2 6v not fully charging on shore power.

[alanmalk]

Nah, John is correct. As much as I'm a belt and suspenders type of guy I'm doing a lot of electrical work and I'm quite secure in having the negative terminal only disconnected.

Ron

Look at it this way. Disconnecting both the + and - terminals is like removing both the top and bottom end of the suspenders.

 

[vermilye]

When plugged into shore power, does the battery monitor always show full? Or, if the batteries were at half, would they show half on the monitor (when plugged into shore)?

It depends on what type of battery monitor you are using. The string of red LEDs that are part of the basic battery & tank levels is not very accurate. It will usually show full when plugged into shore power. A current based battery monitor such as the Victron Smart Shunt or 712 when properly configured will always show the actual battery state of charge, plugged in or not.

I suspect your batteries are not being fully charged, particularly if you are using the LED readout to determine the state of charge. It takes a long time to bring lead acid batteries to full because they will only accept a limited amount of current during the last 20% or so of charging. As others have mentioned, a plug in volt meter read an hour or so after shutting off the power to the charger will give you a better idea of the state of charge of the batteries.

 

[TheNiceFamily]

I'm getting there! Found a great, simple little vid by RV Masters explaining charging. Made total sense.

So, first thing I'm going to do is plug into shore power for 48-hours.

While I wait for the batteries to deep (not surface - see, I get it! there was a cows/pasture analogy that made it crystal clear!) charge I'm going to also wait for an Amazon delivery of a volt meter. Still deciding on which one.

The voltmeter raises another little question though. Sorry. Since the 2 6V batteries are mounted quite far apart on our 17B and since we need to be able to put the voltmeter probes on positive and negative which might be 5'-6' apart, should I be looking for extra-long voltmeter cables? I'm guessing yes and I'm off to search but please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. As for the 12V plug-in meter - I'm not at all sure how that works, would we just plug it into the 12V plug inside the trailer to get the reading? I'm guessing a voltmeter direct on the + - on the batteries would be more accurate?

 

[DT6]

Sounds like you are like me with respect to electrical issues. If you can't figure out a solution on your own and based on everyone's input, you might call Escape and start a warranty repair request. The new team there was great a supporting my warranty work, I'm sure you will get the same great level of support.

 

[Craig_TaB]

. . . Since the 2 6V batteries are mounted quite far apart on our 17B and since we need to be able to put the voltmeter probes on positive and negative which might be 5'-6' apart, should I be looking for extra-long voltmeter cables?

Most multi-meters (multiple function; Ohms. Volts DC, Volts AC, etc) have ~1 meter leads so with the meter in the middle you can reach 5-6 feet, may need a helpers third hand.

The two 6-Volt Batteries are wired in Series to generate 12-Volts for the trailer, So
you can measure each 6-Volt Battery itself and ADD the values together to learn the total voltage.

 

[zephirus]

When plugged into shore power, does the battery monitor always show full? Or, if the batteries were at half, would they show half on the monitor (when plugged into shore)?

The monitor will show what the charge state of the batteries are. Once you plug into shore power you should see a change in voltage status with the battery. Also you will hear the inverter fan fire up after a few minutes. My batteries will go as high as 13v when charging and then settle back to 12+ once off shore power. I have not looked at it that closely. I will just make sure its charging (pretty obvious). The challenge on the forum is find someone that has a system as close to yours as possible because there are alot of different setups folks have which behave differently. Especially if a solar system is involved. I think on the two 6v battery setup you don't want voltage to fall below 11.8v but others could answer more knowledgably - that's just what I have read.

 

[alanmalk]

The voltmeter raises another little question though. Sorry. Since the 2 6V batteries are mounted quite far apart on our 17B and since we need to be able to put the voltmeter probes on positive and negative which might be 5'-6' apart, should I be looking for extra-long voltmeter cables? I'm guessing yes and I'm off to search but please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. As for the 12V plug-in meter - I'm not at all sure how that works, would we just plug it into the 12V plug inside the trailer to get the reading? I'm guessing a voltmeter direct on the + - on the batteries would be more accurate?

As mentioned above, the most important, and most accurate reading is done when the batteries are neither discharging nor charging. (Which is not to say that those measurements are not valuable. In fact they are but not with regards to the state of charge of the batteries.)

But the added benefit is that the measurements can be made where ever there is a 12 volt wire. For example, any cigarette lighter socket will do nicely. You will get the same reading that you would have if you measured the battery terminals directly. Nothing running = no voltage drop.

As a counter example - if you take your measurement on a wire that supplies power to the water pump, and the water pump turns on while you are looking, you will see the voltage drop. Some of that drop may be the battery using up some charge, and some will be due to resistance in wires. This can get messy!

 

[TheNiceFamily]

Sounds like you are like me with respect to electrical issues. If you can't figure out a solution on your own and based on everyone's input, you might call Escape and start a warranty repair request. The new team there was great a supporting my warranty work, I'm sure you will get the same great level of support.

I agree. If it weren't the week-end I'd be calling. I AM looking forward to seeing what Monday brings, after a proper 48-hour charge.

I also discovered that our 7-pin connector was quite wet. I've now dried it off and tucked it up under cover so that's another potential issue addressed.

 

[Mike G]

It's better to measure each 6V battery separately with the handheld meter. You don't need long leads for that. Suppose for example you have one battery that checks in at 6.3V and the other one is 5.9V? You would know that the low one is not healthy. But if you simply measure across both batteries and get an additive result, you won't know about that one battery.

As for which multimeter, any inexpensive one should serve you well as long as you aren't going to drop it or beat on it. But if you want one that will last 30 years of rough use, you can spend the big bucks for a Fluke.

 

[Craig_TaB]

@TheNiceFamily . . . . So what's up? It has been over 48-hours . . . . now New Year's Eve . . .

Did batteries charge, did you get some Voltage Meter Reading - - - -

 

[TheNiceFamily]

@TheNiceFamily . . . . So what's up? It has been over 48-hours . . . . now New Year's Eve . . .

Did batteries charge, did you get some Voltage Meter Reading - - - -

Thanks for checking, Craig!

Amazon has let me down so I've no way of checking until I receive my meter. I've decided to just leave her plugged in until it arrives. I will come back and report in, I promise!

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

Most multi-meters (multiple function; Ohms. Volts DC, Volts AC, etc) have ~1 meter leads so with the meter in the middle you can reach 5-6 feet, may need a helpers third hand.

The two 6-Volt Batteries are wired in Series to generate 12-Volts for the trailer, So
you can measure each 6-Volt Battery itself and ADD the values together to learn the total voltage.

and, when measuring VOLTAGE, there's nearly ZERO current through the meter, so you can extend one of those leads with as many feet as you need of relatively skinny gauge hookup wire. I ran a volt meter probe all the way to the engine compartment of my F250 longbed truck (21 feet bumper to bumper) from the back of my E21 where my power stuff is, so like 50 feet. I had a roll of some cheap stranded 22 gauge 'hookup wire', so I stripped both ends, wrapped one end around the + lead of my meter and ran the other end to various terminals under the hood so I could check for voltage drops when I was debugging why my Orion DC-DC wasn't getting enough juice.

 

[Ron in BC]

As for which multimeter, any inexpensive one should serve you well as long as you aren't going to drop it or beat on it. But if you want one that will last 30 years of rough use, you can spend the big bucks for a Fluke.

Maybe not necessarily. 31 years ago I bought this cheap Micronta at Radio Shack to take to my boat overseas. Guy wanted to sell me a warranty. I said, if it stops working it'll be swimming with the fishes.

It's crossed oceans, been put to some hard use and it's one of my go to meters because it has a nice loud continuity buzzer. I have a couple of the cheap, like 10 bucks, yellow ones and they're handy especially since they're so cheap I have them in several locations. I have two lab quality meters but somehow it's the cheap ones that seem to get the most use and for most things they're all that's needed.

Ron

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

I tend to prefer the better/newer design DVMs that are autorange and don't have nearly as many settings on the main rotary knob. I have a very basic Fluke, and a Craftsman from about 10-15 years ago, both of which have similar functionality.

 

[TheNiceFamily]

Hi all - checking in. Here's what I've done so far in our winterized and battery-disconnected 2024 17B with no solar, 2 6V batteries:

1 - dried and put 7-pin connector under cover
2 - re-connected (via switch) and plugged into shore power for 72-hours
3 - ordered simple cigarette-plug-in type volt reader from Amazon
4 - unplugged shore power but left batteries connected with no apparent draw (i.e. nothing is on that I know of).
5 - waited for delivery of volt reader which arrived last night - about 72 hours after I unplugged from shore power
6 - took reading via the cigarette-plug in the 17B - 12.2
7 - have now disconnected batteries via switch.

^^^ were the simplest preliminary things I could do. Now I move on to follow some excellent but far more detailed investigatory advice as I feel that from what I'm reading the reading should be much higher than 12.2 based on my actions over the past 7-days.

And - no - I haven't yet called Escape. We don't boondock, don't have AC or solar nor a microwave and - we're winterized until April. So, I'm viewing this as a learning experience not an emergency situation. If I can't figure things out by the time we head to the mainland for the May rally, I'll book in at Escape and ask them to take a look.

If you haven't already nodded off on this saga I'm writing feel free to stay tuned. I will return and report if there's any news.

 

[Ron in BC]

It's handy to have a voltage display but unfortunately that's not what you need to solve your problem in a couple of minutes.

With two 6V batteries you need a way to test each one separately. Batteries can develop a dead cell and that pretty much causes a similar problem to what you're having; a failure to charge and hold the charge.

You could jury rig some wires to the cigarette lighter voltmeter but I'd recommend that you buy either the Princess Auto or Amazon digital meters, both for under $18.

Putting the leads on one battery at a time will instantly tell you if you have one faulty battery.

Doing the same when plugged in will tell you if the converter is functioning.

Here's an example of how easy it is to see with a multimeter if a battery is good or not.

Ron

 

[wackyburggeezer]

I'm late to the party, but I'd recommend charging the batteries again, then disconnecting the positive (or negative) cables from both. Check the voltage at each battery after disconnecting, and then again in 24 hours. Like Ron suggested, you may have a dead cell in one battery, and as long as the two batteries are electrically connected, one defective battery will drag the good one down. A digital voltmeter is inexpensive, YouTube is full of "How To's", and you'll find that you can check other electrical issues in your trailer like a Pro!

 

[alanmalk]

... and as long as the two batteries are electrically connected, one defective battery will drag the good one down.

A fine point of clarification:
A dead cell in one of the batteries can make a big difference in the total voltage, perhaps to the point of making the set (2X6 volt) unusable. But - a dead cell in one of the batteries will not "damage" the other battery. The dead (defective, weak, etc.) cell acts like a resistor, blocking current at exactly the point where it is needed the most. So by all means - check each battery individually to confirm that they both are in the same state of health. And since this particular test is looking for "equality of voltage", rather than the grand total, it would not hurt to have a bit of a load on the batteries, say a couple of lights to see by.

If you want to go a bit further in troubleshooting, use the Amp scale of your new multi-meter to confirm the "vampire" drain on the batteries - if any. Batteries connected, no known drain (disconnected at the switch), no charging.

And a bit more: With the batteries fully connected, confirm the voltage while charging on shore power. (Acceptable voltages are anywhere between 13.8 and 14.4, depending on variables like the stage of the charge cycle, battery temperature, etc.)

 

[BULLS]

Maybe I miss it all of the above post's, if you haven't yet - stop and pull both batteries, take them to a battery shop... have them tested (load test).

 

[Ron in BC]

You can always remove batteries and take them to be tested but that's a lot of effort compared to the time it takes to test with a multimeter. It might be something that you do after testing and suspicions of a problem are indicated.

Ron