Anderson Gen 3 hitch and F150 Super Crew Cab, Short (5.5ft) bed

[HJN]

I plan to install a Curt Double lock underbed gooseneck or B&W Turnoverball Underbed Gooseneck Hitch ( what ever of the 2 is the better or recommended?) to work with Anderson Gen 3 Hitch with another option of the standard or the toolbox version?
I know the standard Gen 3 is SAE Certified and toolbox version is not yet but does any one of you wise and experienced trailer people had any experience with either and will the shorter base on the toolbox version be less stable or safe?
Also ,if any one has used the Gen 3 with a short bed (5.5ft) F150 already ? What was the direction of the Kingpin coupler on the trailer ? The connection hole pointing to the front or towards the back? I understand that it is distance related with the ball and the bed sides. I will measure anyway but it will be nice to know what was done successfully already. Hope it make sense and I am waiting for some feedback and advice.

 

[Jeremy Kessenich]

It's my understanding that the added length from a 5.5' bed and a 6.5' bed is between the rear axle and the cab regardless of the style of the cab. Said another way, the bed length doesn't change the distance from the rear axle to the rear bumper. So, the king pin coupler on the Andersen hitch always should be to the rear not to the front no matter what size truck bed you have.

 

[Centex]

Jeremy is correct that the distance from the axle to the tailgate / rear bumper is the same for all 2021+ F150s regardless of bed length or cab configuration.

Also correct that the Andersen coupler block should be installed with the ball-socket to the rear; if it's to the front you greatly increase the risk of the pinbox conflicting with the bed side rails on a 2021+ F150 when the trailer is at a sharp angle relative to the truck. Note this applies for all generations and models of Andersen hitches (the ball is centered in the width of the bed for all of them and the bed width is the same for all 2021+ F150s).

will the shorter base on the toolbox version be less stable or safe?

Personally, I would not be concerned about that, other clearance factors would drive my selection.

 

[Centex]

I plan to install a Curt Double lock underbed gooseneck or B&W Turnoverball Underbed Gooseneck Hitch ( what ever of the 2 is the better or recommended?)

Just FYI, looking at the installation instructions for each of these for the 2021+ F150 application, I note that the Curt ball is located 45-7/16" from the back edge of the bed while the B&W is located 42-5/8" from the back of the bed. So, the Curt will place your Andersen pivot-point (the Andersen ball) 2-13/16" closer to the cab / farther from the tailgate.

Having an Andersen Gen 2 hitch with the B&W in my 2022 F150, a combination that works very well for me, I know I would not want the ball to be farther forward (mainly due to tailgate clearance). But, the Andersen Gen 3 (and I believe the toolbox version) have a different ball-offset in the base so my case does not directly apply to those hitches.

My point: Carefully consider the GN ball location and Andersen base ball-off-set for each as you compare the alternatives you mention. You're trying to find the best compromise between tailgate clearance and cab clearance, and inches do matter.

EDIT - Attached FYI is a diagram I constructed when considering 'upgrade' from my Gen 2 Andersen to a Gen 3 (an idea I abandoned as not beneficial for me). The dimension sources were measurements from my truck, the ETI 5.0 towing guide document, and various drawings available on the Andersen website. Taking the time to make similar sketches may be useful for your own evaluation of alternatives.

Just for your consideration, good luck and have fun!

 

[HJN]

THANK YOU so much guys, especially Centex , I really appreciate the info and the PDF .It made a lot of things clearer to me and basically ruled out the Curt!
thank you very much again for the help

 

[HJN]

hi Centex

on your diagrams option 4 ,that looks like the best outcome, would I not get the same result with coupler block to the front of the Kingpin ? it looks like the B&W 4 inch offset extender place the pivot 4 inch backward but the coupler block to rear of kingpin bring it 4 inch forward ? will the Coupler block to front of King pin not bring pivot point 4 inch back anyway , the same as 4 inch offset extender ? or do i miss something some where?
I hope this make sense , I am not sure how to implement it on your drawing because I am not sure what the measurements will be with the Kingpin forward?
PLEASE give your opinion and correct my way of thought . looking forward to hear from you

 

[Centex]

will the Coupler block to front of King pin not bring pivot point 4 inch back anyway , the same as 4 inch offset extender ? or do i miss something some where?

Remember those diagrams only illustrate fore / aft clearances, not the equally important side rail clearances (nor, for that matter, the again equally important vertical clearances).

As mentioned in a previous post, I would never recommend the coupler-block rotated forward of the kingpin due to potential side rail conflict with the back of the pinbox, which is not altered by use of the B&W extender. That's why none of my diagrams consider that 'alternative'.

 

[Centex]

@HJN , remember, too, that mine is a 6.5' box; for your 5.5' box the distance from GN Socket to cab and front of trailer to cab need to be reduced accordingly.

You're probably on top of this, mentioning just to be sure

 

[Jeremy Kessenich]

hi Centex

on your diagrams option 4 ,that looks like the best outcome, would I not get the same result with coupler block to the front of the Kingpin ? it looks like the B&W 4 inch offset extender place the pivot 4 inch backward but the coupler block to rear of kingpin bring it 4 inch forward ? will the Coupler block to front of King pin not bring pivot point 4 inch back anyway , the same as 4 inch offset extender ? or do i miss something some where?
I hope this make sense , I am not sure how to implement it on your drawing because I am not sure what the measurements will be with the Kingpin forward?
PLEASE give your opinion and correct my way of thought . looking forward to hear from you

I use the 4" offset with my Gen2 Andersen. Changing the Andersen coupler from rear to front moves the pivot point 8" not 4" rearward. The pivot point was 4" behind the kingpin to 4" to the front of the kingpin is a change of 8". In the drawings from Alan, the length of the pinbox is 32" (rear of the pinbox to the center of kingpin). With the coupler to the rear the distance or arc the rear of the pinbox swings when you turn is 28" (32" - 4"). If you have the coupler forward then you would add 4" to the length of the pinbox/pivot point to get 36" (32" + 4"). The arc the pinbox swings would go from 28" to 36". The 1st and 3rd drawings (without using the 4" offset) have 9 1/8" and 11 1/4" respectively for tailgate clearance, subtract 8" from those if you mounted the coupler forward and that would allow the rear of the pinbox to clear the tailgate but NOT your side rails. Using the 4" offset only moves the entire hitch back 4" and leaves the arc the rear of the pinbox swings at 28".

My side rails are about 62" apart, so from the center of the bed I have about 31" . I could not have a set up that had a 36" arc to the rear of the pinbox as I could impact the side rails.

I hope this helps pick up what Alan was putting down.

 

[HJN]

Hi Alan & Jeremy
Thank you so much again for the input and advice. It is really appreciated.
So just to recap.
1: No matter if it is 5.5 or 6.5 bed, the distance from tailgate to GN socket is going to be about 42.5 inches with B&W turnover ball?
2: Jeremy ,I assume you also have a 5.5 bed?
Just out of interest , apologies if it come across as a stupid question, but what height is your Anderson ball set at ? and would putting it to the high ball position not help with side rail clearance ?
As I have said , I am new to this but I am concerned with the trailer cab distance proximity to the truck cab when turning , hence all my questions to get try and get that distance as big as possible with my 5.5 bed ?
Thank you yet again for your time guys

 

[Jeremy Kessenich]

Good Morning HJN,

I'm assuming your 2nd question is due to my choice of using the 4" offset, nope, I have the 6.5' bed. I often could not open my tailgate as I wasn't straight enough when staying hitched for the night. So I'm using it not for cab clearance but for tailgate opening clearance with the trailer.

My ball only has two adjustment holes. Some folks have 3. I'm not sure I've read a satisfactory answer as to why some have 2 some have 3 as some folks who purchased after I did still have the 3 hole. I set mine to the lowest position. Sure you could set it to the highest position but the objective of the ball height is to tow your trailer level. Not only is it best for the suspension of your trailer, but it's important proper stability of the trailer and TV especially in heavy/emergency braking.

The pin box really does need to stay inside the bed rails. You're doing great problem solving and keep the questions coming. But like I said, it does need to stay inside.

You are very welcome. Alan and others were and still are a big help to me and so I have to try and pass on what they have done for me over the years. Oh and some of us have put info at the bottom of our boxes to show what equipment we have, like this:

 

[Centex]

1: No matter if it is 5.5 or 6.5 bed, the distance from tailgate to GN socket is going to be about 42.5 inches with B&W turnover ball?

Correct

what height is your Anderson ball set at ? and would putting it to the high ball position not help with side rail clearance ?

Just FYI, the 2-hole Gen 3 has a 14" high base and offers two ball heights

• 17-9/16"
• 19-9/16"

My 3-hole Gen 2 has a 13" high base and offers

• 16-1/2"
• 17-5/8"
• 18-3/4"

It's a mistake to consider ball-height as a tool for adjusting vertical clearance. Rather, IMO, the ball height should be set to provide the closest-to-level stance for your trailer as loaded for travel. This will vary depending on load, truck bed-height, and whether or not your trailer has the optional 'lift-kit' (which I recommend for the 5.0).

A lifted trailer will have better tailgate and side-rail vertical clearance, all other things being equal. The issue with a forward-rotated coupler block generally isn't vertical clearance but is horizontal clearance.

Once the ball-height is set for best trailer-level, the vertical clearances 'are what they are'.

I am concerned with the trailer cab distance proximity to the truck cab when turning , hence all my questions to get try and get that distance as big as possible with my 5.5 bed ?

Some hitch configurations (Andersen and others) may not allow a full 90-degree 'jackknife' with a 5.5ft bed. But note that's a very radical 'jackknife' and rarely needed / encountered in the real world; maneuvering into that radical bend puts a lot of stress on the trailer axles due to sideways 'tire scrub', especially on high-traction pavement.

I'm not even sure that the truck can turn sharp enough for this to be an issue when moving forward, but I doubt it can.

The slight limitation on radical jackknife-angle due to short-bed-cab-clearance is rarely mentioned as a real-world constraint. Owners with new trailers just go to an open parking-lot and carefully back-into a jackknife with the help of a 'spotter' to determine the sharpest angle that leaves some 'comfortable' cab clearance and note what the looks like to help avoid conflict in future backing situations.

In the same parking-lot-with-spotter 'test' one can make sharp turns while driving forward to see if cab-clearance is even an issue in that situation.

Bottom line, there are many folks happily towing 5.0s with 5.5ft beds using a variety of hitch configurations. Rarely do we see complaints about clearance issues other than open-tailgate horizontal clearance limitations, but that's common for any bed length.

 

[iamunique127]

I second what Alan and Jeremy say above: jack knifing is seldom a real-world consideration (although new owners are often quite concerned about it, including me). Do a test, see how far you can go and don’t exceed it but it is unlikely you will ever be in that situation.

 

[GregWCIL]

I second what Alan and Jeremy say above: jack knifing is seldom a real-world consideration (although new owners are often quite concerned about it, including me). Do a test, see how far you can go and don’t exceed it but it is unlikely you will ever be in that situation.

From a lifetime of experience backing all sizes of farm equipment, I can say the most common time to get into a bad position (like hitting your truck cab with a jackknifed trailer) is to get into a big hurry or an unfamiliar situation. For example, you get to the campground after dark in the rain. Or you are backing into a tight spot and another camper comes along while you are blocking the road.
Try to relax and don’t get in a hurry. Practice having your travel partner give you directions while they watch things you can’t see. (We carry walkie talkies to aid communication).
The old adage holds true: If you aren’t sure, Get Out And Look. Many accidents can be avoided by thinking first.

 

[meassick]

I have a 2022 F150 XLT with the 6.5' bed and use the third generation Andersen ultimate 5th wheel hitch ahdaptor, model 3220, connected to a BW turnover ball on my 5.0TA with the coupling block mounted rear facing, When the truck gate is down, there is about 2" of clearance between the gate and the metal frame of the trailer, not the negative clearance as indicated on the drawing by Centex. This works fine as long as the truck and trailer are fairly well aligned.
I have also tried using the 4" offsett coupler and this does give me an additional 4" of clearance when the gate is down. The trailer sits competely horizontal with the ball tube supplied with the Andersen hitch. Also, there is clearance between the pin holding the ball into the ball tube, at least when using the Anderson mat below the Andersen hitch

 

[meassick]

I have a 2022 F150 XLT with the 6.5' bed and use the third generation Andersen ultimate 5th wheel hitch ahdaptor, model 3220, connected to a BW turnover ball on my 5.0TA with the coupling block mounted rear facing, When the truck gate is down, there is about 2" of clearance between the gate and the metal frame of the trailer, not the negative clearance as indicated on the drawing by Centex. This works fine as long as the truck and trailer are fairly well aligned.
I have also tried using the 4" offsett coupler and this does give me an additional 4" of clearance when the gate is down. The trailer sits competely horizontal with the ball tube supplied with the Andersen hitch. Also, there is clearance between the pin holding the ball into the ball tube, at least when using the Anderson mat below the Andersen hitch

 

[meassick]

I have a 2022 F150 XLT with the 6.5' bed and use the third generation Andersen ultimate 5th wheel hitch ahdaptor, model 3220, connected to a BW turnover ball on my 5.0TA with the coupling block mounted rear facing, When the truck gate is down, there is about 2" of clearance between the gate and the metal frame of the trailer, not the negative clearance as indicated on the drawing by Centex. This works fine as long as the truck and trailer are fairly well aligned.
I have also tried using the 4" offsett coupler and this does give me an additional 4" of clearance when the gate is down. The trailer sits competely horizontal with the ball tube supplied with the Andersen hitch. Also, there is clearance between the pin holding the ball into the ball tube, at least when using the Anderson mat below the Andersen hitch

 

[Centex]

When the truck gate is down, there is about 2" of clearance between the gate and the metal frame of the trailer, not the negative clearance as indicated on the drawing by Centex.

Good to know that, I stand corrected, thank you!

Your 3rd pic showing the tailgate down ... was that hitched with or without the 4" offset in place?

You mention you've "tried using the 4" offset" - do you not use that typically, and if not, why not?

 

[meassick]

Good to know that, I stand corrected, thank you!

Your 3rd pic showing the tailgate down ... was that hitched with or without the 4" offset in place?

You mention you've "tried using the 4" offset" - do you not use that typically, and if not, why not?

The photo with the tailgate down is with the offset installed. The truck is at a significant angle to the trailer so it looks closer than it actually is.

This was just a test if the offsett would actually work, I borrowed the BW 4" offset from Jeremy to make sure that it would actually work, from a dimensional standpoint. So, no, I have not used it yet for a trip but will in the near future. It would be nice to have the extra clearance, but I want to make sure that there is no impact on handling since with the offsett the pivot point is now behind the rear axel, eventhough it is a small amount