21C battery/inverter placement

[MI21C24]

I have a new 2024 21C we picked up last month. We ordered it with a compressor refrigerator and just a standard battery fully intending to upgrade the unit ourselves with two 280Ah LiFeO4 batteries. For the long trip home (almost 3 weeks with shore power only two nights), I created a temporary battery box for the back of our pickup and made the connection with the trailer (when parked) with a separate female 7 way connector tied to the battery box in the pickup bed. It worked very well for the relatively small DC loads (led lighting, water pump, furnace for a bit in the mornings, compressor fridge, and a CPAP running off a 12v power supply). With an installed shunt, I was able to see we used about 7-8% of our 560 Ah every night and recharged using a DCDC charger (Victron 20A).

I'm now starting to plan the permanent install of the batteries into the 21C and am considering an inverter. I know there are lots of existing threads on inverter installs already and I've read most of them. However, I started a new thread because I have a question specific to placement in the 21C.

Every battery/inverter install in a 21C I've read about on the forum is in the Dinette area and probably with good reason as it is in close proximity to the rest of the wiring, etc. But my short time using the unit has already seemed to indicate that the dinette storage is probably more useable to us than the (large) storage under the bed.

The two batteries combined need about 20x21 inches - which will fit under the dinette. But I see all that space under the bed and wonder why not locate both the batteries and a potential inverter there??

If I use the WFCO T-30 on the converter, forward placement under the bed would mean running at least two cables through the refrigerator/closet/drawer stack area but I think there is room to do that. Without an inverter, it would be even easier.

It would also mean running a new chassis ground through the floor under the bed. Both are negatives, but not insurmountable.

I'd probably be affecting the balance of the trailer. Each battery is about 60 lbs. An inverter would be another 12 lbs and maybe another 6 lbs for cables. Roughly 140 lbs total maybe halfway between the front of the trailer and the first axel (rear of the black tank near the middle of the trailer L-R). But tongue weight isn't all bad. We have an Andersen WD hitch and a 1/2 ton pickup tow vehicle.

Are there other reasons not to place the equipment here?? Why is this typically not done?

One other question: I kind of wished I would have asked Escape not to install the regular battery, but we needed one for emergency brakes on the way home and to run the fridge with the whole unit parked during breaks in the drive. But now I have the two vent holes to seal up. Any suggestions??

 

[Ron in BC]

But my short time using the unit has already seemed to indicate that the dinette storage is probably more useable to us than the (large) storage under the bed.

The two batteries combined need about 20x21 inches - which will fit under the dinette. But I see all that space under the bed and wonder why not locate both the batteries and a potential inverter there??


Are there other reasons not to place the equipment here?? Why is this typically not done?

One other question: I kind of wished I would have asked Escape not to install the regular battery, but we needed one for emergency brakes on the way home and to run the fridge with the whole unit parked during breaks in the drive. But now I have the two vent holes to seal up.

Seems like you answered your own question. Under the dinette makes a lot of sense and works well.

Don't seal up the exterior vent if you abandon it. It makes a very convenient access port if you decide later to run an exterior cable of some type into the trailer.

The space under the bed is great. Consider adding the 4 crate pull out mod as well as installing a built in electric heater there.

Ron

 

[MI21C24]

Seems like you answered your own question. Under the dinette makes a lot of sense and works well.

Don't seal up the exterior vent if you abandon it. It makes a very convenient access port if you decide later to run an exterior cable of some type into the trailer.

The space under the bed is great. Consider adding the 4 crate pull out mod as well as installing a built in electric heater there.

Ron

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of better utilizing the under bed storage. I read through multiple threads on this topic. The two slides by wr9r are pretty impressive as is the shoe storage with access from a second door on the curb side by moenkopi. It caused me to go out and take another look and post a picture.

I have a vent pipe and water supply lines that would have to be rerouted to take advantage of that space. Did you have to move this plumbing?? I suppose it could be done, but it would be a fairly big job. I may have room to place the batteries along the bathroom wall and still have room for 4 milk crates. Will have to measure a bit to make sure.

 

[hugh]

I've got my inverter and two 460Ah LiFePO4 batteries in the dinette area - around 200lb of equipment. Even with that much extra weight in the rear, my 21C is often very tongue heavy.

If you're planning on putting your batteries and inverter close to the front of the trailer, be careful of what that might do to your tongue weight.


Edit: Seems like it would be pretty easy to check this. Just load up your trailer with whatever you normally carry, place the batteries / inverter on the floor where you are thinking about installing them, and then check your tongue weight.

 

[hugh]

Btw, on an unrelated note, does that vent pipe connect in with your blackwater vent so you've only got one vent on the roof? If so, that looks like a nice improvement on the 2024. My 21C has separate vents for black and gray water.

 

[Ron in BC]

I have a vent pipe and water supply lines that would have to be rerouted to take advantage of that space. Did you have to move this plumbing??

Your photo makes me realize how valuable the weekly build photos that used to be posted were. I didn't know about the change in the vent line.

No matter, it wouldn't preclude the 4 crate storage area.

The crate drawer separates the underbed area into 3 zones.

Zone 1, closest to the bathroom is accessed by a door. That makes a logical storage space for shoes because it's easily accessed by the exterior door. ETI sells matching doors. Your vent pipe wouldn't preclude this use and would be very easy to drop lower if desired. Zone 1 also has a built-in electric heater, the perfect place for it as it blows lengthwise and distributes the heat right back to the dinette. One the best mods that I've done.

Zone 2 is the 4 crate drawer. Excellent accessible storage that extends back to the black water tank without the need to be lifting the mattress etc.

Zone 3 is the space accessed from the exterior hatch. The crate drawer becomes the back wall and holds bins etc. in place.

That's my view of the most efficient use of the underbed area in a 21C.

Ron

 

[MI21C24]

Btw, on an unrelated note, does that vent pipe connect in with your blackwater vent so you've only got one vent on the roof? If so, that looks like a nice improvement on the 2024. My 21C has separate vents for black and gray water.

Yes, only one exit on the roof - I've attached another photo taken from the outside access door that shows the connection.

 

[MI21C24]

Ron, I thought about raising or lowering a section of the vent pipe in the vicinity of the curbside facing door area, but I think the second photo shows that the vent pipe is on a definite intended angle - probably so condensation drains back into the grey tank. I think its a good idea to provide positive drainage all the way back to the grey tank with any mod - which would be difficult due to the position of the vent Tee above the black tank.

 

[MI21C24]

I probably wouldn't install an electric heater anyways. We opted for the Houghton AC unit which has a true heat pump with a remote like a mini-split. We've used it already while camping last weekend at a state park in pretty cool weather and it worked great and not too noisy.

 

[MI21C24]

But I think you're point, Ron, was that the pipe doesn't prevent using that area for shoes even with the pipe still there - and you're probably right. It wouldn't be near as attractive as the mod made by moenkopi, but could still be functional.

I'm not in a rush to build shoe storage. My point in this discussion was not to rush into installing the two new batteries and possibly an inverter without thinking forward a bit. So this is useful discussion for me.

 

[Ron in BC]

I think its a good idea to provide positive drainage all the way back to the grey tank with any mod - which would be difficult due to the position of the vent Tee above the black tank.

No, I think that it would be quite easy to drop the vent pipe lower, more out of the way and maintain the same pitch.

Sorry for the crude down and dirty drawing but this is what I mean.

Ron

 

[MI21C24]

Can anyone comment on using DIN Rail electrical components? I've been looking at Automatic Transfer Switches and sub panels and ran across these smaller form factor units on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CXPFTCVL/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A1S77ES0YAHZI4&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09F5Z2ZX3/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?smid=AO9UZ4SB9EQ4K&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CJB4S3H9/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A11N52FA72OBBS&th=1

I don't have any experience with these components, but it is attractive to have the ATS and 2 subpanel breakers in one smallish box.

 

[hugh]

BTW, not sure how much you've looked into the wire pulling... If you get down on your hands and knees, and look at the top of the bottom-most cabinets on the driver's side, you'll notice that the backs and sides of the cabinets don't go all the way to the top. (Or at least, that's true on my 2022) That gap makes it very easy to fish wires from under the bed to the power distribution panel in the dining area.

 

[MI21C24]

BTW, not sure how much you've looked into the wire pulling... If you get down on your hands and knees, and look at the top of the bottom-most cabinets on the driver's side, you'll notice that the backs and sides of the cabinets don't go all the way to the top. (Or at least, that's true on my 2022) That gap makes it very easy to fish wires from under the bed to the power distribution panel in the dining area.

Yes - thanks for the tip. I actually used my phone to "see" behind the backs (and sides) of those cabinets. In a Class B unit we had before the Escape, those areas in the cabinets had screws so I could remove the "backs" and gain even more access to those areas. Wish Escape would have done that.

 

[MI21C24]

I need to get a wire through there for the emergency brakes when I move the DCDC charger inside - If I put the batteries in the dinette area.

 

[MI21C24]

No, I think that it would be quite easy to drop the vent pipe lower, more out of the way and maintain the same pitch.

Sorry for the crude down and dirty drawing but this is what I mean.

Ron

Yes, I see what you're saying and that may gain enough clearance for an elevated shelf with more room to access. I was thinking we could still place shoes on the floor reaching under the vent pipe from the added door. I guess either way could work.

 

[Ron in BC]

so I could remove the "backs" and gain even more access to those areas. Wish Escape would have done that.

No worries, the back is still pretty easy to remove. I removed mine to make a place for my tool bag. It's all mine. All the other cupboards are claimed by my wife. Without the back you can also reach around the corner and put deep storage items in the wheel well space.

Ron

 

[Ron in BC]

I need to get a wire through there for the emergency brakes when I move the DCDC charger inside - If I put the batteries in the dinette area.

Wires can be run without removing any cabinet backs. You can see that the space has lots of other wires. Sometimes when fishing a wire through you might snag it on something but no biggie, just try again until you get it through.

Once I fish through this space I pull a line twice the length of the space. It stays in place permanently. Anytime I want to pull wires etc. through the space I can do so with the permanently in place cord.

Ron

 

[hugh]

Wires can be run without removing any cabinet backs. You can see that the space has lots of other wires. Sometimes when fishing a wire through you might snag it on something but no biggie, just try again until you get it through.

Once I fish through this space I pull a line twice the length of the space. It stays in place permanently. Anytime I want to pull wires etc. through the space I can do so with the permanently in place cord.

Ron

Yup, me too. I've got a pull line permanently in place between my bed and dinette area. Running a pull line is something I prefer to do only once.

 

[AnbyB1720]

Can anyone comment on using DIN Rail electrical components? I've been looking at Automatic Transfer Switches and sub panels and ran across these smaller form factor units on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CXPFTCVL/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A1S77ES0YAHZI4&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09F5Z2ZX3/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?smid=AO9UZ4SB9EQ4K&th=1

Amazon.com

I don't have any experience with these components, but it is attractive to have the ATS and 2 subpanel breakers in one smallish box.

This is a great idea! I'm not sure if that outdoor-rated box is really necessary, but anything would beat the size of the large NEMA steel box I have for 2 little 20-amp breakers in my 17B. BTW, the ETI factory manual I got with my 17B doesn't mention anywhere the inverter package with transfer switch.