Winterize fail

[akmacs]

Hey Keith, I was replying to the original poster but in looking at your photo, I'd loosen that clamp and get that water out as I'd worry about that fitting freezing and cracking since it looks to be a low point. You could also leave your tank drain open and drive around the block a few times or tilt your trailer so any extra water in that tank can drain out.

[float5]

Yes, of course you can loosen the clamp and remove the tube to dump the water. But I wonder if Escape actually expects that people will do that every year and get it back together right for something that is outside of the trailer. Or can something else be done. Or do they say that that is unnecessary.

The tanks are not generally the problem but rather the lines and valves. And maybe that tube.

They also used to tell us to get the little bit of water out of the city water inlet valve.

[paulk]

Originally Posted by float5

Yes, of course you can loosen the clamp and remove the tube to dump the water. But I wonder if Escape actually expects that people will do that every year and get it back together right for something that is outside of the trailer. Or can something else be done. Or do they say that that is unnecessary.

For trailers with spray foam this tube wouldn't even be accessible, and foam won't stop pipes from bursting if the trailer is unheated. Perhaps they are expecting everyone to add antifreeze into their fresh water tank, as described in their winterization instructions. Strangely, I don't see a separate Winterizing T-Valve method listed.

Winterizing Your Trailer

Originally Posted by float5

They also used to tell us to get the little bit of water out of the city water inlet valve.

Interesting. It sounds like they consciously removed it then, which would imply that purging the city water inlet isn't actually necessary?

[padlin]

Has anyone had a problem with these spots freezing? I don't recall any on this board or the big RV board.

[rjbny]

Originally Posted by float5

Yes, of course you can loosen the clamp and remove the tube to dump the water. But I wonder if Escape actually expects that people will do that every year and get it back together right for something that is outside of the trailer. Or can something else be done. Or do they say that that is unnecessary.

We ended up loosening the clamp to get rid of the water in that tube. The pump itself was unable to pull that residual water up out of the tank. As some said, it might be fine because there is technically room for expansion, but we decided to play it safe.

[keithgugliotto]

When I settled down for the night and went to remove the clamp and drain the tube as a last resort, it looked like most of the water had been sucked up by a third or fourth try with the pump, or just bounced up into the tank, leaving about half a tube’s thickness in the bottom of the tube and in the black fitting. I loosened the clamp but the tube seemed to need considerable force to remove so I left it connected. The water’s frozen this morning but, with so much room to expand, the tube and fitting are very likely fine, like a little, single-serving ice cube tray. The air last night was a might bit chilly, at 31 F with a feels like of 16 F as the wind gusted into the 45 MPH range, so I didn’t snap a pic when things were liquid. Here’s one from this morning.

[rjbny]

Originally Posted by keithgugliotto

When I settled down for the night and went to remove the clamp and drain the tube as a last resort, it looked like most of the water had been sucked up by a third or fourth try with the pump, or just bounced up into the tank, leaving about half a tube’s thickness in the bottom of the tube and in the black fitting. I loosened the clamp but the tube seemed to need considerable force to remove so I left it connected. The water’s frozen this morning but, with so much room to expand, the tube and fitting are very likely fine, like a little, single-serving ice cube tray. The air last night was a might bit chilly, at 31 F with a feels like of 16 F as the wind gusted into the 45 MPH range, so I didn’t snap a pic when things were liquid. Here’s one from this morning.

Thanks, gives us courage for next year.

[JPSpins]

I opened the already emptied fresh tank’s drain valve and poured antifreeze in until red came out the valve. At least in my mind that valve has less of a chance of freezing and breaking.

[rjbny]

Originally Posted by JPSpins

I opened the already emptied fresh tank’s drain valve and poured antifreeze in until red came out the valve. At least in my mind that valve has less of a chance of freezing and breaking.

We did the same thing.

[akmacs]

I agree it would likely not freeze and split the fitting with that much space to expand but I'd want to have additional piece of mind as I wouldn't want to have to replace the water outlet on the tank if it did freeze and split. Just cheap insurance in my thought.

Not sure how the 5.0 outlet is oriented but I'll probably add some of the pink stuff in the tank also as I'm going with the spray foam option and it may not be accessible to view.

On my prior rv the outlet was on the side of the tank and did not retain water at that point when winterizing but it would have been a tough job to replace any fitting that froze and split so I leaned to overkill mode.

[float5]

Originally Posted by paulk

For trailers with spray foam this tube wouldn't even be accessible, and foam won't stop pipes from bursting if the trailer is unheated. Perhaps they are expecting everyone to add antifreeze into their fresh water tank, as described in their winterization instructions. Strangely, I don't see a separate Winterizing T-Valve method listed.

Winterizing Your Trailer



Interesting. It sounds like they consciously removed it then, which would imply that purging the city water inlet isn't actually necessary?

I wondered if I heard that they are now telling people in instructions to put anti-freeze in the fresh water tank. I don't know what the situation is with the new generations. (Back when we had instructions early on, they were wrong. Did not cover the toilet valve so ours cracked. Repair over $100. So they changed what they were doing on the build but simply needed better instructions).

We did not need anti-freeze in the fresh water tank in our classics 19' or 21'. Maybe they have built them such that it is needed there now? If someone has foam over that tube, then I wonder if that protects it. The tanks should be drained before anything else is done for winterizing.

Wonder about your city water inlet screen. We get enough out of it that we do it.

[float5]

Originally Posted by keithgugliotto

When I settled down for the night and went to remove the clamp and drain the tube as a last resort, it looked like most of the water had been sucked up by a third or fourth try with the pump, or just bounced up into the tank, leaving about half a tube’s thickness in the bottom of the tube and in the black fitting. I loosened the clamp but the tube seemed to need considerable force to remove so I left it connected. The water’s frozen this morning but, with so much room to expand, the tube and fitting are very likely fine, like a little, single-serving ice cube tray. The air last night was a might bit chilly, at 31 F with a feels like of 16 F as the wind gusted into the 45 MPH range, so I didn’t snap a pic when things were liquid. Here’s one from this morning.

That is one thing I wondered about, whether using the pump more would get rid of it. Good.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by float5

I wondered if I heard that they are now telling people in instructions to put anti-freeze in the fresh water tank. I don't know what the situation is with the new generations. (Back when we had instructions early on, they were wrong. Did not cover the toilet valve so ours cracked. Repair over $100. So they changed what they were doing on the build but simply needed better instructions).

We did not need anti-freeze in the fresh water tank in our classics 19' or 21'. Maybe they have built them such that it is needed there now? If someone has foam over that tube, then I wonder if that protects it. The tanks should be drained before anything else is done for winterizing.

Wonder about your city water inlet screen. We get enough out of it that we do it.

I believe that the winterizing instructions on the ETI website and in the linked Owner's Manual are outdated. The point of the winterizing t-valve is that you aren't putting antifreeze in the freshwater tank, but I do understand the concern that nuances of new designs may dictate slightly different methods to adequately winterize.

The toilet valve was only an issue after a change that made only using the low point drain ineffective. Now trailers don't even have the low point drain and either compressed air and/or antifreeze covers that problem.

[Fox hunt]

They reviewed winterizing with me at orientation. Empty fresh water tank, turn cut off valve to hot water tank , empty hot water tank and apply Teflon tape when screwing in plug after emptying it. Use pump drivers side dinette to pump anti freeze open each faucet to be sure it is running into each of them including outdoor shower. Pour some anti freeze into toilet. hoping that's correct I'm going to try doing it myself usually have it done at the shop.

[float5]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

I believe that the winterizing instructions on the ETI website and in the linked Owner's Manual are outdated. The point of the winterizing t-valve is that you aren't putting antifreeze in the freshwater tank, but I do understand the concern that nuances of new designs may dictate slightly different methods to adequately winterize.

The toilet valve was only an issue after a change that made only using the low point drain ineffective. Now trailers don't even have the low point drain and either compressed air and/or antifreeze covers that problem.

One of the worst changes that they have made AFAIAC was getting rid of the low point drain. You could drain the lines for a freezing night without winterizing if other freezing nights were not coming. Should be a standard feature on all trailers AFAIAC.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by float5

One of the worst changes that they have made AFAIAC was getting rid of the low point drain. You could drain the lines for a freezing night without winterizing if other freezing nights were not coming. Should be a standard feature on all trailers AFAIAC.

They got rid of the low-point drain because it no long worked after Atwood changed the toilet valve design ( without telling anyone ). The new design was quieter, but also trapped water, which froze and cracked the valve.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Fox hunt

They reviewed winterizing with me at orientation. Empty fresh water tank, turn cut off valve to hot water tank , empty hot water tank and apply Teflon tape when screwing in plug after emptying it. Use pump drivers side dinette to pump anti freeze open each faucet to be sure it is running into each of them including outdoor shower. Pour some anti freeze into toilet. hoping that's correct I'm going to try doing it myself usually have it done at the shop.

Only slight revision required. Make sure all tanks are drained properly. Turn both valves on hot water tank to allow for bypass mode (not one cut off valve). Open winterizing t-valve to pull antifreeze from container. Besides all faucets and outside shower make sure you flush the toilet to protect that valve and simultaneously it puts some antifreeze in the black tank. Run the faucets long enough with antifreeze to cover the kitchen and bath sink traps. Don't forget to pour some antifreeze down the shower floor drain too. Also for good measure I do a quick push on the city water inlet outside to clear the check valve and relieve any residual pressure. Turn the winterizing t-valve back to the normal position so you don't think you have a pump problem come spring. Done.

[float5]

Low-point drains are common in trailers and they usually do not crack toilet valves. A low-point drain is one of the most useful features for travelers in the off seasons. I wonder how all of those other trailer owners with low-point drains manage.

You can't crack the toilet valve if you are using the trailer and have heat from the furnace.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by float5

Low-point drains are common in trailers and they usually do not crack toilet valves. A low-point drain is one of the most useful features for travelers in the off seasons. I wonder how all of those other trailer owners with low-point drains manage.

You can't crack the toilet valve if you are using the trailer and have heat from the furnace.

Not interested in arguing.

[Iowa Dave]

Here’s what I would do if I was stuck out on the plains and it was getting cold. Isolate my hot water heater by turning two valves. Open the tank drain on the bottom of the fresh water tank and drop that water on the ground. Go to town and buy a couple 1.75 liter bottles of Popov Vodka. Pour the Vodky into the fresh water tank. Turn the taps on till a vodka and water cocktail appears. Slice up a lime. Have a party. Be careful around fire.
Necessity the mom of invention
Iowa Dave