Escape 5.0 and F150 Short Bed - Can hitch be rear of axle?

[Bangnose]

Hello from Arizona. My wife and I are in the process of ordering a new Escape 5.0 fifth wheel. We'll be towing with a 2018 F150 crew cab short bed truck and will have a hitch installed by Trademasters in Chilliwack right before picking up the trailer. I'm leaning towards the Anderson hitch on rail mounts. My question is where can the ball be positioned relative to the axle? I know the base of the Anderson hitch can be mounted two ways to move the ball closer to or farther from the tailgate. Is there any reason not to move the ball towards the tailgate, even if it means being a few inches (or more) behind the axle? For me, it would help with clearance and it may make it possible to keep my folding tonneau cover. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

 

[Centex]

Your F150 with crew cab + 5ft box is on a 145" wheelbase, which is the same as my F150 extended cab + 6-1/2 ft box. Not the same truck configuration but the ball / pin-load relationship to the overall wheelbase and axles is analogous to your situation.

With my Andersen Gooseneck Mount hitch the ball centerline is 1-3/4" behind the axle centerline.

With that location CAT scales reveal my 780# pin weight (PW) is distributed as follows:
40# (5% of PW) on truck steer (front) axle
740# (95% of PW) on truck drive (rear) axle

The net effect when hitched is that the truck settles to essentially 'level' (the slight forward rake of the unladen truck is eliminated). My trailer is also 'level' and the rig handles like a dream.

Personally, from a rig-handling standpoint, I would not want any less pin weight transferred to the front axle (which would be the effect if the ball were farther behind the truck's rear axle). YMMV.

I suggest that the Andersen Base orientation, and resultant ball location / clearances, frequently involve compromise / trade-offs. Often your best configuration is determined by careful experimentation, actually test-driving each of the orientations with your rig. Measuring wheel 'sag' before / after hitching can give a very good indication of relative weight-distribution on the truck axles if a CAT Scale isn't handy.

All just for your consideration, congrats on your new trailer, Have Fun!

 

[GinoandLinda]

Hello from Arizona. My wife and I are in the process of ordering a new Escape 5.0 fifth wheel. We'll be towing with a 2018 F150 crew cab short bed truck and will have a hitch installed by Trademasters in Chilliwack right before picking up the trailer. I'm leaning towards the Anderson hitch on rail mounts.

Do you know if Trademasters is going to use a Ford F150 specific mounting kit or the universal kit that is also offered. If it is an F150 specific kit, there will only be one way the rails can be mounted. As per Andersen, the hitch orientation will be with the ball towards the tailgate. The hitch coupler mounted to the pin box will also be with the cup towards the trailer as recommended by ETI.

 

[Bangnose]

Your F150 with crew cab + 5ft box is on a 145" wheelbase, which is the same as my F150 extended cab + 6-1/2 ft box. Not the same truck configuration but the ball / pin-load relationship to the overall wheelbase and axles is analogous to your situation.

With my Andersen Gooseneck Mount hitch the ball centerline is 1-3/4" behind the axle centerline.

With that location CAT scales reveal my 780# pin weight (PW) is distributed as follows:
40# (5% of PW) on truck steer (front) axle
740# (95% of PW) on truck drive (rear) axle

The net effect when hitched is that the truck settles to essentially 'level' (the slight forward rake of the unladen truck is eliminated). My trailer is also 'level' and the rig handles like a dream.

Personally, from a rig-handling standpoint, I would not want any less pin weight transferred to the front axle (which would be the effect if the ball were farther behind the truck's rear axle). YMMV.

I suggest that the Andersen Base orientation, and resultant ball location / clearances, frequently involve compromise / trade-offs. Often your best configuration is determined by careful experimentation, actually test-driving each of the orientations with your rig. Measuring wheel 'sag' before / after hitching can give a very good indication of relative weight-distribution on the truck axles if a CAT Scale isn't handy.

All just for your consideration, congrats on your new trailer, Have Fun!

Thanks for all the information, although I'm a bit confused how any weight could be added to the front axle if the hitch center is behind the axle. Regardless, I'll be much better off than I am today with my travel trailer, even with a weight distributing hitch.

 

[Bangnose]

Do you know if Trademasters is going to use a Ford F150 specific mounting kit or the universal kit that is also offered. If it is an F150 specific kit, there will only be one way the rails can be mounted. As per Andersen, the hitch orientation will be with the ball towards the tailgate. The hitch coupler mounted to the pin box will also be with the cup towards the trailer as recommended by ETI.

I don't know yet what rails they plan to use. They said to call back within one month of my delivery date which isn't until early June. I'm hoping this forum can help give me information so I can have an informed discussion with them. So far, they have told me the Anderson base can be mounted either way. They also told me the hitch coupler would be mounted with the cup away from the trailer. They say they do a lot of work for Escape customers, but I'll be sure to ask when I get the trailer.

 

[Centex]

although I'm a bit confused how any weight could be added to the front axle if the hitch center is behind the axle.

I'm not gonna sprain my brain trying to work out the geometry / force vectors, but I think it's a matter of how the weight is transferred to the bed through the asymmetrical base, the majority of that 'base footprint' being forward of the axle in my case.

So far, they have told me the Anderson base can be mounted either way..

Yes, see Section 2: Installing the Base Unit on page 4 of 12 inf the attached instructions for the steel rail-mounted Andersen hitch (distinctly different from the aluminum GN mounted hitch which Andersen stipulates must be oriented with the ball to the rear).

Having said that, I don't see how the forward orientation of the base would be of benefit to you if trying to 'clear' a folding bed-cover, but may be that's a trade-off to ensure best load-distribution in the truck, at least with the rails they choose to install (?).

Before traveling to get this done, I know I'd ask them point blank .... "When installed with the base oriented forward as you suggest, what is the distance from the CL of the Andersen Ball to the inside face of the truck's closed tailgate?". That bit of information, along with the Andersen dimensions (also attached) will tell you everything you could possibly want to know about where they mount the rails and allow you to determine all of the various clearances you will achieve with your truck (for any base and coupler orientation).

Note that when the coupler block is oriented to the front, the cup CL is 4" forward of the trailer kingpin CL, when oriented to the rear it is 4" behind the trailer kingpin CL, and the distance from the trailer kingpin CL to the back-edge of the pinbox is 32" (that 32" dimension from ETI's 5.0 Trailer Towing Guidelines Document).

They also told me the hitch coupler would be mounted with the cup away from the trailer.

If that means the coupler block oriented forward of the kingpin, that's interesting indeed. That would make the ball CL to back-of-pinbox dimension (32" + 4") = 36". The distance from the ball CL to the inside of my F150 bed side-rails is only 31-1/2", inviting conflict between the bed side-rails and the pinbox in certain (albeit uncommon) situations that might be encountered.

With the coupler oriented to the rear of the kingpin that dimension is (32" - 4") = 28", eliminating any possibility of pinbox-to-bed side-rail conflict, no matter how contorted your rig might be.

 

[iamunique127]

We had given all the dimensions of our 5.5' box Tundra to ETI when we ordered our 5.0TA and they assured us it was compatible with our new trailer. They've since discontinued that practice but history and experience shows your short box truck will tow a 5.0TA just fine.

Trademasters has been installing hitches for ETI-purchased trailers for many years and know what they are doing. In 2015 they installed the universal rails and traditional fifth wheel hitch in our Tundra in the hours prior to our orientation and everything worked perfectly. We have since switched to an Anderson hitch and, as intended, it was a straight swap of one hitch to the other on the rails.

I set the Anderson hitch oriented to the rear and the ball receiver to the rear as described in the installation instructions that came with the hitch. All clearances remain perfect, just as they did with the original Reece fifth wheel hitch.

I may be wrong but I believe ETI will install the ball receiver box on the trailer for you and will ensure all is set up properly for towing before you leave the facility. At least they did that for us back in 2015.

 

[GinoandLinda]

I may be wrong but I believe ETI will install the ball receiver box on the trailer for you and will ensure all is set up properly for towing before you leave the facility.

That is what they did for us in 2023. I had wrestled with the ball cup being forward facing or back facing. The gentleman who installed it told me they install off of them, regardless of whether rails or turnover ball mounting is used, with the cup facing backwards as shown in iamunique127's photo.

 

[nepaweb]

Hello from Arizona. My wife and I are in the process of ordering a new Escape 5.0 fifth wheel. We'll be towing with a 2018 F150 crew cab short bed truck and will have a hitch installed by Trademasters in Chilliwack right before picking up the trailer. I'm leaning towards the Anderson hitch on rail mounts. My question is where can the ball be positioned relative to the axle? I know the base of the Anderson hitch can be mounted two ways to move the ball closer to or farther from the tailgate. Is there any reason not to move the ball towards the tailgate, even if it means being a few inches (or more) behind the axle? For me, it would help with clearance and it may make it possible to keep my folding tonneau cover. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

I also pull my Escape 5.0 with a 2018 F150 crew cab short bed and use the Andersen rail mount hitch. Trade masters was not an option for me at the time so I ended up installing the rail kit myself at home. I decided to install the rails with a few inches of offset toward the tailgate thinking this would give me a better turning radius with the trailer on the short bed truck. In hindsight the extra few degrees of turning has not really been needed. The main advantages have been having a little extra room between the hitch and folded tonneau cover and being able to hitch to the trailer with the tailgate down.

Even with the ball a little behind the rear axle the vehicle levels out nicely when hitched. My pin weight is 775#. Measuring the wheel well height at the axles, my truck settles 1.5 inches at the rear axle and a quarter inch at the front axle.

I have towed with both the Andersen and a traditional (Demco) 5th wheel hitch. One thing to think about regarding the folding tonneau cover is that with the Andersen the trailer must be raised and then lowered onto the ball from above. With the traditional hitch the trailer does not have to be higher than the hitch. Just back in until the kingpin engages the hitch and the jaws lock into place. Even if the cover overhangs the hitch by a couple of inches the pinbox should tuck under the cover nicely while hooking up.

Congratulations on your new Escape.

 

[Bangnose]

Thanks everyone for your replies and input. I wondered about the orientation of the hitch block, and I think maybe I just wasn't understanding on the phone. I agree facing it forward creates a conflict with the sides of the bed rails so I think it really needs to face the trailer. As said above, ETI is going to install the hitch block for a charge of $55, so I'll rely on their advice. For the tonneau cover, I'll just have to see where the rails can be mounted to hopefully give me enough clearance. Cheers.

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

if your tug has leaf springs, I highly recommend Firestone Ride-Rite airbags on the rear axles. I had them on my Tacoma, and just set them up to inflate with a tire compressor or bike pump, but you can go fancy and have an onboard inflator setup. do isolate the left and right so they are separately inflated, this eliminates any sway.

 

[Bangnose]

if your tug has leaf springs, I highly recommend Firestone Ride-Rite airbags on the rear axles. I had them on my Tacoma, and just set them up to inflate with a tire compressor or bike pump, but you can go fancy and have an onboard inflator setup. do isolate the left and right so they are separately inflated, this eliminates any sway.

In fact, a pair of Air Lift Load lifter 5000 bags are already installed with separate inflation. I have them for my travel trailer and expect they will come in handy for the Escape fifth wheel even though it will be lighter than the travel trailer. Thanks.

 

[Centex]

In fact, a pair of Air Lift Load lifter 5000 bags are already installed with separate inflation. I have them for my travel trailer and expect they will come in handy for the Escape fifth wheel even though it will be lighter than the travel trailer.

I had that exact Air Lift system installed on my 2005 F150 which was used for towing gooseneck ag-trailers with the B&W Turnoverball for many years before I bought my 5.0 (and added the Andersen GN hitch).

The Air Lift 5000 is one of the very few (perhaps the only?) bag systems that's compatible for mounting along with the B&W Turnoverball on an F150 (no hardware conflict, both items bolt-on with no problem). You might want to verify that's true with a rail-mount system.

Though not strictly necessary, it was nice for fine-tuning trailer-level with the lighter 5.0.

 

[Bangnose]

I've wondered if there is going to be a conflict between my airbags and a rail mounting kit. That's one of my questions when the time comes to discuss details with Trademasters.

 

[Centex]

Just FYI, long ago it was correspondence with etrailer.com technical support which steered me to the Air Lift 5000 compatibility / no-conflict with the Turnoverball. They might be a resource for identifying specific 'no-drill' industry-standard rail kit(s) compatible with your bags.

I know a lot of folks have reported great service from Trademasters, but I'd want to know exactly what the plan is and components being installed, and have confidence in that plan before heading to pick up a trailer at the factory. No drilling / welding of my truck frame is one of my criteria.

YMMV.

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

welding, done properly, is just fine. I just watched a vid of a guy(*) slicing a late model Jeep Wrangler frame in half and welding it back up to have the wheelbase to fit under a Jeepster Commando body, he is building this up to be a daily driver for his wife.

* -

 

[Centex]

welding, done properly, is just fine.

True enough, and same for drilling, but they're not procedures I want in conjunction with a hitch installation on my vehicle when there are almost always methods to avoid them.

As I said, "YMMV".

 

[GinoandLinda]

welding, done properly, is just fine.

I usually agree with you, John in Santa Cruz, but not on this one. I would never weld to a frame, or drill into a frame to accommodate a hitch. There's a reason most shops would not do that as I found out trying to get a fifth wheel hitch installed on our Frontier.

 

[Bangnose]

I am in touch with Trademasters and will be sure to understand their plan well before I drive from Arizona all the way to Canada. And that plan will definitely not involve welding.

 

[iamunique127]

Altho my Tundra, with leaf springs, tows the 5.0TA fine it does sag a bit in the back with the weight of the trailer. Air Lift air bags help fine tune the trailer level.