E19 Dometic 11k btu breaker size?

7Gentex

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Initial once over of my new E19's electrical systems today, noticed that the air conditioner breaker (or labeled as so!) is a 20 amp. Dometic shows a 15 amp in their specs for a 640310C45X. Should I change it out for a 15?


I have not opened up the WFCO yet to check connections.............and it appears the converter and fridge are on the same breaker for some reason.........?
 

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Initial once over of my new E19's electrical systems today, noticed that the air conditioner breaker (or labeled as so!) is a 20 amp. Dometic shows a 15 amp in their specs for a 640310C45X. Should I change it out for a 15?
There is no need to change it. The appliance manufacturer specifies a minimum circuit capacity; the breaker can be anything from that up to the capacity of the wiring actually used for the circuit. Assuming that the circuit has 12 gauge cable (which ETI does use on 20 A circuits), the 20 amp breaker is appropriate.

I have not opened up the WFCO yet to check connections.............and it appears the converter and fridge are on the same breaker for some reason.........?
Yes, ETI tends to save a breaker by putting these two circuits on the same breaker. The total current requirement of the refrigerator and converter is well within the 15 A circuit capacity, and these two items are compatible in the sense that if you are running from an inverter you wouldn't want either of these turned on - that's why they're not in the inverter-supplied sub-panel. If you really want them separate, you could presumably replace the wide 15A breaker with two separate narrow breakers, since these two circuits are usually tied together within the WFCO power centre.
 
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Winnebago also tends to design their electric systems with the converter and fridge on one breaker. Its a matter of two very compatible loads. If both are running, they will not overload the circuit.

On a 30 amp panel, you are limited by National Electric Code Article 551-42 (C)
This is quoting from the 2011 edition but this particular section has not appreciably changed.

(C) Two to Five 15- or 20-Ampere Circuits. A maximum of five 15- or 20-ampere circuits to supply lights, receptacle outlets, and fixed appliances shall be permitted. Such recreational vehicles shall be permitted to be equipped with distribution panelboards rated 120 volts maximum or 120/240 volts maximum and listed for 30-ampere application supplied by the appropriate power-supply assemblies. Not more than two 120-volt thermostatically controlled appliances (e.g., air conditioner and water heater) shall be installed in such systems unless appliance isolation switching, energy management systems, or similar methods are used.

This same section also requires energy management such as a load shed box, if you have three appliances controlled by automatic thermostats, such as a electric water heater, Air Conditioner, convection microwave, electric heating element for the absorption fridge.

This is a requirement because the manufacturer has chosen to comply with it, in order to maintain approval of the RVIA (that oval sticker on the outside of your RV). Some campgrounds, insurance companies, other organizations may consider it a requirement to get insurance, camp, etc. This is of course a way of excluding schoolies, ambulance conversions, van conversions, etc.

NEC doesn't say this for the fun of it, they specify such things as a way of providing a level of safety in the design of the system.

My SOB trailer had the electric water heater on a general purpose circuit, the microwave on a dedicated circuit, and the air conditioner on a dedicated circuit. On later models the manufacturer elected to install a manual change over switch and put the microwave and water heater on the same breaker. Great until you select MW and later turn on the WH and forget that it doesn't have any 120v going to it, and you are ready for a shower. I elected to install a load shed box that makes the WH and MW to both have power but when the MW exerts a load beyond the digital controls and the interior light, it shuts off the WH. When the MW shuts off, plus 30 seconds, the power to the WH is restored.

Charles
 
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So, is the "Microwave Only" 120v single outlet labeling in the cabinet above my E19's 5cf Dometic refridge a byproduct of the NEC/RVIA specs?

I'm guessing that that receptacle is on one of the two 15 amp transfer switched circuits.

Just curious as to why the "Microwave Only" aspect?
 
So, is the "Microwave Only" 120v single outlet labeling in the cabinet above my E19's 5cf Dometic refridge a byproduct of the NEC/RVIA specs?

I'm guessing that that receptacle is on one of the two 15 amp transfer switched circuits.

Just curious as to why the "Microwave Only" aspect?

I don’t think this is to imply the microwave is on a dedicated circuit (it’s not). I think that it is intended to convey that this outlet installed at the rear of a cabinet is for the micro and not for general use with a cord potentially draping out of an upper cabinet.
 
(C) Two to Five 15- or 20-Ampere Circuits. A maximum of five 15- or 20-ampere circuits to supply lights, receptacle outlets, and fixed appliances shall be permitted. Such recreational vehicles shall be permitted to be equipped with distribution panelboards rated 120 volts maximum or 120/240 volts maximum and listed for 30-ampere application supplied by the appropriate power-supply assemblies. Not more than two 120-volt thermostatically controlled appliances (e.g., air conditioner and water heater) shall be installed in such systems unless appliance isolation switching, energy management systems, or similar methods are used.

Charles

I am curious about how this might apply to a system that uses an inverter/charger that is set to limit shore power to 30 amps and supplies 2 panels, one inverted and the other non inverted but both controlled by the inverter, and each with 5 circuits or less.

I do not know how the inverter controls power to the 2 panels if the 2 panels try pulling more than 30 amps combined.

I'm thinking of a Victron MultiPlus that has AC in and two AC out circuits, one inverted and the other non inverted (default setting).

Bob
 
...
On a 30 amp panel, you are limited by National Electric Code Article 551-42 (C)
This is quoting from the 2011 edition but this particular section has not appreciably changed.

(C) Two to Five 15- or 20-Ampere Circuits. A maximum of five 15- or 20-ampere circuits to supply lights, receptacle outlets, and fixed appliances shall be permitted. ...

...

NEC doesn't say this for the fun of it, they specify such things as a way of providing a level of safety in the design of the system.
The intent is good, but the result is nonsense. If splitting the converter and refrigerator onto separate circuits with 10-amp and 5-amp breakers (respectively) would bump the panel over the five-breaker limit and make it non-compliant, the rule is poorly written because that change would not be any less safe... just easier to manage.
 
"Not more than two 120-volt thermostatically controlled appliances (e.g., air conditioner and water heater) shall be installed in such systems unless appliance isolation switching, energy management systems, or similar methods are used."

So, having an A/C, a hot water electric element and a convection/microwave in the trailer would require "appliance isolation switching, energy management systems, or similar methods are used."?
 
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So, having an A/C, a hot water electric element and a convection/microwave in the trailer would require "appliance isolation switching, energy management systems, or similar methods are used."?

That is true and exactly what Winnebago did on my '07 View motor home. The microwave and water heater were on the same circuit with a load shed box. Both received current (MW was powered so the digits and light, etc worked, and when it was started (or the convection portion) the load shed would interrupt the power to the water heater element (WH doesn't lose heat instantly and does have a second source of heating, LP, if you plan on running the convection portion for quite a while). This was an ideal setup and I installed the same type of setup in my Bigfoot after I discovered the water heater on a general purpose outlet circuit. Pic is the open Parallax ALS20 load shed box, with input from the breaker, and outputs to the water heater and microwave (though not convection)

Charles

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That is true and exactly what Winnebago did on my '07 View motor home.......

Does ETI (Escape) do this?

Never read any comments related to such with folks that have an A/C, electric water heater element and a convection oven. 30 amps is 30 amps.............:popcorn:
 
Thread revival.............

Circling back to the WFCO power center converter and refridge on the same breaker.

I'm on shore power in my driveway for "storage". I'd like to leave my refridge powered up, but don't necessarily want the power center converter to be charging the twin LiFo batts all the time (I have a single 190 watt solar panel as well that I need to put a breaker / switch on). Additionally, I'd also like to be able to shut off the WFCO power center converter when boondocking and running on generator power to limit the demand (Honda eu2000 running on propane for 11k air conditioner has worked fine so far)


OK to use this breaker to split up the refridge / converter? Or do I need the DNPL version for 3 times the cost as ETI used for the 15/20 AC/Water Heater breaker below ? Appears I will go over the supposed 5 breaker NEC max for the panel with this approach............

https://www.amazon.com/Corporation-...-2-15-Amp/dp/B00C5SQ5OA/ref=asc_df_B00C5SQ5OA

WFCO panel as is now.


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Circling back to the WFCO power center converter and refridge on the same breaker.

I'm on shore power in my driveway for "storage". I'd like to leave my refridge powered up, but don't necessarily want the power center converter to be charging the twin LiFo batts all the time (I have a single 190 watt solar panel as well that I need to put a breaker / switch on). Additionally, I'd also like to be able to shut off the WFCO power center converter when boondocking and running on generator power to limit the demand (Honda eu2000 running on propane for 11k air conditioner has worked fine so far)


OK to use this breaker to split up the refridge / converter? Or do I need the DNPL version for 3 times the cost as ETI used for the 15/20 AC/Water Heater breaker below ? Appears I will go over the supposed 5 breaker NEC max for the panel with this approach............

https://www.amazon.com/Corporation-...-2-15-Amp/dp/B00C5SQ5OA/ref=asc_df_B00C5SQ5OA

WFCO panel as is now.


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Quoting myself ;D

Guess I could just cut the battery switch off.........duh!
 

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