BC's Provincial Camp Grounds Rip-off

[Brian B-P]

I agree with baglo - the Canadian dollar is not particularly low now compared to the Euro. Those European visitors are getting about the value for their money here as they have since 2014 or 2007 through 2009.

In contrast, the last year has been a bad time for Europeans to spend their money in the United States - they don't get much value for their money compared to the previous several years.

(from XE.com - EUR/CAD Chart and XE.com - EUR/USD Chart)

 

[J Mac]

You cancel, so it doesn't cost you for the reservation or the campsite. The idea is to discourage those who deliberately ditch the first day.
[/QUOTE
But it does cost you the reservation fee and that's what the original post is referring to with the term 'rip-off'!!

 

[Brian B-P]

You cancel, so it doesn't cost you for the reservation or the campsite. The idea is to discourage those who deliberately ditch the first day.

But it does cost you the reservation fee and that's what the original post is referring to with the term 'rip-off'!!

Hmm... I think we're mixing up the original item (there is a fee to reserve a BC site) and the suggested solutions to cheating on reservations and the consequences.

Sure, if a reservation fee is non-refundable or if it can only be refunded by calling ahead, having a breakdown (especially out of phone service) could cost a few dollars in reservation fees. Oh well, I don't think the world will end; if I have a breakdown - especially in an area with no communications service - the reservation fee is going to be least of my concerns. The alternative would be that people would reserve sites just in case they happened to want it (e.g. reserve four possible locations, go where you feel like that day, cancel the rest), which would result in more people unable to reserve sites that they genuinely intend to use.

 

[Greg A]

I agree with baglo - the Canadian dollar is not particularly low now compared to the Euro. Those European visitors are getting about the value for their money here as they have since 2014 or 2007 through 2009.

In contrast, the last year has been a bad time for Europeans to spend their money in the United States - they don't get much value for their money compared to the previous several years.

(from XE.com - EUR/CAD Chart and XE.com - EUR/USD Chart)

It's not anything to do with whether the value is higher or lower historically, it is that they are not getting the best deal currently in USD vs CAD which is where you end up in the last para.
Today it's approx 1 Eur to 1.43 CAD vs 1 Eur to 1.13 US. Canada is the value for them right now if they choose between the 2 to travel. US was in that position a few years back and our parks were packed with foreign visitors, similar to what the poster is observing in the CAD parks currently.

 

[Brian B-P]

I had an interesting discussion with another guest at a hotel in Banff several years ago. He was British, and on a ski vacation with his family (yes, it was winter at a ski resort, not a confused tourist looking for igloos in July ) His family had stumbled onto Banff as an alternative to continental Europe for their annual ski vacation - lower cost (even after including airfare a quarter of the way around the world) and skiing which was just as good. What I found hilarious was that we were in a luxury resort (or in my case, business convention) hotel and he was paying full price for the room! Everything is relative to your other alternatives...

Today it's approx 1 Eur to 1.43 CAD vs 1 Eur to 1.13 US. Canada is the value for them right now if they choose between the 2 to travel.

Although current currency conditions may have driven European visitors out of the U.S., there's no way to know which North American country is the better deal for them unless you also consider prices. It doesn't matter that one Euro buys them CA$1.43 rather than US$1.13, if what costs them CA$1.43 in Canada only costs them a dollar in the U.S... which is probably true. Maybe they're better off (can buy more food, fuel, etc) by getting 20.45 Mexican pesos for their euro? For visitors from Spain, they wouldn't even have a language issue.

 

[J Mac]

Hmm... I think we're mixing up the original item (there is a fee to reserve a BC site) and the suggested solutions to cheating on reservations and the consequences.

Sure, if a reservation fee is non-refundable or if it can only be refunded by calling ahead, having a breakdown (especially out of phone service) could cost a few dollars in reservation fees. Oh well, I don't think the world will end; if I have a breakdown - especially in an area with no communications service - the reservation fee is going to be least of my concerns. The alternative would be that people would reserve sites just in case they happened to want it (e.g. reserve four possible locations, go where you feel like that day, cancel the rest), which would result in more people unable to reserve sites that they genuinely intend to use.

Actually what happens is, if a camper reserves a bc provincial camp site for three days. He/she is charged the daily rate plus a reservation fee for those three days. If the campers plans change and he/she cancels the reservation he/she looses the reservation fee for those three days but is refunded the daily rate. That is a rip off as I see it in my original post.

 

[gbaglo]

CTV news story tonight:

Campers angry, death threat issued over B.C.’s campsite reservation system | CTV Vancouver News

 

[LarryandLiz]

From the article.......

-------
A couple from Salmon Arm has made a business out of helping Europeans book campsites. Now they say they are being falsely accused of scalping – and they’ve even had a death threat over it.

“They threaten that they know where to find us, and they will come to Salmon Arm and it won't end well,” said Carla Van der Kraats, co-owner of Canadian Camping Adventures.
-------------

The practice of a company booking blocks of sites for anyone foreigners to BC or not rubs me the wrong way in a big way.


This article discusses the company selling to overseas customers more fully

B.C. campers face a sold-out summer as private companies ‘block’ them out of provincial campsites | National Post

 

[LarryandLiz]

I'd have no problem if private companies booked blocks of sites at private campgrounds but not at our provincial CG.

We drove up to Wells Gray (admittedly without reservations but during the shoulder season) and got "left overs" because of this issue. Actually at the time I was stuck by how few locals were going up to Wells Grey. The waterfalls are awesome. It is a beautiful park.

This is Dawson Falls

 

[Rossue2]

A big part of the problem is simple capacity. Expanding existing campgrounds and adding new ones of course is not easy due to all the regulatory hoops however as the population grows this will need to be done or the problems will get worse.

 

[steve dunham]

In some States you could reserve campsites and cancel ,then get your reservation fee or partial fee back .Where we are you pay a $10 reservation fee and if you cancel , you loose your reservation fee and pay a cancellation fee plus if you cancel without 48 hours notice you also pay one nights camping fee. You can blame government but a lot of the fault lies with us. Under the old system people were booking multiple prime campsites for holiday weekends at a popular Wisconsin State Parks and then selling the campsites for profit on Craig's list. If they couldn't sell them all they just cancelled the remaining sites and got a refund . "SCALPING CAMPSITES"
Others were reserving sites for multiple weekends at multiple parks and then cancelling which ones they didn't want at no cost to them. This practice tied up campsites so that others could not use them and caused sites to sit vacant costing the park revenue
It's easy to blame some government agency but they are only reacting to the abuses of the general public.

 

[J Mac]

Provincial campgrounds have a clever rip-off in place. Securing a campground in some provincial parks is very difficult, but the user still has to wade through an archaic system to anchor a camp site. A new system is apparently on deck for the future. In the meantime a $6.00 per day reservation fee is added, on top of daily rates, to the campers confirmation. This reservation fee is non refundable if plans change. So, in essence, we are being charged for doing all the work! In some ways it's similar to Ticket Masters ripoff fees with one difference. A concert ticket can be scalped, a camping reservation no longer can.

More to this point:
Porteau Cove, a BC Provincial Park, has no first come first served sites so a camper is forced to pay a reservation fee as well as a camp fee to stay there. Once again, the reservation fee is lost if plans change...even if 2 months notice is given.
That is a rip-off!

 

[padlin]

When we we pulled in a day early at Custer State Park, we had to call ReserveAmerica to get one of the open sites for the one night, and pay the reservation fee for the one night. There is/was no way to pay at the campground. Seemed kind of asinine.

 

[Starbrightsteve]

Reservation blues

I think the best solution to all of the issues mentioned in this thread is to eliminate reservations and make all public camping, first come first served. I for one don't need or want reserve America or whatever the reservation organization calls itself. Now, having said that, I know it will never happen. Folks are too insecure to allow the possibility that their favorite spot won't be available when they arrive.

 

[steve dunham]

More to this point:
Porteau Cove, a BC Provincial Park, has no first come first served sites so a camper is forced to pay a reservation fee as well as a camp fee to stay there.
" Once again, the reservation fee is lost if plans change...even if 2 months notice is given.
That is a rip-off!

"

Why is that a RIPOFF ? You paid for a reservation and you received a reservation . You decided to cancel the reservation , they did not.
If you showed up and they gave away your reserved site then I could see them returning your reservation fee . There are costs to running the reservation system , so if they returned your reservation fee then you get something for nothing. You 'll get no sympathy from me. If you make a reservation and then change your mind then you pay the price for changing your mind.

 

[Greg A]

I think the best solution to all of the issues mentioned in this thread is to eliminate reservations and make all public camping, first come first served. I for one don't need or want reserve America or whatever the reservation organization calls itself. Now, having said that, I know it will never happen. Folks are too insecure to allow the possibility that their favorite spot won't be available when they arrive.

This is the way AZ parks were 3-4 years ago. You had to rip the kids out of school at the pickup line on Friday and race to the mountains to have a chance at a spot in the campground. If they were full had to try the next one and sometimes you would have to drive back home very discouraged. Now you know you have a campsite and you can go up at your leisure on Friday. Way better system than no reservation capabilities as it was before. I think the bigger problem is that there are just getting to be too many dang RV people fighting for limited space now.

 

[rbryan4]

I'd have no problem if private companies booked blocks of sites at private campgrounds but not at our provincial CG.

I couldn't agree more Larry. Those parks are part of your national heritage - and as Canadians, you should get the priority to enjoy them. They don't "belong" to the government, but to you.

 

[J Mac]

"

Why is that a RIPOFF ? You paid for a reservation and you received a reservation . You decided to cancel the reservation , they did not.
If you showed up and they gave away your reserved site then I could see them returning your reservation fee . There are costs to running the reservation system , so if they returned your reservation fee then you get something for nothing. You 'll get no sympathy from me. If you make a reservation and then change your mind then you pay the price for changing your mind.

I guess I believe that a reservation for an airline is free as is a court at a tennis club, not to mention restaurants, car rentals and so on. These reservations are free to cancel. My camp ground reservation is done by me for me and if canceled it is canceled by me all by my computer. At Porteau Cove the only way to stay there is by paying a reservation fee because they haven't got first come first served sites!

If I bought an item and then changed my mind about it, I could return it.

 

[LarryandLiz]

If I bought an item and then changed my mind about it, I could return it.

I agree with you about paying to reserve = ripoff when a CG has nothing but reservable sites. However, once you've bought something you can't return it merely because you've changed your mind. The seller may let you do so but depending on the wording of the contract you are stuck with the item.

 

[steve dunham]

I guess I believe that a reservation for an airline is free as is a court at a tennis club, not to mention restaurants, car rentals and so on. These reservations are free to cancel. My camp ground reservation is done by me for me and if canceled it is canceled by me all by my computer. At Porteau Cove the only way to stay there is by paying a reservation fee because they haven't got first come first served sites!

If I bought an item and then changed my mind about it, I could return it.

Airlines restaurants ,rental cars are for profit companies and are free to do what they wish . Public parks are funded by taxes and user fees . If you don't like their reservation fees or policy then go to a private campgrounds . I don't want to pay more for my reservation fees so you can have the luxury of cancelling your reservation for no reason and at no cost.to you.
Let's just agree to disagree you can go on [moderator edit] and I will go on mine, camping
In Wisconsin you would pay a $9.65 reservation fee and if you cancel a $5.00 cancellation fee . Neither is refundable.
It's the price of doing business !!