Battery Monitor

[tdf-texas]

Discovered my battery switch was bad when doing something else. 12v was on regardless of switch on or off. ETI sent me another and I just changed it.

Worked fine for about 5 min. I turned lights on and then turned batt switch on and off a few times and lights were on and off also. I was pleased with that. and all was well.

I turned the batt switch off and was leaving the trailer. The ceiling light by the door came on. I leave it on so I can use the switch at the door to turn on lights before I step up in trailer.

Went back and checked the new batt switch. Same problem, always on.

When I was going to check the one I first removed to see if I got a reading of any kind. The lever switch came off in my hand when I turned it on.

Dustin said to get the switch I wanted and send him the bill. See how that works.

Looking at that switch was too funny to get real upset after a few minutes of dark thoughts.

This one works great. I mounted mine like the one in the middle of the pic in the same location as the original switch. Used a section of 1/2" plywood to back the thin paneling.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00445KFZ2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[ThomasG]

PS. the bluetooth adapter and app are not available and Balmar is not giving an estimated availability date. PKYS is the only vendor that I can find that sells the SG200 and they are out of stock. Seems the SG200 is still in development - they state that the monitor will be able to receive flash updates once the bluetooth adapter is available.

https://shop.pkys.com/Balmar-SG200-battery-monitor_p_7850.html

The CDI Electronics SG2-0300 Bluetooth Gateway for the SG200 is now available (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KGV1W55/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_AjJvEbY200E7T). Has anyone used it?

Amazon also has the SG200 battery monitor (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KGSS6DV/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_1UJvEb5S0P5SB).

 

[ChuckBC]

I like the KISS when it comes to electronics, especially monitors that do a 100 different functions and I get lost just trying to find amps out, left and state of batteries. I bought and will be installing a cheap $30 AiLi monitor after watching a video by Will Prowse (DIY Solar Power) on Youtube. This guy is great when it comes to reviews on solar and associated gadgets.

 

[Defenestrator]

I wish Escape used the marine-style rotary battery cutoff switches in the first place. The little toggle that came on mine is really easy to accidentally bump when you're at the dinette or if you're storing something underneath, and I'm kind of afraid I'll break it off one day.

 

[tdf-texas]

I wish Escape used the marine-style rotary battery cutoff switches in the first place. The little toggle that came on mine is really easy to accidentally bump when you're at the dinette or if you're storing something underneath, and I'm kind of afraid I'll break it off one day.

Had to chance to work on a 2019 Escape - guess what! They now use a rotary battery cutoff switch. No more toggle switch prone to breakage.

This doesn't help earlier owners but it shows Escape is listening to us.

 

[cpaharley2008]

Had to chance to work on a 2019 Escape - guess what! They now use a rotary battery cutoff switch. No more toggle switch prone to breakage.

Must be a late 2019, mine still has toggle...

 

[tdf-texas]

Must be a late 2019, mine still has toggle...

I worked on the trailer in Nov. 2019 and it was new so it should have been a late 2019. On the trailer I worked on, it was mounted in the back of the U shaped dinette cabinets.

Below is a pic of the new switch.

 

[Eggscape]

I have not done up my battery install yet but really like this quality switch I installed just after purchasing the trailer. It is very flexible in the way the wires can enter it and how the terminals are protected by a cover.
Change the default shipping to “ePacket” and pay the few extra cents. It turns shipping into priority post when it hits Canada and you can expect it in 20 to 26 days.

http://s.aliexpress.com/qyQv26ri

 

[vermilye]

Just a heads up for those using a battery monitor to check on over wintering batteries - it doesn't monitor self discharge. While obvious once you think about it, the only useful reading on the monitor is voltage, and with lithium, voltage is not all that useful.

My Victron 712 was/is wonderful for monitoring the trailer's 12V system during normal operation & gave me an accurate state of charge of my batteries. Now that it is sitting in the driveway with no charging system connected, I noticed that the % of charge never moved. Again, obvious since self discharge doesn't go through the shunt, but since the self discharge of lithium batteries is very low, and voltage measurements are not an accurate way to determine SOC of lithium batteries, I discovered that I could not depend on the battery monitor to determine the state of charge of the batteries. I found that I had 12.8V one day, and low voltage shut off by the Battleborn BMS the next.

I plugged in an electric heater to bring the batteries up to 35°F, and recharged them without problems, but if I didn't have 120V AC available, I would have had to pull them & move them to a warm enough location to recharge them.

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

Just a heads up for those using a battery monitor to check on over wintering batteries - it doesn't monitor self discharge. While obvious once you think about it, the only useful reading on the monitor is voltage, and with lithium, voltage is not all that useful.

I would say that the CURRENT is a very useful measurement, but you're right, it can't measure self discharge.

the Lithium batteries I'm more familiar with, Li-Ions like 18650s, the voltage at rest is VERY useful, it goes from 4.2V for a freshly charged battery right off the charger down to about 2.9V for a mostly discharged battery, quite linearly.

also, Lithium batteries have very slow/little self discharge, much less than Lead based batteries. My 18650s have 80% or more of their charge after a year of sitting around. again, I don't have any experrience with LiFePo4 so I dunno if those are different.

 

[rubicon327]

Just a heads up for those using a battery monitor to check on over wintering batteries - it doesn't monitor self discharge. While obvious once you think about it, the only useful reading on the monitor is voltage, and with lithium, voltage is not all that useful.

My Victron 712 was/is wonderful for monitoring the trailer's 12V system during normal operation & gave me an accurate state of charge of my batteries. Now that it is sitting in the driveway with no charging system connected, I noticed that the % of charge never moved. Again, obvious since self discharge doesn't go through the shunt, but since the self discharge of lithium batteries is very low, and voltage measurements are not an accurate way to determine SOC of lithium batteries, I discovered that I could not depend on the battery monitor to determine the state of charge of the batteries. I found that I had 12.8V one day, and low voltage shut off by the Battleborn BMS the next.

I plugged in an electric heater to bring the batteries up to 35°F, and recharged them without problems, but if I didn't have 120V AC available, I would have had to pull them & move them to a warm enough location to recharge them.

Jon: I'm confused. I thought one of the advantages of lithium was the incredibly low self-discharge. My expectation would have been that if you isolated them with at least 50% state-of-charge you wouldn't have needed to even check on the batteries all winter. I have heard reports that the Victron battery monitor itself can slowly pull down batteries during long-term storage. Would completely disconnecting all leads on the battery possibly help? Please elaborate on what you think your issue is because I am close to pulling the trigger on lithium and would like to avoid surprises.

 

[vermilye]

Jon: I'm confused. I thought one of the advantages of lithium was the incredibly low self-discharge. My expectation would have been that if you isolated them with at least 50% state-of-charge you wouldn't have needed to even check on the batteries all winter. I have heard reports that the Victron battery monitor itself can slowly pull down batteries during long-term storage. Would completely disconnecting all leads on the battery possibly help? Please elaborate on what you think your issue is because I am close to pulling the trigger on lithium and would like to avoid surprises.

I made the same assumptions. I opened the battery disconnect on October 23rd with the batteries at 75% by the monitor. I expected to get through the entire winter, but January 10th the battery BMS shut them down. I checked the voltage sometime last week & it was 12.8V. The voltage varied a couple of 10ths with temperature changes, but pretty much stayed the same between October & now.

The only load on the trailer was the Victron monitor & the display shuts down after 10 seconds or so, and the "keep settings" connection to the radio. Since the radio connection goes through the shunt and the current through the shunt never showed anything other than 0 amps, I don't believe either load would have caused the problem.

While they suggest storing at 50% - 85%, this time I ran the batteries to a full charge. Currently sitting at 13.26V. When reviewing the History page on the Victron monitor, it shows the Minimum Battery Voltage as 9.27V which is what I suspect it was when I started recharging them.

Why? Who knows. I will attempt to keep an eye on them for the rest of the winter.

 

[rubicon327]

I wish Escape used the marine-style rotary battery cutoff switches in the first place. The little toggle that came on mine is really easy to accidentally bump when you're at the dinette or if you're storing something underneath, and I'm kind of afraid I'll break it off one day.

This is the replacement switch I installed recently to replace the toggle. It is smaller than the Blue Sea marine battery switches some have installed but still rated for 100A.
Powerwerx PanelHDSW Heavy Duty 100A Panel Mount ON-OFF Battery Switch

 

[Telescopist]

I made the same assumptions. I opened the battery disconnect on October 23rd with the batteries at 75% by the monitor. I expected to get through the entire winter, but January 10th the battery BMS shut them down. I checked the voltage sometime last week & it was 12.8V. The voltage varied a couple of 10ths with temperature changes, but pretty much stayed the same between October & now.

The only load on the trailer was the Victron monitor & the display shuts down after 10 seconds or so, and the "keep settings" connection to the radio. Since the radio connection goes through the shunt and the current through the shunt never showed anything other than 0 amps, I don't believe either load would have caused the problem.

While they suggest storing at 50% - 85%, this time I ran the batteries to a full charge. Currently sitting at 13.26V. When reviewing the History page on the Victron monitor, it shows the Minimum Battery Voltage as 9.27V which is what I suspect it was when I started recharging them.

Why? Who knows. I will attempt to keep an eye on them for the rest of the winter.

This is an interesting conversation. My 21 is outside in a gated storage facility. I do not have shore power. I'm using an AiLi Battery monitor to keep track of 'things'. I haven't visited the trailer in over 3 weeks. Here are some snapshots of the various readings when I toggled through. When programing the monitor I set 'full capacity' to 112Ah. The monitor reports that the batteries are taking in 0.161A coming from the solar panel of course. It appears that my batteries are staying charged.

 

[Centex]

Jon, it doesn't alter the fact that the monitor can't quantify 'self discharge' but I'm curious if you have ever after initial installation verified the "Synchronisation" (Victron spelling) of your SmartShunt vs battery SOC per discussion in the SmartShunt manual, or if you are only relying on the "Automatic synchronisation"?

 

[vermilye]

At least one difference - I do not have the solar panels connected. I was expecting the lithium batteries to hold the charge over the winter without any additional charging. For what ever reason, they didn't.

If I had to guess, I suspect the batteries started out at a lower SOC than the Victron 712 indicated. The radio "keep settings" connection, the 712 monitor, and the solar controller are the only things that are connected to the batteries when the battery disconnect switch is open, and the monitor dod not show any amperage draw or accumulated amperage over the duration, so I doubt any of them caused the problem. Still, the 12.8V seems low for a lithium battery at 75%.

Since recharging the batteries to 13.25V, it has only been a couple of days, but they are still at 13.24V this morning.

 

[vermilye]

Jon, it doesn't alter the fact that the monitor can't quantify 'self discharge' but I'm curious if you have ever after initial installation verified the "Synchronisation" (Victron spelling) of your SmartShunt vs battery SOC per discussion in the SmartShunt manual, or if you are only relying on the "Automatic synchronisation"?

When using the trailer with solar, I depend on the automatic sync.

I do a manual sync if I'm in a campground where I have charged the batteries from the converter for more than 24 hours.

 

[Centex]

When using the trailer with solar, I depend on the automatic sync.

I do a manual sync if I'm in a campground where I have charged the batteries from the converter for more than 24 hours.

Gotchya. Can you detect from that routine if the manual sync is making any difference, or does it seem to stay in good sync just from the automatic process? Again, just curious.

 

[vermilye]

As long as I'm hitting the absorption stage on the solar controller daily, the % charge seems accurate. I haven't had more than a 3 day straight without reaching absorption, so no idea what effect a long time of minimal charging would produce.

 

[Centex]

Got it, thank you!