the sun. The vinyl expands when hot and is harder to get back in the channel.

That's true. You can pull some of it out without removing it entirely. Good point.

[Santiago]

Bryan, thanks for the clarification.

I know I can't walk up to the trailer with small Allen wrench and tap what ? I figured the vinyl would need to be removed in part or whole but did not read that until now.

Bryan, I agree ETI should have used another method to attach the decorative trim around the mold joint. I shudder when I see rivets through the hull ( another hole ). Now there are many all around the trailer at whatever spacing. The biggest reason I was attracted to Escape from day one was that they attached most everything inside with blocking. Half the weight of my old Scamp were the rivets, even the curtain rods were drilled through the hull and riveted.

Thank you for your input.

[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by wetzk

And you really do not need to go that far. Just start at the door way and push down or up and a bit of the band will come out of the channel. Then remove a few feet of it and test. I'd use the allen wrench that was mentioned as a small paperclip does not make any sound. Reinsert the tested area and pull a few more feet loose. It does not take long to test as long as you do not do it in the sun. The vinyl expands when hot and is harder to get back in the channel.

very good info. good to know.