Battery not charging on shore power then resumed

[joebuoy]

[FONT=&quot]I have a 2023 E19 that I picked up on Sept. 12. This is our first trailer and I'm still learning about the electrical/solar components. The trailer has 4 lithium batteries, 2 solar panels, an inverter, and the WFCO power center all supplied by ETI. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The trailer was connected to shore power in our driveway since late September. The Victron 712 battery monitor showed the percent charge at 100%. The EMS shows EO and normal values for the other parameters. The only 120v load was a small dehumidifier that drew about 1 amp. The 12v load was around .5 amps from the Maxx Fan and propane detector.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Around midnight on Oct. 30, the voltage dropped from 13.68v to 13.3v in about 10 hours. The battery charge percentage also started to drop. I didn't notice the battery was discharging for a few days. Solar panel charging and TV charging all worked. The 120v systems were working: fridge and outlets. The 12v systems were working: lights, Maxx Fan, power jack. I had no blown fuses, flipped breakers or any indication of an electrical problem besides the battery was not being charged on shore power. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I've read the multiple forum threads on shore power not charging the battery and the threads on the trailer wiring diagrams. Today I started trouble shooting the problem based on these threads and WFCO manual. I tested the voltage with a multimeter and the battery cutoff switch in the on and off position for each voltage test. The battery monitor was reporting 86% and 12.27v when I started.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]- The two reverse polarity fuses are good[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- I don’t have the inline fuse to the battery.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- I tested the WFCO voltage across the negative lug and +VCC lug (both positive terminals). [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- I tested the voltage across the battery cut off switch[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- On the battery side, I tested the voltage at all the connection points and the battery terminals[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I didn’t find any voltage anomalies in my limited understand of the systems. I think the voltage was around 12.3 volts.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I went back into the house to look the WFCO troubleshooting guide flowchart. When I returned, I could hear the WFCO fan running and the battery monitor showed the batteries were being charged. In a couple hours the batteries were fully charged and the battery voltage is 13.7v.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The only thing I did was toggle the battery cutoff switch maybe a dozen times. Any guesses on what may have happened?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]When I was putting the cover back on the WFCO, I noticed a small black screw on the floor near the cover that must have fallen out of the cabinet. The screw looks like something for attaching the WFCO cabinet and not electrical connection related. I haven’t found where the screw came from. I will look again tomorrow.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is it possible this screw somehow came in contact with some electrical connections and prevented charging the battery while everything else worked?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I’m confused on what caused the battery to stopped being charged while on shore power and what caused the battery charging to resume. Any thoughts or comments on this situation?
[/FONT]

 

[Ooshkaboo]

[FONT=&quot]I have a 2023 E19 that I picked up on Sept. 12. This is our first trailer and I'm still learning about the electrical/solar components. The trailer has 4 lithium batteries, 2 solar panels, an inverter, and the WFCO power center all supplied by ETI. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The trailer was connected to shore power in our driveway since late September. The Victron 712 battery monitor showed the percent charge at 100%. The EMS shows EO and normal values for the other parameters. The only 120v load was a small dehumidifier that drew about 1 amp. The 12v load was around .5 amps from the Maxx Fan and propane detector.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Around midnight on Oct. 30, the voltage dropped from 13.68v to 13.3v in about 10 hours. The battery charge percentage also started to drop. I didn't notice the battery was discharging for a few days. Solar panel charging and TV charging all worked. The 120v systems were working: fridge and outlets. The 12v systems were working: lights, Maxx Fan, power jack. I had no blown fuses, flipped breakers or any indication of an electrical problem besides the battery was not being charged on shore power. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I've read the multiple forum threads on shore power not charging the battery and the threads on the trailer wiring diagrams. Today I started trouble shooting the problem based on these threads and WFCO manual. I tested the voltage with a multimeter and the battery cutoff switch in the on and off position for each voltage test. The battery monitor was reporting 86% and 12.27v when I started.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]- The two reverse polarity fuses are good[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- I don’t have the inline fuse to the battery.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- I tested the WFCO voltage across the negative lug and +VCC lug (both positive terminals). [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- I tested the voltage across the battery cut off switch[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- On the battery side, I tested the voltage at all the connection points and the battery terminals[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I didn’t find any voltage anomalies in my limited understand of the systems. I think the voltage was around 12.3 volts.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I went back into the house to look the WFCO troubleshooting guide flowchart. When I returned, I could hear the WFCO fan running and the battery monitor showed the batteries were being charged. In a couple hours the batteries were fully charged and the battery voltage is 13.7v.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The only thing I did was toggle the battery cutoff switch maybe a dozen times. Any guesses on what may have happened?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]When I was putting the cover back on the WFCO, I noticed a small black screw on the floor near the cover that must have fallen out of the cabinet. The screw looks like something for attaching the WFCO cabinet and not electrical connection related. I haven’t found where the screw came from. I will look again tomorrow.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is it possible this screw somehow came in contact with some electrical connections and prevented charging the battery while everything else worked?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I’m confused on what caused the battery to stopped being charged while on shore power and what caused the battery charging to resume. Any thoughts or comments on this situation?
[/FONT]

A poor job of crimping, quite a headache for me. I found it accidentally, don’t be surprised if you find the same problem elsewhere. l should’ve been checking for it first sign of problems after I discovered this same issue with my brakes.

 

[DT6]

With multiple batteries, it sounds like you have a parallel connection.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...ted-pdf-en.pdf

See battery bank wiring methods on page 15 to verify yours are connected the same way. This method allows for all batteries to charge and discharge evenly. My issue was that I did not connect mine this way initially and we believe it caused a charge imbalance and my batteries would not charge. This may or may not be your issue, but worth a check. Good luck, and BTW Escape has been pretty good lately about helping. You might try giving them a call and setting up a time when they can call and work the issue with you.

 

[joebuoy]

The batteries are connected in parallel.

 

[oldwave]

The batteries are connected in parallel.

wiring should be diagonal with the furthest negative to the frame grounds then the positive connected to the loads and charger.
See Victrons battery diagrams in Wiring Unlimited (a free download). There are other proper ways to connect them so look carefully at the diagrams then compare your wiring.

 

[joebuoy]

This is how ETI wired my 4 lithium batteries

 

[oldwave]

This is how ETI wired my 4 lithium batteries

That is correct, though I think the wire gauge is a bit light.

 

[GinoandLinda]

This is how ETI wired my 4 lithium batteries

Exactly how ETI wired mine as well. Very little slack if any, in the cables. Cable is #2 gauge which is the common size for battery cables.

 

[oldwave]

Exactly how ETI wired mine as well. Very little slack if any, in the cables. Cable is #2 gauge which is the common size for battery cables.

Should be 2/0 not 2 . Many users with that size bank use 4/0 especially with an inverter. My opinion stands, undersized wire for the battery bank.

 

[GinoandLinda]

Should be 2/0 not 2 . Many users with that size bank use 4/0 especially with an inverter. My opinion stands, undersized wire for the battery bank.

Guess we have to agree to disagree on that one. If I was starting a diesel on a cold winters day, 2/0 would do it. Running a Keurig off a 1500watt inverter, 2awg all day long.

 

[oldwave]

Guess we have to agree to disagree on that one. If I was starting a diesel on a cold winters day, 2/0 would do it. Running a Keurig off a 1500watt inverter, 2awg all day long.

The combined output of 4 lithium batteries in parallel is capable of 400 amps continuous. According to the Victron wiring maximum amp up to 5 meters of 4/0 is 285 amps continuous. Granted you probably aren't pulling all those amps out the battery unless your running the a high load. Me I'd rather be safer and size the cable to the maximum battery rating. Your trailer. I've got no skin in the game.

 

[Perry Butler]

Should be 2/0 not 2 . Many users with that size bank use 4/0 especially with an inverter. My opinion stands, undersized wire for the battery bank.

Yup!

2 is too small! I used 2/0 in both my 5.0 and our Bigfoot at the advice of the manufacturers. 2 is ass u m ing you have perfect connections/crimps. I never ass u me.

However, reading the Go Power 1500 Watt Inverter Manual, on page 23, Go Power advises a 1 awg cable. That should be their advice for a minimum size cable. Personally, I would also go with a 2/0 for less resistance if something is amiss.

I don't shoot for minimums, but instead shoot for a working system with plenty of headroom. Cable is actually very cheap, especially when comparing it to the total cost of the inverter.

Food for thought,

Perry

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

quality fine strand pure copper heavy gauge cable is NOT that cheap anymore. cheap cable is often under gauge, and partly aluminum. My 2000W Renogy puresine inverter was only like $250.

ok, $100 for 10 ft each of 2/0 red & black... this is decent cable
https://www.amazon.com/WINDYNATION-Welding-Battery-Copper-Inverter/dp/B017N8ZVAK

 

[oldwave]

quality fine strand pure copper heavy gauge cable is NOT that cheap anymore. cheap cable is often under gauge, and partly aluminum. My 2000W Renogy puresine inverter was only like $250.

ok, $100 for 10 ft each of 2/0 red & black... this is decent cable
https://www.amazon.com/WINDYNATION-Welding-Battery-Copper-Inverter/dp/B017N8ZVAK

That’s what I used in my install

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

I wired each of my two 206AH batteries with its own 150A fuse to a common bus bar using 2 awg, only about 2 feet long. ditto two ground wires to the ground bus bar. the inverter comes directly off the + and - 250A bus bars with the dual awg 2 cables that came with the inverter, they were just the right length. the battery cutoff switch is between the DC converter and these bus bars, so the inverter and the solar converter do not go through the cut-off switch, but the power converter and all the 'house' loads do.

 

[GinoandLinda]

Interesting. Guess maybe I do have to up my cable game.
Following that logic, however, that would mean the entire trailer is under spec’d for wiring.

 

[Perry Butler]

quality fine strand pure copper heavy gauge cable is NOT that cheap anymore. cheap cable is often under gauge, and partly aluminum. My 2000W Renogy puresine inverter was only like $250.

ok, $100 for 10 ft each of 2/0 red & black... this is decent cable
https://www.amazon.com/WINDYNATION-Welding-Battery-Copper-Inverter/dp/B017N8ZVAK

I paid less than $80 for the 2/0 cables for our last install. Compared to the $1,200 for our batteries, $650 for the inverter, and another $100 for misc. that $80 is cheap, and my 2.0 cables will not be a bottleneck. So for me, the $80 is irrelevant.

I used BatteryCablesUSA.com for my last two installs.

Food for thought,

Perry

 

[JayPriebe]

The only thing I did was toggle the battery cutoff switch maybe a dozen times. Any guesses on what may have happened?

Hi @joebuoy ,

Did you ever discover the issue and solve it? I have a 2022 E19 with one LiFePO4 battery, 2 panels, and WFCO power center. Lately, it has stopped charging my battery from shore power. I have the same issue as you originally reported (before this thread turned into a wire sizing discussion). If I toggle the MAIN breaker on the WFCO breaker panel, the battery immediately starts charging again. I have not yet phoned Escape for this. Was hoping to solve it here in the Forum.

 

[Micheal K]

I’ve read several reports that the lithium battery auto detect feature of WFCO converters didn’t work properly or was finicky. If the converter has reverted to a lead-acid profile, it won’t properly charge LFP batteries.

Maybe that’s behind the problem you and the OP are experiencing.

 

[joebuoy]

I was just a newbie (first trailer) and I did not understand how the WFCO power center functioned. Reading the manual, if the WFCO power center doesn't detect a change in the power consumption after a few days, it goes into a mode that lets the Lithium batteries discharge to around 70% SOC (maybe a little less), then recharges the batteries to 100%.

My understanding is that this behavior extends the life of the Lithium batteries.