Utah Escape Registration 2021

[kavm]

Thank you! That’s a good idea. I too was thinking that different offices seem to have different standards/policies!

[Centex]

Getting far afield from kavm's Utah situation, and I apologize for starting that earlier in this thread, but in TX ...

• TXDMV 'writes the rules' and provides a convenient checklist (see attached for the current TXDMV steps, they have changed over recent years) but the final step #4 of actually getting the license plate (and title, registration, making sales tax payment) is conducted in one quick visit by/at the office of the local County Clerk/Tax Assessor-Collector, not a TXDMV office.
• Local County folks may vary depending on where you are in TX; in the rural county where I've lived for 30+ years the County Staff are helpful, friendly, cooperative, supportive, etc. They are also competent at their job, stay current with the rules imposed by TXDMV, and they uniformly follow / apply them. They aren't idiots, they'll see from the Bill-of-Sale / MSO that the trailer is imported from Canada even if I don't volunteer that 'detail'. (all reasons for kudos, IMO)
• Step 1 on the attached, "Properly import your vehicle", is totally taken care of by ETI and their contract transporter, between them they provide all the required importation and FMVSS-compliance documentation in their normal course of business with US customers.
• Step 2 on the attached, "Safety inspection", is a one-time-only thing for imported trailers (based on GTWR less than 7500# TX does not currently require annual safety inspection of any model Escape trailer). This is a quick-stop at any of several regular vehicle inspection stations in the area (it's nothing but a 'lights, tires, and ID-plate check' on trailers in the Escape's GTWR category, costs ~$7 set by by State law).
• Step 3 on the attached, "VIN inspection", is done by my County Sheriff's auto theft investigator, we've already visited, they'll do most anytime I ask on short notice and will waive any fee they are allowed to charge under State law.
• I've got no problem with any of this, no reason to 'shop' for an incompetent clerk that may 'shortcut' the rules, it's a straightforward and workable process, IMO.

No Worries!

(sorry for causing the sidetrack, kavm, let's get back to your Utah situation )

[kavm]

No worries! I am sure this question is relevant to others, so it is all good!

[DanandDaphne]

Originally Posted by Centex

Getting far afield from kavm's Utah situation, and I apologize for starting that earlier in this thread, but in TX ...

• TXDMV 'writes the rules' and provides a convenient checklist (see attached for the current TXDMV steps, they have changed over recent years) but the final step #4 of actually getting the license plate (and title, registration, making sales tax payment) is conducted in one quick visit by/at the office of the local County Clerk/Tax Assessor-Collector, not a TXDMV office.
• Local County folks may vary depending on where you are in TX; in the rural county where I've lived for 30+ years the County Staff are helpful, friendly, cooperative, supportive, etc. They are also competent at their job, stay current with the rules imposed by TXDMV, and they uniformly follow / apply them. They aren't idiots, they'll see from the Bill-of-Sale / MSO that the trailer is imported from Canada even if I don't volunteer that 'detail'. (all reasons for kudos, IMO)
• Step 1 on the attached, "Properly import your vehicle", is totally taken care of by ETI and their contract transporter, between them they provide all the required importation and FMVSS-compliance documentation in their normal course of business with US customers.
• Step 2 on the attached, "Safety inspection", is a one-time-only thing for imported trailers (based on GTWR less than 7500# TX does not currently require annual safety inspection of any model Escape trailer). This is a quick-stop at any of several regular vehicle inspection stations in the area (it's nothing but a 'lights, tires, and ID-plate check' on trailers in the Escape's GTWR category, costs ~$7 set by by State law).
• Step 3 on the attached, "VIN inspection", is done by my County Sheriff's auto theft investigator, we've already visited, they'll do most anytime I ask on short notice and will waive any fee they are allowed to charge under State law.
• I've got no problem with any of this, no reason to 'shop' for an incompetent clerk that may 'shortcut' the rules, it's a straightforward and workable process, IMO.

No Worries!

(sorry for causing the sidetrack, kavm, let's get back to your Utah situation )

That would be nice to have a standard practice like you have in TX.

I wish it were that way here in Colorado. It's not so much about finding an incompetent clerk that may 'shortcut' the rules, it's the exact opposite.

I find it very frustrating that the Ouray county won't issue a temporary tag even though the state allows up to 90 days. I have always bought used vehicles and this has been an issue every time.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by DanandDaphne

That would be nice to have a standard practice like you have in TX. ... I wish it were that way here in Colorado.

Well, the standard 'rule and procedure' is well-established and communicated by TXDMV ..... but I'm sure that across the state of Texas' 254 counties there's no shortage of local (county) staffers that aren't up to speed with them and don't apply them as "standard practice".

[dlakeman]

It could be worse. In NV I had to get a lien search in all of Canada. Say what! How does someone put a lien on a trailer still at the manufacturer that's never been owned by anyone. More government idiots. I paid $30 to get a lien search in BC. DMV accepted it.

I had the trailer shipped to Las Vegas, and towed it 90 miles to Mesquite without tags. I had the VIN inspection done by a Nevada State Trooper friend of mine. He asked me how I got the trailer to Mesquite. I was honest. I towed it. He said if I had been stopped and explained the situation Troopers would have let me continue provided I had insurance. The VIN inspection was to ensure trailer wasn't stolen. My friend laughed; it's kind of hard to have a stolen trailer when it's coming directly from the manufacturer.

[DanandDaphne]

When I called the county clerks office to register our trailer the woman I talked to on the phone said we would need a VIN inspection as well. Luckily when I brought the paperwork in I got the county clerk instead of the woman I spoke to on the phone. She didn't ask for a VIN inspection and I was out the door with plates.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by Dave & Penny Smith

Mike:

Welcome to the family of Escape owners! We purchased our 17B back in 2015 and have really enjoyed it. I don't remember any particular difficulty in registering it (other than the pain of having to pay the sales tax). As I recall, Utah does require a completed form TC-661 (which you can print on-line at the UT Tax Commission's website). This is a Certificate of Inspection which we had mailed to Escape and they had completed for us--we picked it up when we picked up the trailer. Take your bill of sale with you.

Good luck and enjoy your trailer!
Dave

Just to report - we completely stuck out with ETI. The ETI representative refused to sign the form the Utah TC-661 that we had provided them months ago for us. I was shocked and disappointed at the lack of consideration. The signatory of the form is certifying the correctness of the VIN number. It is possible/likely that the State of Utah would not have accepted their certification but that ETI would not be comfortable certifying the correctness of the VIN number that they are putting on the trailer was incredible to us! I mentioned that the form does not require ETI to misrepresent anything and that it has provided this in the past to other Utah customers (Dave and Penny Smith, for example). But, it went nowhere.

We are definitely off to a poor start in our post-sales relationship with ETI. Still looking forward to the camper but not to the future relationship with ETI.

We are on our own in this matter for our two week trip back from Sumas to SLC. I am going to search for the DMVs in WA and Oregon and hope to patch together some half way solutions and hope for the luck to help out with the gaps.

[oldwave]

In Ohio we got a temp tag from the BMI with the initial paperwork from etc, when we returned I had to take the trailer to the BMI for a vin inspection in person, then it was titled. Isn’t Utah similar ?

[David S]

Originally Posted by kavm

Just to report - we completely stuck out with ETI. The ETI representative refused to sign the form the Utah TC-661 that we had provided them months ago for us. I was shocked and disappointed at the lack of consideration. The signatory of the form is certifying the correctness of the VIN number.

I picked up my Oliver Trailer in 2016 in Tennessee. Yes, it is made in the US and not Canadian, but I think my experience is valid. The Utah DMV told me that I needed to get the VIN number certified, and they suggested I ask a mechanic to do it and sign the TC-661 form. So I towed the trailer into a Jiffy Lube (with sufficient space for the car and trailer); the guy looked at the VIN sticker and signed the form. I offered to pay him, but he said no, not for one minute's effort.
Hope this helps.

[cpaharley2008]

I'm not surprised at the failure rate of pre-registration. Most states require an inspection, by a state official to verify vin# and trailer info. Unless you take it to an office for the inspection, no registration.

[Dave & Penny Smith]

Kavm:

Sorry to hear of your difficulties with Escape--their unwillingness to sign the form verifying the VIN seems inexcusable. Hopefully it will soon be only a minor bad memory in your enjoyment of your new trailer!

Dave

[kavm]

Originally Posted by Dave & Penny Smith

Kavm:

Sorry to hear of your difficulties with Escape--their unwillingness to sign the form verifying the VIN seems inexcusable. Hopefully it will soon be only a minor bad memory in your enjoyment of your new trailer!

Dave

Thank you Dave! Appreciate it. I will get over it but their response was definitely incredible to me... In the end, what matters is that we are happy with the camper.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by David S

I picked up my Oliver Trailer in 2016 in Tennessee. Yes, it is made in the US and not Canadian, but I think my experience is valid. The Utah DMV told me that I needed to get the VIN number certified, and they suggested I ask a mechanic to do it and sign the TC-661 form. So I towed the trailer into a Jiffy Lube (with sufficient space for the car and trailer); the guy looked at the VIN sticker and signed the form. I offered to pay him, but he said no, not for one minute's effort.
Hope this helps.

Thank you! Our challenge is that we get our hands on the camper on the Memorial Day in Sumas, WA. So, only party that can sign the TC-661 is ETI. Had they done that, I'd have tried it with the DMV. Even if they that turned us down, they might have taken mercy on us and at least offered temporary tags. Now, I do not have a leg to stand on.

Also, Escape wanted $50 to ship us the paperwork without TC-661. I did not find it worth the money without a signed TC-661.

So, we will just see what happens. I will try to get a 3-day pass in WA (still trying to figure out how), and then one in Oregon. But - all that is work in progress. I have a feeling I'd be on a tourist trip to the DMVs around the various states...

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by kavm

Thank you Dave! Appreciate it. I will get over it but their response was definitely incredible to me... In the end, what matters is that we are happy with the camper.

Did you ask them why they can't or won't provide the signed form?

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Did you ask them why they can't or won't provide the signed form?

I'm wondering if it has to do with the importing into the US process? Or, those documents are proof of ownership which is also the date an owner takes possession and the warranty period starts?

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I'm wondering if it has to do with the importing into the US process? Or, those documents are proof of ownership which is also the date an owner takes possession and the warranty period starts?

There's usually a reason.
Similar to gas shut-offs inside the trailer. Likely contrary to code.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Did you ask them why they can't or won't provide the signed form?

Of course! The legal beagle I spoke with found that since Escape is both a manufacturer and a dealer - and is not in a position to certify the VIN as it also the assigning party. This made zero sense to me, but the clarity of thinking behind it left me speechless.

The section of form being signed is called Inspection Certification. The language to which one is putting one's signature to says:

"...DMV employee, designated contractor, Utah peace officer, licensed dealer or a certified safety inspector may sign below verifying that the officer or agent has physically inspected the identification number (VIN/HIN) as it appears on the unit...." It is fairly vague and open to interpretation, but definitely does not say that dealer who is also a manufacturer (how ETI sees itself) cannot sign it. The certification itself states:

This is to certify that I have personally inspected the unit described above and find the description to be correct.

Anyone signing it can only be risking legal jeopardy if they did not did not verify the VIN, or other information stated on the form (i.e. that it is a trailer is a 2021 Escape TA 5th wheel 21'2" in length) or impersonated someone else.

I am no lawyer but their explanation made zero sense. Of course, the State of Utah could not find ETI's certification insufficient to give us the tags - but that's for the State of Utah to decide. Regardless of what the State of Utah decided, it could hardly penalize ETI for making a true statement in their capacity as, well, themselves!

For ETI person to look for this contorted rationale to deny this completely reasonable request (and one that they have complied with in the past) was an absolute turn off. Most companies look for ways to facilitate and not obstruct customers when they are leaving the shop with item priced North of $40K. I did not see an iota of that. Hence the reaction.

[gbaglo]

"The legal beagle I spoke with found that since Escape is both a manufacturer and a dealer - and is not in a position to certify the VIN as it also the assigning party."
Makes sense to me. Similar to witnessing a will.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

"The legal beagle I spoke with found that since Escape is both a manufacturer and a dealer - and is not in a position to certify the VIN as it also the assigning party."
Makes sense to me. Similar to witnessing a will.

I beg to differ. I repeat - the language of certification is:

This is to certify that I have personally inspected the unit described above and find the description to be correct.

And, ETI has previously done the same certification - see post #2 in this thread for an instance.