Water Pump runs BUT water pours out of the City Water Fill Intake

[LarryandLiz]

Please help. I’m trying to get the water pump primed after the winter. ISSUE: when the pump is turned on, trailer tap opened I get a small bit of water BUT I get a strong flow of water out of the City Water Intake.

The Water Heater Bypass Valves are positioned as shown by the Owners Manual. The Winterization Line Valve (open ended tube near pump suction) is closed. Both Fresh Water Tank and Hot Water Tank are full.

When the pump is turned on I get small flow of water out of a trailer tap. BUT I get a strong gush of water pouring out of the City Water Intake. The pump runs and doesn't turn off.

Any advise or suggestions from Forum Members? Last year, for the first time rather than using anti-freeze, we blew water out the lines with an air compressor. (it seemed like a good idea at the time).

Thanks for any help with this frustrating problem.

Larry (who is very non-technical).

[LarryandLiz]

1. Fill fresh water tank.
2. Ensure all valves are in proper position. Lever inline with pipe is open; lever perpendicular to a pipe is closed. Winterization line valve on open ended tube near pump suction must be closed. Hot water bypass can be open or closed and pump should still work. You can fill the hot water tank from the fresh tank with the pump but it will take awhile as it is 6 gallons and need to bleed the air out.
3. Check 12V pump fuse in power center.
4. Check that pump inlet strainer is clean and no kinks in lines. Strainer is 50 mesh which is quite fine and can clog if water quality in tank was ever less than ideal.
5. Turn pump on at monitor panel switch. Pump is self priming by design.
6. Open cold faucet. If you think kitchen faucet aerator could be clogged then open bath faucet. Can try hot too but it makes no difference. Pump should be coming on either way.

source: http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f9...mp-8850-4.html post #31

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by LarryandLiz

ISSUE: when the pump is turned on, trailer tap opened I get a small bit of water BUT I get a strong flow of water out of the City Water Intake.

There is a check valve in the city water intake assembly which prevents water from coming out where it is supposed to go in. That valve must have failed or stuck open by debris; the water pump will push water out the city water intake if the check valve doesn't work.

What is not the cause:

• The procedure for priming the pump was successful, since the pump is pumping lots of water... out the wrong place, but lots of water so the pump is working fine.
• The water heater winterization valves could be in any position - correct or not - and not cause this problem.
• I can't imagine how blowing water out with air for winterization could have caused this problem.

[LarryandLiz]

Thanks. I've spent my Saturday on this project.....
I'll read the sticky on this Section which deals with the city water intake valve

[barry]

If there is a small amount of water in the check valve and it freezes that can ruin the valve. This happened to me on my 2005 17B. What I did was screw an inline hose shut off like this ( https://www.amazon.ca/Dramm-Watering...shut+off+valve ) to the city inlet then turn it to the off position then try the pump. If it works then that's your problem so just have it shut off when you are dry camping and turn it on when you are hooked up as a temporary fix until you get the check valve fixed.
Barry

[LarryandLiz]

Originally Posted by barry

If there is a small amount of water in the check valve and it freezes that can ruin the valve. This happened to me on my 2005 17B. What I did was screw an inline hose shut off like this ( https://www.amazon.ca/Dramm-Watering...shut+off+valve ) to the city inlet then turn it to the off position then try the pump. If it works then that's your problem so just have it shut off when you are dry camping and turn it on when you are hooked up as a temporary fix until you get the check valve fixed.
Barry

Thanks so much Brian and Barry.

I spent my Saturday from about 10-3 thinking I had somehow done somehow set the valves incorrectly. I was working alone, inside the trailer and it took quite a long time before I noticed the water coming out of the city intake.

I read the sticky thread about city intake valves and have a plastic hose bib shut-off which I just screwed into the city intake. The pump primed in two secs and water flows from all taps and the pump turns off!

Now I have to figure out how to do fix this valve. Luckily I'm retired, unluckily I sometimes make things worse. It looks like I'll be spending some time skrunched down under our permanent bed. I'm glad we have a few weeks before heading out. I'm glad this didn't happen on a road-trip.

Thanks for your help

Larry (slowly learning how to be a bit more mechanical).

EDIT TO ADD: my cheap plastic hose shut off doesn't seem to completely work. The pump works but after running a tap and turning the tap off - the pump still runs intermittently but steadily with small amounts of water coming out of the City intake. the cheap plastic hose shut off is too weak - so I'll be having to get real serious about this threads fix.

[LarryandLiz]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

There is a check valve in the city water intake assembly which prevents water from coming out where it is supposed to go in. That valve must have failed or stuck open by debris; the water pump will push water out the city water intake if the check valve doesn't work.

What is not the cause:

• I can't imagine how blowing water out with air for winterization could have caused this problem.

Brian, thanks for your help.

I'm reading at this Repairing city water check valve Thread that Doug posted http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f9...alve-2864.html.

I"m trying to figure out how this valve got damaged or loose. I remember pressing in the detritus screen over the city water line this morning - it was loose. Perhaps I pressed too hard at the screen last year while attaching the air tank attachment and this dislodged the O Ring.

Regardless, Doug's Thread seems quite complicated. I wondering if I'd be forever worried about water getting into the trailer if my connections behind the fibreglass wall leaked. So I'm thinking of replacing the entire city/gravity water hatch.

I guess my next step will be to look behind the detritus screen.

Larry

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by LarryandLiz

I"m trying to figure out how this valve got damaged or loose. I remember is pressing in the detritus screen over the city water line this morning - it was loose. Perhaps I pressed too hard at the screen last year while attaching the air tank attachment.

...

I guess my next step will be to look behind the detritus screen.

That makes sense to me. The screen should pull out easily, if it like the city water inlets that I've had.

You could pull the screen and clean it, put it back in, and try putting some water into from a hose (so the flow is in the normal direction) - that might flush out and reset the check valve without taking anything more apart, if it's just stuck. I'm not saying that this is highly likely to work, just that it's easy to try.

Originally Posted by LarryandLiz

I wondering if I'd be forever worried about water getting into the trailer if my connections behind the fibreglass wall leaked. So I'm thinking of replacing the entire city/gravity water hatch ...

Even if you replace the city water check valve, I don't think you should have to replace the hatch.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by LarryandLiz

Regardless, Doug's Thread seems quite complicated. I wondering if I'd be forever worried about water getting into the trailer if my connections behind the fibreglass wall leaked. So I'm thinking of replacing the entire city/gravity water hatch replaced.

Larry: I'm wondering if one of these could be screwed on to the city water connection in a pinch. It would put a good check valve inline with your bad check valve. Lead free so safe for drinking water.

0792086 - Watts 0792086 - 3/4" Lead Free 8B, Hose Connection Vacuum Breaker

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by LarryandLiz

... my cheap plastic hose shut off doesn't seem to completely work. The pump works but after running a tap and turning the tap off - the pump still runs intermittently but steadily with small amounts of water coming out of the City intake. the cheap plastic hose shut off is too weak - so I'll be having to get real serious about this threads fix.

I was going to suggest a 3/4 in. x 1/2 in. MGH x FIP Adapter plus a 1/2" MIP plug as a more secure temporary plug (because I haven't seen a garden hose plug that looks solid enough), but Dave's suggestion looks much better if you can find it:

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Larry: I'm wondering if one of these could be screwed on to the city water connection in a pinch. It would put a good check valve inline with your bad check valve. Lead free so safe for drinking water.

0792086 - Watts 0792086 - 3/4" Lead Free 8B, Hose Connection Vacuum Breaker

Photos of the two parts of the brass plug setup:

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

...but Dave's suggestion looks much better if you can find it

This might be available at a local Home Depot but it doesn't specifically say lead free
http://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.va...00117674.html#

[barry]

Originally Posted by LarryandLiz

EDIT TO ADD: my cheap plastic hose shut off doesn't seem to completely work. The pump works but after running a tap and turning the tap off - the pump still runs intermittently but steadily with small amounts of water coming out of the City intake. the cheap plastic hose shut off is too weak - so I'll be having to get real serious about this threads fix.

Wrap the threads with teflon tape and tighten slightly with a wrench should do the trick.

Barry

[LarryandLiz]

SO here is what I did.

First, after posting this thread and still having problems spent the evening depressed thinking about buying an Aqua-Dynamic Vacuum Breaker as a temporary fix and also considering the inconvenience and expense of replacing the entire city/gravity water hatch. I decided that I didn't want to try the repair of the O-Ring on my own - thought about getting my licensed mechanic son-in-law to do it for me.

This morning hoping for a MAGICAL CURE I took the detritus screen off the intake AND gingerly pressed several times on the check valve. (my plastic water hose shut off thingy is off).

I then went into the trailer and the tap worked perfectly - pump ran and turned off. I then asked Liz to come outside to ensure nothing was coming out of the city water intake and I tried every water function on the trailer. The water pump turned on and off like a charm.

My next action (double suspender action step) before the next trip will be to get to Rona and buy a Aqua-Dynamic Vacuum Breaker in case i somehow run into problems with this down the road.

THANKS TO EVERYONE who helped me - specially Brian and the check-valve thread. I learned way more about RV Water Systems then I could have imagined. I hope my adventure in de-winterizing will help others.

Larry

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by LarryandLiz

THANKS TO EVERYONE who helped me - specially Brian and the check-valve thread. I learned way more about RV Water Systems then I could have imagined. I hope my adventure in de-winterizing will help others.

Larry

There was a bit of learning for me too. Glad you got it working, Larry.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by LarryandLiz

I learned way more about RV Water Systems then I could have imagined.

There's nothing like problems to motivate learning! It's a bonus when the problems turn out to be minor.

[Iowa Dave]

When problem solving , I find that it's common to try about a half a dozen solutions in a row before checking whether or not the problem has been solved. And when it works, I never know what I did to remedy the problem. On water systems and electrical systems, if you think about it there are many many variables and a lot of problems are not the result of something broken. Glad you're up and running again.
Dave

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

When problem solving , I find that it's common to try about a half a dozen solutions in a row before checking whether or not the problem has been solved. And when it works, I never know what I did to remedy the problem.
Dave

Yup, one of the first mechanical tips from an old time mechanic I got as a teenager was "don't work on the carbs and the ignition at the same time" In that case it was more "what do I do wrong that made it impossible to start?"

Ron

[Iowa Dave]

My Dad always said about working on the brakes " only do one side at a time, never take both sides apart". And then there was the synchronizing of multiple carburetors and other tragedies.
Dave

[LarryandLiz]

I think I'll start a new thread on the steps people take to get their trailer ready for the spring camping season. I hope to learn something

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

When problem solving , I find that it's common to try about a half a dozen solutions in a row before checking whether or not the problem has been solved. And when it works, I never know what I did to remedy the problem. ...

One trick I learned - over and over again the hard way - was to try the easiest fix first. I've lost track of how many times I spent hours fixing something - that could have been fixed in 10 minutes.

--
Alan