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Old 11-03-2017, 05:30 PM   #81
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From my limited research and personal observation of signage at gas stations it appears that two primary causes of fires at gas stations are static electricity ignition usually caused by women getting back into the car once the fuel has started flowing into the tank and cell phone usage while fueling.by either men or women. Also portable fuel containers not being placed on the ground before fuel is started into the container.
Dave, I'm with you on the static electricity from getting back in the car or not grounding your containers. Both have been proven to cause fires in the right situation. The cell phone one, not so much. I think it's been thoroughly debunked. There was even an episode about it on Mythbusters.
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:32 PM   #82
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There was even an episode about it on Mythbusters.
I sure miss that show!
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:34 PM   #83
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I know others routinely go into gas stations with their trailers.
Yup, sometimes twice a day on cross-country jaunts.

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Old 11-03-2017, 05:40 PM   #84
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I would not want to be at a gas station fire with even my car and it's 10 gallon gas tank. The only safe solution then becomes, never go to a gas station?

The fact that there were 5000 gas station fires is only relevant to this discussion if ANY of those were actually started by an RV's refrigerator running on LP.

My guess (and since we have no actual links showing any real statistics of gas station fires started by RV fridges my guess is as relevant as any statements) is that I have a better chance of winning the lottery than to have my fridge start a fire at a gas station. And my odds of being killed by lightning are probably vastly higher.
Eric, I hope you are never at one of these gas station fires (with your propane on) and that you win the lottery BIG instead --- chances are most likely that neither will happen --- but both do happen to some people, unfortunately and fortunately.
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:46 PM   #85
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I sure miss that show!
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:47 PM   #86
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Hi Robert, well like I said limited research. But I know static electricity is very real in many facets of everyday life. There must be a compilation of statistics somewhere that breaks down service station fires. There are quite a few golfers who die each year by getting struck by lightning and a few that are stung to death by wasps, hornets and angry bees. We had a guy whack a bald faced hornet nest with his backswing and he got stung badly but recovered after a couple days in the hospital. They sent me out to remove the nest, which I did many times in my career. Your tax dollars at work.
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Old 11-03-2017, 06:43 PM   #87
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Hi Robert, well like I said limited research. But I know static electricity is very real in many facets of everyday life.
Dave
Dave,

I was talking to a fire marshal in a small town in Idaho this summer just before July 4th. He was in charge of the annual fireworks display and we were discussing safety. A couple of years prior, two guys on the team got their arms burned and had a close call when they were setting up the mortars. Turns out they were wearing "Under Armor" shirts that created enough static spark to set off the ignitors!

Now all volunteers are required to wear only 100% cotton while working with the fireworks.

Moral of the story is I'm going to keep my propane fired fridge far away from fireworks stands and other similar hazards!
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Old 11-03-2017, 06:53 PM   #88
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It seems from the fire link, that the lions share of gas station fires were caused by the passenger cars. No specifics, but I would think that when you start the car up it could cause sparking with the ignition system or somehow folks ignite the gas while fueling.

I would conclude then, the safe way in and out of a gas station would be to put the car in neutral about 300 yards out, turn off the engine and coast into the pump. After fueling, push the car out about 50yards till clear of the pumps, then get in and start it up. Should work as long as no one else does anything to cause a problem.
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Old 11-03-2017, 08:18 PM   #89
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It seems from the fire link, that the lions share of gas station fires were caused by the passenger cars. No specifics, but I would think that when you start the car up it could cause sparking with the ignition system or somehow folks ignite the gas while fueling.

I would conclude then, the safe way in and out of a gas station would be to put the car in neutral about 300 yards out, turn off the engine and coast into the pump. After fueling, push the car out about 50yards till clear of the pumps, then get in and start it up. Should work as long as no one else does anything to cause a problem.
Sounds like a plan Greg. How good is your traveling companion at pushing?
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Old 11-03-2017, 09:28 PM   #90
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It seems from the fire link, that the lions share of gas station fires were caused by the passenger cars. No specifics, but I would think that when you start the car up it could cause sparking with the ignition system or somehow folks ignite the gas while fueling.

I would conclude then, the safe way in and out of a gas station would be to put the car in neutral about 300 yards out, turn off the engine and coast into the pump. After fueling, push the car out about 50yards till clear of the pumps, then get in and start it up. Should work as long as no one else does anything to cause a problem.

I'm not sure the folks on the news tonight would bother doing that. Heck, he didn't even stop dragging on his cigarette while filling his tank. Pretty spectacular footage, especially when his companion pulled out the flaming nozzle and moved it away. Flames all over the pumps and from the open gas cap. But they died down and nothing exploded.

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Old 11-03-2017, 11:48 PM   #91
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I'm not sure the folks on the news tonight would bother doing that. Heck, he didn't even stop dragging on his cigarette while filling his tank. Pretty spectacular footage, especially when his companion pulled out the flaming nozzle and moved it away. Flames all over the pumps and from the open gas cap. But they died down and nothing exploded.
This one?
Video: Gas station pump catches fire

Sort of a demonstration of "what not to do", including pulling the flaming and fuel-spewing nozzle out and doing a flamethrower routine.
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:20 AM   #92
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I hesitate to get involved in all this, but...I’m going to just lob this in anyway.

It occurs to me that for those who consider propane use while refueling hazardous, shutting the propane off at the tank does not remove that danger. The hazard isn’t the propane in the lines, but rather the ignition source. And fridges, water heaters and furnaces will all continue to attempt to auto ignite, at least a few times, after the propane is turned off, right? So does it not follow that it matters not whether propane is on or off, but instead that all electro-spark igniters are off?

Ok, I’m just going over behind that berm there now.
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:28 AM   #93
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True.
And, you should probably shut off the fuel source at the pump as well since it leads to underground tanks full of high-octane gas.
And then there is the power and switching devices in the pump itself. Best shut those down as well.
And, now to bed.
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Old 11-04-2017, 04:57 AM   #94
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I hesitate to get involved in all this, but...I’m going to just lob this in anyway.

It occurs to me that for those who consider propane use while refueling hazardous, shutting the propane off at the tank does not remove that danger. The hazard isn’t the propane in the lines, but rather the ignition source. And fridges, water heaters and furnaces will all continue to attempt to auto ignite, at least a few times, after the propane is turned off, right? So does it not follow that it matters not whether propane is on or off, but instead that all electro-spark igniters are off?

Ok, I’m just going over behind that berm there now.
Agreed. I think the idea is to turn off the respective device inside the trailer while fueling. The furnace thermostat, and hot water tank switch should already be turned off while underway. That leaves the fridge. Just hold the “mode” switch until all indicator lights go out, and the fridge is now off as well. The devices will not spark if turned off. One doesn’t even need to close the propane tanks if all the devices are off.

After fueling, pull away from the pumps, stop and turn the fridge back on. Easy peasy.
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:00 AM   #95
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Agreed. I think the idea is to turn off the respective device inside the trailer while fueling. The furnace thermostat, and hot water tank switch should already be turned off while underway. That leaves the fridge. Just hold the “mode” switch until all indicator lights go out, and the fridge is now off as well. The devices will not spark if turned off. One doesn’t even need to close the propane tanks if all the devices are off.

After fueling, pull away from the pumps, stop and turn the fridge back on. Easy peasy.
That's what I was thinking to do . Pat
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:31 AM   #96
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Just for the fun of it I'll wade into this discussion. I've been towing a trailer for 40 years. The day before I leave for a trip I fire up my fridge on propane and it's on until the day I get home. Even if I've had hook ups for part of the trip it's always on propane because it stays colder that way by not changing over from gas to electric all the time and plus we do the bulk of our camping of the grid anyway. When I fuel up I use an outside end pump which would put my fridge at least 20 to 25 ft from the pump.

A couple of things to note, try finding a gas station that has a sign that regarding open flames ........ Costco is the only one I know of around here. Their are signs regarding static electricity, smoking and cell phones (??). Gasoline vapours need to be at a certain concentration with air before they will catch fire. Even if 2 or 3 gallons of gas was on the ground near the pump the vapour concentration, in the open air of a gas station, would never be at a high enough concentration at the fridge to cause ignition. Gasoline vapours, like propane, are heavier than air so all the vapours are at ground level so any resulting spill that could potentially use my fridge as an ignition source would have to be near the fridge and above the fridge.

Filling a gas can in your truck is FAR more dangerous and yet you see that all the time when people fill up the gas tank of an ATV that is in the back of their truck. You have the potential for static electricity combined with a large concentration of gas vapours at the neck of the ATV. Getting back into your vehicle on very cold dry day while you let your tank fill up, which you also see all the time, is also far more dangerous. You have the potential to build up a static electric shock on your body and then if you touch the vehicle near the filler cap after getting out then you have the potential to ignite the large concentration of vapour coming out of the gas tank.

In my mind if the safety authorities considered this a huge problem their would be signs at all gas stations requiring propane fridges to be off while refueling.

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Old 11-04-2017, 12:42 PM   #97
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When I was a kid I worked at a gas station and used to watch folks fill up their cars and trucks while smoking. Now of course that is a practice that is a bit frowned upon. I have traveled many a mile with my propane tank open and my fridge on. Yes, there is a risk, but I think it is minimal. Simply driving on a two lane road is the biggest traveling risk most of us will face. It is sad to read of the number of people getting hit by drunk drivers.
PS I also agree with Doug's post a while back...roll on!
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