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05-08-2017, 11:55 AM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Olympia wa, Washington
Trailer: 5.0TA 2017
Posts: 2,255
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i was not the original owner and my trailer was out of warranty but they did all the work no cost. i was concerned that it would fly off and someone could be hurt so i had it done quickly as i could even though my panel appeared solid.
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05-08-2017, 12:11 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
If Escape is willing to perform the necessary modifications / repairs at the factory or pay for a competent local person / business to perform the work then I see no issue . but just sending out a repair kit and expecting the consumer to do his / her own warranty work seems a bit of a stretch.
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Your quote here was given in posts 30 and 31 but attribution to you was left off.
Escape should not expect an owner to do this and should be paying for owners to take their trailer to an RV shop. I don't know if Escape has reimbursed owners for putting in the bolts. If someone here has been reimbursed for that, instead of doing the repair yourself, please let people know here. I would think that people would have to arrange in advance with Escape to have reimbursement.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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05-08-2017, 12:15 PM
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#43
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Still wondering if, when the trailer was bought used, contact information was given by the OP (and if Escape did not contact them about the recall). That would have presumably taken care of it and this would not have happened.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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05-08-2017, 12:38 PM
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#44
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Houston, Texas
Trailer: '87 Bigfoot 20DLX 5er (sold) - 2017 Escape 5.0 TA: Sep-17
Posts: 523
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wow- solar blew off!
You guys are speaking your minds; those is what's on mine.
You purchased or ordered trailers from a Mom & Pop company without a dealer network. You didn't have to deal with a sleazy salesman or pay a dealer's markup. The defect rate on these trailers is far, far lower than many RVs at 5 or 10 times the price. Escape gives a two-year warranty, most manufacturers give a one-year warranty. Even within that one year warranty, a significant group of people can't get all of the many defects corrected.
And yet, the few issues that crop up with Escapes cause endless negative comments.
There is no doubt that these trailers are not perfect. But to me, the quality and value ETI delivers at this price point is simply remarkable. That's why we're buying these trailers.
I know that when I can pick up my trailer, I'll be able to use it. It won't sit in some repair bay for six months out of the first year, I won't have to spend endless hours writing, calling, haggling, and worse with a manufacturer and dealer that only want me to get out of their hair. As far as they're concerned, I lost my rights as soon as I signed the purchase agreement.
I don't know where you will get a perfect RV. I don't think they exist at any price. Maybe an Oliver comes close, but look at those prices. Even they will have defects.
I understand you're disappointed when problems crop up, but consider the alternatives. Where can you take the money you spend (past or future) on an Escape and get more for your money?
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05-08-2017, 12:41 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: petaluma, California
Trailer: 2015 Escape 21 2002 Tundra 4x4 V-8 tow package.
Posts: 163
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I had Am Solar install 2 -160 watt panels on my 21' in October of 2015. I thoroughly asked question about the use of VHB tape before committing to the installation. They are very confident in their practice.
Improperly installed VHB tape will fail. Here's what they told me.
1) Use the right tape ( many options )
2) proper cleaning ( compatible with VHB )
3) Proper installation temp ( ? )
4) Pressure applied while curing ( plywood and bricks on panel)
5) long enough cure time before experiencing wind loads
6) Sealing to prevent water intrusion ( this is most important, a little water will cause failure )
Not following any one of these steps can lead to failure.
As stated Am Solar is not aware of any customer panels flying off. Not to say it has never happened. After 20 plus years seems to me that lack of maintenance would cause some failures ?
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05-08-2017, 12:58 PM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craiginpetaluma
I had Am Solar install 2 -160 watt panels on my 21' in October of 2015. I thoroughly asked question about the use of VHB tape before committing to the installation. They are very confident in their practice.
Improperly installed VHB tape will fail. Here's what they told me.
1) Use the right tape ( many options )
2) proper cleaning ( compatible with VHB )
3) Proper installation temp ( ? )
4) Pressure applied while curing ( plywood and bricks on panel)
5) long enough cure time before experiencing wind loads
6) Sealing to prevent water intrusion ( this is most important, a little water will cause failure )
Not following any one of these steps can lead to failure.
As stated Am Solar is not aware of any customer panels flying off. Not to say it has never happened. After 20 plus years seems to me that lack of maintenance would cause some failures ?
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Same I was told when I contacted AM solar . Have the funds saved now and who I want to install because of their expertise and success rate . Question, looks like there is a little spacer under middle of panel ? So panel is down low so wind really can't go under panel ? Pat
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05-08-2017, 01:05 PM
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#47
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReagentGrade
There is no doubt that these trailers are not perfect. But to me, the quality and value ETI delivers at this price point is simply remarkable. That's why we're buying these trailers.
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Agreed. Well said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craiginpetaluma
I had Am Solar install 2 -160 watt panels on my 21' in October of 2015. I thoroughly asked question about the use of VHB tape before committing to the installation. They are very confident in their practice.
Improperly installed VHB tape will fail. Here's what they told me.
1) Use the right tape ( many options )
2) proper cleaning ( compatible with VHB )
3) Proper installation temp ( ? )
4) Pressure applied while curing ( plywood and bricks on panel)
5) long enough cure time before experiencing wind loads
6) Sealing to prevent water intrusion ( this is most important, a little water will cause failure )
Not following any one of these steps can lead to failure.
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Thanks for providing this. It is not surprising that the details of the VHB install are very particular. This is great insight and you have given very important information if anyone were tempted to tackle a solar installation with VHB themselves.
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05-08-2017, 01:10 PM
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#48
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patandlinda
Same I was told when I contacted AM solar . Have the funds saved now and who I want to install because of their expertise and success rate . Question, looks like there is a little spacer under middle of panel ? So panel is down low so wind really can't go under panel ? Pat
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He has the tilt option, notice the wing nuts and this maybe a rubber bumper to protect the fiberglass.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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05-08-2017, 01:30 PM
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#49
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craiginpetaluma
I had Am Solar install 2 -160 watt panels on my 21' in October of 2015. I thoroughly asked question about the use of VHB tape before committing to the installation. They are very confident in their practice.
Improperly installed VHB tape will fail. Here's what they told me.
1) Use the right tape ( many options )
2) proper cleaning ( compatible with VHB )
3) Proper installation temp ( ? )
4) Pressure applied while curing ( plywood and bricks on panel)
5) long enough cure time before experiencing wind loads
6) Sealing to prevent water intrusion ( this is most important, a little water will cause failure )
Not following any one of these steps can lead to failure.
As stated Am Solar is not aware of any customer panels flying off. Not to say it has never happened. After 20 plus years seems to me that lack of maintenance would cause some failures ?
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What a clean looking install. Curious though, am being told by AM Solar there should be 2.5-3" clearance for heat dissipation. My guess is that cumulatively you are getting that with the ends hanging out, yet in the middle it looks like it is fairly near the surface.
For the reasons you mention regarding proper installation of VHB tape I asked them for a quote for labor: $120/HR, probably 1.5 hours....however, that was just an estimate "that should be taken with a grain of salt' because in their experience factory installs have a reputation of being inadequate and delaying installs.
Just got the hardware estimate: $154:
x1 = $40.00 35mm Mount Adapter Kit w/ hardware - http://amsolar.com/rv-mounting-accessories/91m-35ma
x4* = $52.00 3-Hole Tall Mounting Feet - L Foot - Tall 3 Hole
x1 = $40.00 19.5 Tilt Bar Set - Tilt Bar Set - 19.5" / 45°
x1** = $10.00 Dicor - Dicor Sealant
x1*** = $12.00 Sikaflex - Sikaflex 221 Sealant
Craig, can you tell us what your total two-panel install cost?
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05-08-2017, 01:44 PM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossue
What a clean looking install. Curious though, am being told by AM Solar there should be 2.5-3" clearance for heat dissipation. My guess is that cumulatively you are getting that with the ends hanging out, yet in the middle it looks like it is fairly near the surface.
For the reasons you mention regarding proper installation of VHB tape I asked them for a quote for labor: $120/HR, probably 1.5 hours....however, that was just an estimate "that should be taken with a grain of salt' because in their experience factory installs have a reputation of being inadequate and delaying installs.
Just got the hardware estimate: $154:
x1 = $40.00 35mm Mount Adapter Kit w/ hardware - Mount Adapter Set 35mm
x4* = $52.00 3-Hole Tall Mounting Feet - L Foot - Tall 3 Hole
x1 = $40.00 19.5 Tilt Bar Set - Tilt Bar Set - 19.5" / 45°
x1** = $10.00 Dicor - Dicor Sealant
x1*** = $12.00 Sikaflex - Sikaflex 221 Sealant
Craig, can you tell us what your total two-panel install cost?
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Ross what is the Sikaflex sealant used for ? Will he still be using the VHB tape under feet ? I know the Dicor is on top of the feet . Pat ps ordered the Maxis today .
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05-08-2017, 01:48 PM
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#51
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patandlinda
Ross what is the Sikaflex sealant used for ? Will he still be using the VHB tape under feet ? I know the Dicor is on top of the feet . Pat ps ordered the Maxis today .
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From AM Solar: **(Optional - can use just Sikaflex) Self leveling sealant. Makes for a nice installation.
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05-08-2017, 02:01 PM
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReagentGrade
I don't know where you will get a perfect RV. I don't think they exist at any price. Maybe an Oliver comes close, but look at those prices. Even they will have defects.
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Even Oliver needs to use components made by other suppliers. Only as strong as your weakest link. Some common names on this list...and the subject of many threads...Shurflo, Dometic....
https://olivertraveltrailers.com/component-suppliers/
Also, not to derail the thread but out of curiosity does anyone happen to know how you would access the piping and wiring in an Oliver? Their construction process describes that some of the electrical and all of the plumbing and tanks are between the shells.
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05-08-2017, 02:13 PM
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#53
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ,, Oklahoma
Trailer: 17
Posts: 840
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You can take out the Rear bumper i think it was, Oliver planned for access. It was posted on FGRV forum. Steve Outlaw could tell you over there for sure, he is super sharp. It's heated from the furnace under there.
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05-08-2017, 02:41 PM
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#54
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327
Even Oliver needs to use components made by other suppliers. Only as strong as your weakest link. Some common names on this list...and the subject of many threads...Shurflo, Dometic....
https://olivertraveltrailers.com/component-suppliers/
Also, not to derail the thread but out of curiosity does anyone happen to know how you would access the piping and wiring in an Oliver? Their construction process describes that some of the electrical and all of the plumbing and tanks are between the shells.
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For one you are given many easy to open access area's ,must of never looked at one in person . In Escape you have to literally cut open or tear apart to get to wiring etc. They thought this out before hand on Oliver . Pat
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05-08-2017, 03:14 PM
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: New Westminster, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B
Posts: 218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patandlinda
Question, looks like there is a little spacer under middle of panel ? So panel is down low so wind really can't go under panel ? Pat
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I had my panel installed at ETI in March 2017. They bolted it through into the upper cabinets. The front edge is quite close or touching the shell. Should I be concerned about it rubbing through the fibreglass?
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05-08-2017, 03:21 PM
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#56
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msweet
I had my panel installed at ETI in March 2017. They bolted it through into the upper cabinets. The front edge is quite close or touching the shell. Should I be concerned about it rubbing through the fibreglass?
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If it was mine I would loosen up the screws and put a spacer in there . A small piece of rubber , dense foam , etc. . Pat
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05-08-2017, 03:26 PM
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#57
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patandlinda
If it was mine I would loosen up the screws and put a spacer in there . A small piece of rubber , dense foam , etc. . Pat
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Looking at your pictures again looks like they used rivets . The back looks fine . You may have to drill out the front rivets to install a spacer in there . I would then get stainless bolts and nuts to reinstall . Pat
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05-08-2017, 03:32 PM
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#58
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 - "Felicity"
Posts: 2,945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg A
A VHB process has been used at AM solar for years with no reports of failure. ETI didn't use VHB if I recall, but used epoxy which has to be mixed and applied perfectly or it can fail.
I agree with Ron, first thing that came to mind was that I pray no one got injured when that panel went sailing since the owner had no idea it separated. The bigger issue here is the potential risk to have injuries or death occur and I hope there are not more of these epoxied units running around.
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The epoxy seemed to work fine. It took the gel coat with it when it left........
__________________
Charlie Y
Need custom storage to your design? Don't drill holes!
www.RVWidgetWorks.com
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05-08-2017, 03:54 PM
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#59
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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I was a bit disappointed when this item was posted. I guess I thought that after the initial panels flying off and the ETI brackets going out that the situation was dealt with and over. It's obvious that there are still units out there with panels with the potential to detach and do catastrophic injuries to any occupants of a following vehicle.
I don't really think ETI supporters or bashers trading comments is going to help the issue. Since most Escape owners seem to like chatting with other owners they meet while travelling I'm going to make a point of asking if they're aware of the solar panel issue and if their panels are bolted on. Seems like a reasonable thing to do and if others do it and it prevents one more panel from flying off and putting lives at risk then it seems like a worthwhile effort.
Ron
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05-08-2017, 04:09 PM
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#60
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
I was a bit disappointed when this item was posted. I guess I thought that after the initial panels flying off and the ETI brackets going out that the situation was dealt with and over. It's obvious that there are still units out there with panels with the potential to detach and do catastrophic injuries to any occupants of a following vehicle.
I don't really think ETI supporters or bashers trading comments is going to help the issue. Since most Escape owners seem to like chatting with other owners they meet while travelling I'm going to make a point of asking if they're aware of the solar panel issue and if their panels are bolted on. Seems like a reasonable thing to do and if others do it and it prevents one more panel from flying off and putting lives at risk then it seems like a worthwhile effort.
Ron
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Ron the most sensible idea yet . Thankyou for that and I will do that myself . Pat
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