Weights for 2008 5.0 Escape + 2011 Frontier

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by FMLNM

The label on the door jamb states:
GVWR 5600
GAWR FR 3296
GAWR RR 3331
Combination of Occupants & Cargo 937

I guess I am still wondering about this 937 lb figure (which is a little higher in other Frontier models but not THAT much). Even if the 'tongue' weight of the 5.0 is down to 600, that only leaves 337 for passengers, etc. And the hitch itself is pretty heavy too.

Given that, my husband and I couldn't even bring along a candy bar!
I don't know if we are not calculating this right or what...

[cpaharley2008]

A lot of 1/2 ton pick up trucks are in this category, 1/2 ton means 1,000 lbs. I have a Dodge Ram Hemi 1500, which ironically can only carry 1500 lbs, it can tow or pull close to 6 times that weight. Thus with a canopy, 2 dogs and 2 passengers, my payload is only about 800 lbs. These people that want to fill up their pick up bed with firewood and generators and bring along 4 bikes with several pop up's and the whole family while towing a trailer are in for a shock.

[cpaharley2008]

I wonder if the newer dual axle 5th will have lower pin weight?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I wonder if the newer dual axle 5th will have lower pin weight?

It might change, but I don't know why it would specifically be lower. I haven't heard of any changes in proportions, and the use of tandem axles does not in itself change the weight distribution. In conventional trailers a lower tongue weight fraction might be tolerated with tandem axles because they provide greater stability, but stability isn't generally a concern in fifth-wheels anyway.

I haven't checked Reace's mockup photo with a ruler yet, and it may not accurately reflect axle position anyway. Did anyone notice if the effective axle position shown (midpoint between the wheel hubs) is any further forward or back than the current design?

[Brian B-P]

Thanks for the numbers!

Since adding the trailer removes load from the truck's front axle, it looks like the hitch location is centred just behind the rear axle by about 5% of the wheelbase (or 6 to 7 inches); nothing wrong with that, just something to know so the effect of trailer pin weight changes on the truck can be understood.

The Frontier has greater axle capacity at the rear than the front, which is normal for trucks and good for handling the trailer load. The Frontier is also front-heavy (again, normal), so most of the available load capacity is in the rear, as intended. I was surprised that only 52% of the curb weight of the truck is on the front axle - it is often much higher than that.

The axle loads need to be kept within the axle ratings, but in this case the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is much lower than the total of the axle loads, so the GVW is likely to get too high before either axle load gets too high - that is likely to be the limiting factor. In this case, the GVWR is only 740 pounds more than the truck's weight (even worse than the listed 937 pounds of carrying capacity)... suggesting that the "truck alone" actually includes some payload, such as a driver, or just optional equipment not considered in the 937 pound carrying capacity calculation. Whatever that load is, when combined with a 720 pin weight, there's essentially nothing left... as already stated, if it isn't already in the truck, it can't be there for a trip!

Since GVWR is so limiting, the axle loads barely matter; however, they're worth checking. There's lots of room between the front's GAWR of 3296 lb and the empty load of 2520 lb, and even a bit more after the trailer transfers a bit of that load onto the rear axle. There's a huge margin between the empty rear axle load of 2340 lb and the GAWR of 3331 lb (enough for the entire payload of the truck to ride on just the rear axle), and still a couple hundred pounds after the trailer is added and rear axle load comes up to 3100 lb. GVWR is the limiting factor, not GAWR.

The truck's maximum trailer towing limit is well beyond the weight of the Escape 5.0, yet the truck is running out of capacity, because the trailer design puts lots of the load on the truck, by design. Unlike many conventional trailer setups, rated trailer weight and Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) are not significant factors, because GVWR (and possibly Rear GAWR) are more limiting.

As others have mentioned, this is a common situation with light trucks (GVWR being more restrictive than GCWR)... made worse here by the high hitch weight of the fifth-wheel trailer.

I do wonder why the pin weight is so much higher than the quoted dry weight, not as an absolute number of pounds, but as a fraction of the trailer weight. In the dry weight specs the pin carries 18% of the trailer, but in these scale readings it is carrying 22%. Aside from water (which changes in use during the trip), is there anything up front which could be carried closer to the axle to reduce the effect of pin weight on the truck? One-third (instead of one-fifth) of the added weight from dry is on the pin.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by FMLNM

I guess I am still wondering about this 937 lb figure (which is a little higher in other Frontier models but not THAT much). Even if the 'tongue' weight of the 5.0 is down to 600, that only leaves 337 for passengers, etc. And the hitch itself is pretty heavy too.

The fifth-wheel hitch is heavy, and not accounted for in Nissan's numbers so it has to come out of their 937 lb carrying capacity). That's one reason I worked from the GVWR and actual empty truck weight - this way, the hitch is included in the empty truck and thus already accounted for. That's most of the explanation of why I calculated only 740 pounds of remaining capacity, rather than 937 pounds that should be available.

A common 16,000 pound basic fifth-wheel hitch (Reese at eTrailer) weighs 132 pounds (including the cardboard box) - that's not trivial in this situation.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by FMLNM

Yeah, it seems unusually low for a pickup truck with Bilstein shocks, etc...guess we'll have to go on a diet...?

Shocks influence performance, but not axle capacity. This Pro-4X version of the truck - with good shocks and big tires - has lots of axle capacity... that's not what's running short. The limit is Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), and that may be limited by the truck's frame. GVWR is certainly not limited by the axles, suspensions, or tires: the two Gross Axle Weight Ratings total a thousand pounds higher than GVWR.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

the number that stands out to me is the #937 number, eliminating 760 of trailer leaves you a very small couple !!

The pin weight is 720 pounds (not 760), but the difference is not important and I agree with your assessment, Jim!

[FMLNM]

Fortunately, we generally don't load up with stuff either in the trailer or in the tow vehicle. We might put a couple of camping folding chairs in the truck bed along with the chocks and 2 wooden blocks for under the landing gear. Maybe a small cooler in the truck back seat along with some clothes. We do have a small microwave in the pantry cabinet but there doesn't seem to be any other place to stow it for traveling...maybe we'll need to leave it behind. We'll have to work out a way to move some of that stuff in the truck and anything else we might need to the back of the trailer.

[MyronL]

Hi-ho, Sandia-Dave... slightly off-topic but.................

Dave I have returned, with that interior trim tape you requested from Tammy. Thing is, I seem to have lost your email address. Not there in my contacts list where it should be. (Help.)

Send me an email when you can and we'll arrange to get that tape to you.
Myron

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Hi-ho, Sandia-Dave... slightly off-topic but.................

Dave I have returned, with that interior trim tape you requested from Tammy. Thing is, I seem to have lost your email address. Not there in my contacts list where it should be. (Help.)

Send me an email when you can and we'll arrange to get that tape to you.
Myron

Hi Myron,
I sent you a PM with our email address...let's get together!
Fran & Dave