2 6v not fully charging on shore power.

[TheNiceFamily]

Hi,

I've searched but can't find an answer specific to us. We don't have solar, nor lithium - just the two 6V lead acid batteries. Ours is a brand new 2024 (September) 17B. We're in the Pacific Northwest.

Our trailer is winterized and parked in front of our house. We've left the batteries attached to the trailer and made sure they were fully-charged before turning the battery-disconnect switch off. So, there has been zero draw. I thought. But part of my bi-weekly check is to reconnect the batteries, let the Progressive do it's thing, check for errors (had one first time - was negative polarity but quickly sorted by reversing the plug), make sure its E0 then check the Battery Level indicator. Twice now it's shown 2/3. Twice now I've left it plugged into shore power, first time for about 6 hours, second time overnight. Battery Level gets to Full. I use disconnect switch then, check again two weeks later and, back to 2/3 again! What's going on? Do lead acid batteries really discharge by 1/3 when disconnected after only a couple of weeks?

We DO have the lithium-ready and solar-ready packages (just for future-proofing purposes). Is it something to do with that?

I understand we could take the batteries in and put on a trickle charger but, we've got no garage and a very small house so that's far from ideal. I suppose we could also just leave plugged into shore power but as the trailer is directly in front of our house, so is the power cord and so is a bit of a tripping hazard.

I guess my questions are:

Is it normal that they're discharging 1/3 in a short time while disconnected?
If it is normal, can I/should I just continue to reconnect, charge overnight and disconnect?

 

[Suregrip391]

I believe the propane detector is always going to drain the battery. Hopefully someone with more experience then I will chime in on that.

 

[TheNiceFamily]

I believe the propane detector is always going to drain the battery. Hopefully someone with more experience then I will chime in on that.

Thank you. If that's the case then it's normal and I can just keep on doing what we're doing. It's a reassuring answer! I will wait for others to chime in but I'm hoping that's it.

 

[Craig_TaB]

Googles "AI Review" (search) reports:

Discharge rate: Generally between 3-8% per month depending on the battery type (flooded vs. AGM/gel) and storage conditions.

Temperature impact: Higher temperatures lead to a faster self-discharge rate.
Storage considerations: To minimize self-discharge, store lead-acid batteries in a cool, dry place.

So, it would seem your batteries are discharging abnormally fast if the "Battery Status Monitor" is accurate.

Does your trailer have additional wires/items connected to the battery Positive Side; electric tongue jack, does the Solar-Ready-Package include a controller(?), for something else that could be drawing stand-by power.

When you say "let the Progressive do it's thing", what specific item part number, model number are you referencing. Is it part of the Power Center (circuit breaker / fuse box) or in addition.

Side Note: My rig also is lead-acid (AGM). I have a 10W 12-inch square solar panel and cheap PWM Solar Controller connected to the battery. It provides a trickle charge all winter {Spokane area location}

 

[SRS]

Hi,

I've searched but can't find an answer specific to us. We don't have solar, nor lithium - just the two 6V lead acid batteries. Ours is a brand new 2024 (September) 17B. We're in the Pacific Northwest.

Our trailer is winterized and parked in front of our house. We've left the batteries attached to the trailer and made sure they were fully-charged before turning the battery-disconnect switch off. So, there has been zero draw. I thought. But part of my bi-weekly check is to reconnect the batteries, let the Progressive do it's thing, check for errors (had one first time - was negative polarity but quickly sorted by reversing the plug), make sure its E0 then check the Battery Level indicator. Twice now it's shown 2/3. Twice now I've left it plugged into shore power, first time for about 6 hours, second time overnight. Battery Level gets to Full. I use disconnect switch then, check again two weeks later and, back to 2/3 again! What's going on? Do lead acid batteries really discharge by 1/3 when disconnected after only a couple of weeks?

We DO have the lithium-ready and solar-ready packages (just for future-proofing purposes). Is it something to do with that?

I understand we could take the batteries in and put on a trickle charger but, we've got no garage and a very small house so that's far from ideal. I suppose we could also just leave plugged into shore power but as the trailer is directly in front of our house, so is the power cord and so is a bit of a tripping hazard.

I guess my questions are:

Is it normal that they're discharging 1/3 in a short time while disconnected?
If it is normal, can I/should I just continue to reconnect, charge overnight and disconnect?

I believe when the battery disconnect switch is off, the propane detector is as well. I can't check that because my trailer is winterized with the lithium batteries stored in my garage. However, I believe the brake disconnect switch is directly connected to the batteries so there could be a drain there as well as others. It does seem like an excessive amount of drain though, but I'm no expert.

One solution would be to disconnect the negative ground cable and monitor the batteries. You cold test the voltage of each battery after charging and letting them rest for an hour, disconnect the negative cable and in a few weeks test again. Depending on what readings you get, you could look for parasitic drains or possibly one of the batteries is going bad. Yes even new batteries batteries can have defects. If you have the Victron shunt, it draws some current but not much. I assume you don't have a solar controller but if you do, it will also use battery power even when the battery switch is off.

FWIW, my previous trailer had two 6V batteries. I kept them connected to a battery maintainer when not in use and found they lasted longer probably due to the desulphation cycle. Most solar chargers can do that as well, at least my Renogy PWM controller could.

Hope that helps.

 

[TheNiceFamily]

Sigh - I was so hoping for the simple propane answer confirmation. I'm 100% electric dyslexic - truly. Whenever I begin to read about batteries/solar/electrical systems my brain switches off, completely. I'm not stupid, truly. Also, not lazy and totally into researching things. it's just electric that does me in.

I'm going to pick through each of your very helpful comments and see if, by taking each and researching it individually I can figure out what to do (i.e. 'disconnect the negative ground cable and monitor the batteries" "additional wires/connectors connected to the battery Positive side" "does the solar-ready package include a controller?").

We DO have an electric tongue jack.

Our Progressive is the EMS surge-protector that Escape installs as an optional extra - again, don't know much about it alls I know is it's a great thing for protecting the electrical system by identifying problems with your incoming shore power and protection by not allowing "bad" electric in.

Back to the drawing/researching board for me!

EDITED TO ADD: I guess what's really, also, confusing me is how there can be ANY draw on a battery(ies) if you have completely disconnected them at the switch? Does disconnected not mean disconnected? Are there things that bypass that and connect directly to the 6V batteries? Guessing maybe aforementioned solar connector et al but, why? Why doesn't disconnected mean just that?

 

[Craig_TaB]

. . . We DO have an electric tongue jack.
. . . Progressive is the EMS surge-protector that Escape installs

. . . Are there things that bypass that and connect directly to the 6V batteries?

@TheNiceFamily; Thanks for the additional information.

And, Yes. There are items that can by-pass the 12VDC Disconnect Switch.

The approach @SRS suggested [post-5] is by far the best way to isolate your issue.
If there really is one . . . . as Battery SOC (state-of-charge) measurement has many variables. Ideally it should be measured with a Voltmeter and the battery disconnected (ground terminal wires removed) and about 30-minutes after the wires were disconnected.

The attached 'typical' Escape Wiring Diagram might help you visualize how items are connected and interact. Based on the Escape Web-Site your solar-ready option does not include a controller, just the wiring.

As @SRS noted with the in-trailer Battery Disconnect Switch set to Off the only current leakage points should be the trailer brakes, tongue jack, 7-pin connector (moisture in connector), or moisture in the roof MC4 {unlikely}.

Side Note: There are lots of lay-person basic 12-volt-electric-circuit guides available. The 12 Volt Doctor is quite good however 50% of it covers boat systems/circuits not seen in travel trailers . . . while the basics are solid and helpful. Other books or sources for the 12 Volt Doctor are out there - - - for reference here is an over-priced(?) Amazon link 12 Volt Doctor's Practical Handbook

 

[vermilye]

Escape has used different wiring methods throughout its productions. For example, in my 2017 21C the battery disconnect disconnects everything - propane detector, tongue jack & break away switch. Other builds have left those items connected even with the battery disconnect off. As far as I know, all builds have the solar controller connected directly to the batteries, bypassing the battery disconnect switch.

 

[TheNiceFamily]

You are all very patient and kind. I'm paying full attention and will definitely be working my way through ALL the comments and helpful diagram here.

 

[Ron in BC]

the only current leakage points should be the trailer brakes, tongue jack, 7-pin connector (moisture in connector), or moisture in the roof MC4 {unlikely}.

To that list I'd add the 7 pin junction box on Gen 2 trailers. It's not nearly as waterproof as you might think. From above you'd think that it was quite well protected under the tongue box. But from underneath you can see it's not protected from rain at all.

Twice I've opened it up and found moisture and minor corrosion inside. It's probably just as capable as moisture in the 7pin plug for causing some annoying random issues.

Ron

 

[brroberts]

My 2021 does not disconnect the propane detector when the battery switch is turned off. So yours may, or may not.

 

[RossH]

Our first Escape was a 17B with dual 6V lead acid Interstates like yours and no solar. I can't remember if there was any kind of gauge you describe that shows 2/3, however that seems like an old idiot light in cars. Our 21C has the same Interestaes yet charged by solar and the solar controller reads out the voltage, which when charged is around 13.2 or a bit higher.

You can buy a 12V cig plug voltage meter for under $10 that might help.

Amazon.com

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

I highly recommend adding a shunt monitor to the batteries. Victron makes a simple bluetooth-only shunt you read with your phone, and a couple meter gauges (BMV-712 etc), and there's a wide range of cheaper noname ones, such as Amazon.com

 

[Mike G]

My personal first test would be to make sure the electrolyte levels are where they should be,
then right after charging,
disconnect both + and - battery cables and the cable between them,
then an hour later take a voltage reading of each battery with a handheld volt-ohm meter (lots of places sell them if you don't have one).
Make sure the tops of the batteries are not dusty or dirty; dust can carry electrical current and do a bit of discharging!
Then at your next usual time in 2 weeks, read the voltage of each battery with the meter again. It should only have fallen perhaps a tenth of a volt, maybe two tenths. If either battery is down significantly, I'd say you have a bad battery (warranty time!). If not, you can proceed to figuring out what the current draw to the trailer is.

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

The only reason to disconnect both terminals is if you are going to physically remove the batteries entirely. Disconnecting one terminal completely interrupts the current path.

 

[Suregrip391]

My 2021 does not disconnect the propane detector when the battery switch is turned off. So yours may, or may not.

Thanks for confirming I’m not totally crazy, I thought that’s how mine was too when I posted above. 2020 5.0TA build. You just have to check your trailer. Could go either way.

 

[Mike G]

The only reason to disconnect both terminals is if you are going to physically remove the batteries entirely. Disconnecting one terminal completely interrupts the current path.

My theory was, leave nothing to chance: if one is good, two is better: eliminate as many extra variables as possible: belt + suspenders!

 

[zephirus]

I also have September release E19 with 2 6v batteries. I have left my batteries in my TT. I fully charged the system, have the master power switch off, and am monitoring the voltage drop. So in 3 weeks with temperatures in low 20's at night, my system is still showing 12.3 v. I will just continue to check every 2 weeks and will charge accordingly. My trailer is covered so its take a small amount of work to get into the TT. I can say I am not seeing much if any power drop so far. I can post again when I need to recharge - Best of success to OP.

 

[Ron in BC]

My theory was, leave nothing to chance: if one is good, two is better: eliminate as many extra variables as possible: belt + suspenders!

Nah, John is correct. As much as I'm a belt and suspenders type of guy I'm doing a lot of electrical work and I'm quite secure in having the negative terminal only disconnected.

Ron

 

[TheNiceFamily]

When plugged into shore power, does the battery monitor always show full? Or, if the batteries were at half, would they show half on the monitor (when plugged into shore)?