Water pump air/spitting water

[HANK]

Morning,


Looking for ideas. I've sent this inquiry to Escape, and have been working through their suggestions, but haven't resolved yet.


Picked up 21NE last month, and leaving for first trip. New to trailers. First time filling water.


I filled tank, and opened water heater valves to normal position. Got water to come out of the pressure relief valve on the outside. Pumped 10 gallons and water spit the entire time, both sinks. I hooked up to city water, and achieved smooth flow. Switched back to tank and pumped out the rest of the tank, and water spit/never had smooth flow. Refilled tank. Checked for loose connections to water pump. Checked winterizing T valve was vertical position, tried to prime the pump per ETI video "Water pump trouble shooting." Then pumped 30 gallons out, and it spit/never got smooth water flow. ETI support is 3 hours behind me, so looking for any other suggestions.


Thanks

[Iowa Dave]

Did you open every valve where fresh water can come out.
That is sink in bathroom, sink in kitchen area, shower head,
Flush the toilet a couple times, and if you have it , the outside water supply. They can spit for quite a while.
As long as your connections including the water filter cap on the pump are tight and not cracked, the air in the system will eventually come out. I have never purposely primed the pump, I let it run and it eventually loads to just pushing water without spitting air. Make sure you have plenty of water in the fresh water tank too. That’s about all I know about it releasing the pop off valve on the hot water is good, just make sure it has reseated tightly too when you flip the lever back over center. Others may have additional suggestions.
Iowa Dave

[UncleTim]

Go check the water pump itself. It has a anti freeze bypass. It is possible that little valve is open and sucking in air. In this picture, the valve is in the lower right hand corner and fully closed.

If so, close it.

[HANK]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

Did you open every valve where fresh water can come out.
That is sink in bathroom, sink in kitchen area, shower head,
Flush the toilet a couple times, and if you have it , the outside water supply. They can spit for quite a while.
As long as your connections including the water filter cap on the pump are tight and not cracked, the air in the system will eventually come out. I have never purposely primed the pump, I let it run and it eventually loads to just pushing water without spitting air. Make sure you have plenty of water in the fresh water tank too. That’s about all I know about it releasing the pop off valve on the hot water is good, just make sure it has reseated tightly too when you flip the lever back over center. Others may have additional suggestions.
Iowa Dave

I had not done every valve. I just refilled now and tried all valves in this order: driver side exterior valve, shower sink, shower wand, flushed toilet, kitchen sink, passenger side exterior valve. I think I saw improvement, but pump runs nonstop when turned on, so it hasn't pressurized. Thanks for the tips, I think I'll cycle through them again.

[HANK]

Originally Posted by UncleTim

Go check the water pump itself. It has a anti freeze bypass. It is possible that little valve is open and sucking in air. In this picture, the valve is in the lower right hand corner and fully closed.

If so, close it.

Thank you, mine is in the correct position.

[Iowa Dave]

There is an Allen head pressure cutoff Adjustment screw on the pump. Sometimes that needs turned to stop the pump from running. You should have an Allen wrench with the manual and papers that came with the trailer. The manual shows how to adjust it I believe. Sorry I’m not near my escape at this time. Others may have a picture and process description and Allen wrench size if you don’t have one. I have a fractional Allen set in my tool box. One of those “fold out” jobs. It’s handy once in a while. On our 19 Escape if the pump was left on every few minutes the pump would come on for a couple seconds or occasionally run real slow for a minute or so. I adjusted the Allen screw and it didn’t do it any more. I always called it “pump creep” for lack of a technical term.
Iowa Dave

[UncleTim]

I vote for Dave's idea.

It is possible there is a crack or something that is open to atmosphere in the system. That could explain why the pump continues to run. Because it is not completely filling demand so it keeps pumping. Which means there is also a leak.

I don't think this is it, but it could be.

I think it is one of three things.
1. Bad pump.
2. Air leak before pump.
3. Water leak that causes the pump to run.

I have a leak around the toilet, that is hard to get to, that causes the pump to turn on once in a while. It is a small leak, but the pump does come on.

[Iowa Dave]

Some owners have experienced a hairline crack in the cap that you remove to access the screen filter on the inlet side of the pump. That can suck air too. You can get just the cap I think. Check it closely and when you reinstall just snug it up, don’t use a metal tool ( pliers etc).
Iowa Dave

[HANK]

I inspected the clear filter cap, and hand tightened it back on. Looked good.



I can adjust the the pump pressure screw - saw the video from ETI.



Question:



If it's spitting water, and I close all valves, should the pump turn off?



The ETI service guy indicated: The pump will turn on and off with the faucet once all of the air has been removed from the water system, the pump works off of pressure and it will not pressurize with air in the lines.

[cpaharley2008]

If it's spitting water, and I close all valves, should the pump turn off?

yes

[HANK]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

If it's spitting water, and I close all valves, should the pump turn off?

yes

Thank you, that's what I would have thought. So I'll try to adjust.

[UncleTim]

Yes too.

That pump works on demand. Plus when it is on, it should be pumping water.

[KLRchickie]

I wouldn’t be adjusting anything until you get all the air out of the lines. That spitting is an indication of air bubbles, which can take what seems like a very long time to clear.

While there are air pockets in your water lines, your pump can’t pressure up the lines enough to know that it is time to shut off. It only works when the lines are full of water.

*After* the system has pressured up well, periodic short bursts of pump activity while you’re not using water *can* indicate a slow leak somewhere in your water system. They can also mean that the hot water in your water heater is getting cold... cold water takes up less room and the pump may need to add a little more pressure to the system.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by HANK

Thank you, that's what I would have thought. So I'll try to adjust.

Check the screw on cap of the filter . Ours when new had a crack from stainless screen . Replaced with instead of flat ,the domed cap and that was in 2013 never any problems since concerning filter since . Pat.

[HANK]

Thank you all for your help. Currently I have smooth flow from city water, and improved flow when pumping - still spits some intermittently. I have pumped from the tank a total of 120 gallons - 4 fills. Since I'm leaving for our trip, I'll have to come back to this issue. Our first trip is city water hook up, so we'll be fine. But I want to figure this out before our June trip to Glacier NP.



I did adjust the pump 1/2 turn and it then shuts off correctly. I may have to adjust back at some point.



Many thanks again for all the input. We've tent camped for years, but the trailer thing is all new.

[Iowa Dave]

Sage advice from my Dad many years ago. “Count the turns and remember which way you went or count the turns going all the way closed then you can always back out to where you started”. On chainsaws those carburetor adjustment screws can move due to vibration. The first part of a tuneup is to check the factory settings in the manual and go from there. ( cost me $17 to “remember” that one or is it re-learn?
Iowa Dave

[Viajante]

When the pump is running and spitting water try holding your finger over the antifreeze inlet port on the winterizing “T” valve. Hold it there for a minute to give the pump time to clear the line. If that doesn’t work I would disconnect the T valve from the pump and connect the water uptake line directly to the pump. Be sure there is a washer and that the connection seats firmly.

[Warmhat]

Hi Hank,
I've had exactly the same problem; picked up my trailer a month ago. If I hook up to city water, as you did, I find that I can push all the air out of the lines, but as soon as I turn the pump back on and draw water from the tank, air enters the lines again. When examining the pump, I can see air entering the lines when the pump is turned off. I also have found a small water drip from the nut between the filter and pump. I've tried plumber's tape on the threads. I suspect it's a problem with the nut, but I don't have one to compare it with; it seems oddly shaped at the side closest to the filter. I have had several RV's over the years, have seen this problem before, have always been able to fix it. Something is not right here.
I also have sent a note to Escape Trailers, as I believe this to be a defective part.

[UncleTim]

Originally Posted by Warmhat

When examining the pump, I can see air entering the lines when the pump is turned off. Something is not right here.
I also have sent a note to Escape Trailers, as I believe this to be a defective part.

I strongly agree. If you see a leak, you have a leak.
One way or another, you have to replace the pump, or part of it.

[Valerie]

We had that same problem when we received our E19 last April. After problem-solving with Escape on the phone to no avail, they sent us a new clear plastic cap and stainless filter, assuming it had a defect - and that did the trick. I'd go ahead and ask them to put that part it in the mail to you so when you return you can replace it.