Escape wannabe but undecided re 19 vs 21

[Iowa Dave]

Nap time

Exactly like that. My back would be killing me after that session, but it would be worth it.
Dave

 

[Bear101]

Excellent counter points Jim.
I will share these with Becky in the morning. I agree they both seem to be great trailers. I think the rear dinette will be as important to us as the bed. But perhaps in the morning I will find out differently : )

 

[Dave Walter]

Having owned a 19 for over 6 years, I must emphatically disagree with your observations on it.

My thoughts on your take on the 19

• I do not think a queen bed is too big.
• It was very easy to make the bed. Fold the sheets into place, and it was done.
• Climbing over your partner is not the best of situations, but necessary to get that big of bed in that size of trailer. Plus, it is not that big of deal at all. We ended up timing our mid night trips so we went at the same time. Easy peasy.
• Surrounded by 3 cold walls? We never found the walls cold though never slept right against them, and I would venture to bet we slept in many, many more colder nights than you experienced. Plus, do not all these trailer have 4 (cold) walls surrounding you?
• The bed is elevated due to the floor being elevated under it, the same issue with the dinette seats in the current 5.0 and 21 being too high. I don't think I have sat on a bed to put socks on in my life, I guess I just learned others do. Definitely not an issue for us. Besides, I have sat on the edge of the bed talking to my wife working at the galley lots of times, and don't remember it being that bad.
• How is there more storage under the bed in a 21, with it being a lot smaller? There was tons of room under the 19 bed, very useful.
• Though the aisle is 4" narrower, there is plenty of room for two to pass each other there, we did it all the time.
• If you had a mid-sized or larger dog sharing your bed, for us the smaller bed in the 21 would not work. Heck, our dog is only in our bed for maybe 30 minutes most nights, and even with a queen the space seems to tighten up quite a bit.

And lastly, "Go big or stay home". Yeah, having to sit on my fingers and think a bit, as my first response to that might not be appropriate here. Not that there is anything at all wrong with bigger if it works for folks, but to stay if you are thinking smaller (and many, many folks would not consider a 19 small by any means), that you should just stay home, is very misguided advise. At least in my opinion. Other opinions may vary.

The 21 and 19 are both fantastic trailers in their own right. Even though I was never fond of the bed/bath layout in the 21, I still think it is a model that would work great for many, as it has proven to do. Just as I think there are a lot of people for whom a 19 works better.

Just one mans opinions and observations, obviously others see it differently.

I see things almost exactly as you do Jim B, however, you expressed yourself in a much nicer manner than I would likely have done. There are many of us out there who actually prefer the size, layout, and features of the 19' over the 21'. For me personally, the layout of the 21' is just not appealing and could never be seriously considered if I was ever looking for a change from the 19'. My wife feels the same way.

 

[Loren & Cathy]

For some folks, the right trailer is dragging around 40 plus feet and 15,000 pounds. Big or small, it's what works for you. Loren

 

[Jim Bennett]

For some folks, the right trailer is dragging around 40 plus feet and 15,000 pounds. Big or small, it's what works for you. Loren

Prexactly!

 

[Brian B-P]

So as long as the GVWR of the 21 stays at 4500 lbs our TV should be appropriate at least for the relatively flat Southern Ontario trips we would do the first year, then who knows, maybe a new TV is next.

Or, more importantly, as long as the weight of the 21 as equipped stays the same... GVWR is just a maximum allowed weight, and they are rarely loaded up that much. The GVWR could be changed due to something like a suspension change, but as long as the actual weight of the trailer stays the same the change in GVWR of the trailer wouldn't matter to the tow vehicle.

 

[Brian B-P]

19's are awesome but consider the bunches of 19'ers going to 21's (myself included). Never heard of someone going the other way.

I think changing down in size is relatively uncommon compared to changing up, in any brand or type. When people do change down - such as after the kids move away - the change is likely to be dramatic, rather than one increment of size within the same model range.

When someone gets a new tow vehicle with more capacity, they may take the opportunity to move up in size. That's very different from replacing tugs to enable one step increase in trailer size, so the size difference isn't trivial.

 

[Marry-ESC]

why is it easy for an Escape owner to upsize? The Escape trailers are known to hold their value.

 

[gbaglo]

why is it easy for an Escape owner to upsize? The Escape trailers are known to hold their value.

I likely would have moved up ( in length ) to a 19' but that would also require a new tow vehicle.
Would love the extra aisle width and the four-person dinette, but I already have a 17' and a low-mileage tow vehicle, and it's paid for, and I'm retired.

 

[Karen H.]

why is it easy for an Escape owner to upsize?

Not everyone on this forum thinks that bigger is better; some might even think that the more "stuff," the more that can (and will) go wrong. If ETI had stopped producing the 15 before I had a chance to get mine, I would probably be Escape-less.

And I'm not staying home.

Each model has its pros and cons. The choice depends on individual camping styles and needs.

 

[cpaharley2008]

I notice that the 19' supporters have not owned a 21, nor were they even in production when their 19 units were purchased, so there was no choice to be made back then. Having owned and used both these units gives an advantage in making observations. In addition Marry hit the nail on the head, Escapes value retention enables an easy transition to a newer model, regardless of size or age. The fact I'm getting a 5th wheel will have certain benefits not available in either the 19 nor 21' models. The Go big comment is a sports metaphor and is no way meant to be disparaging.
As Joe Friday says, just the facts, Ma'am

 

[casejh]

Would those of you who have pulled both a 19 and a 21 please comment on the difference in how the two trailers tow? How much difference did you notice in starting, stopping, handling, maneuverability, mileage, etc? My tow vehicle will be a Chevy 4WD crew cab half-ton short box with 5.3L and 3.08 rear end, towing package and integrated brake controller, rated to pull 6200 lbs. Also, would I need more than the basic receiver hitch to pull either one?

 

[cpaharley2008]

I noticed no difference between towing the two. My 21' weighed 3800# over axles and 500# at tongue, the 19 was 425# at the tongue. The 21' is about 6" wider but that did not seem to make any noticeable impact.

 

[cpaharley2008]

Your truck will be fine, other than gas mileage dropping, check your manual for type of receiver and capacity, I believe mine was 500# t/w without w/d set up.

 

[azjack]

19 vs 21

My experience of towing the 19 and then a 21 behind the same vehicle, a Jeep GC with the Hemi V8 is the same as Jim. With the 21 I added clip on mirrors and lost 1 to 2 mpg. Of course we added a larger aisle, bigger bath and don't bother each other if a late night has a call. We use the andersen WDH. We just left Quartzite Sunday and will be in Palm Springs until Monday. There is a vintage trailer display/rally here on Sunday and we enjoy the trailers we used to have when they weren't vintage. On Monday time to head for Tucson so Nancy can see how many of her plants are dead.
Jack and Nancy

 

[Ruthe]

We downsized from a 31' Airstream to the 19' and while the counter space and extra drawers and cupboards and larger bathroom are appealing, they weren't as important as the queen bed. The size of the bed was non-negotiable for us, but for shorter (and narrower) people, that might not matter.

We put our shoes on at the dinette with no problem, and sometimes we use the bed, but frankly I generally prefer the shoes as far from the bed as possible and the location of the bed in the 21 was a big negative for me. I knew that with us (and this would not be the case with more organized and tidy people) our outergarments and fanny packs, etc., would end up on the bed.

I would guess that the bed is easier to make in the 21, although there are ways around that. And climbing over one's mate is not for everyone. Last summer at the beginning of our trip I had bursitis in my leg and that made it a little difficult, but by the end of the trip it was no longer an issue. If climbing is an issue, then a 19 is not for you.

We've backed the 19 into spots where a 21 would not have fit. Parking lots and gas stations are so easily maneuverable that I've been astonished. In some of those situations two extra feet could make a big difference.

The owner who showed us his 19 demonstrated how easy it would be to pass in the hallway and that has never been an issue. And I've written before how much I like the bed with the three windows surrounding it. Cold (and we camped in Banff and Yoho when it was pretty cold) has not been an issue. One of us reaches out a hand and the furnace is on in the morning.

If we were ever to upsize it would be because we were spending more time inside and needed easy chairs (not presently an Escape option). For now and the forseeable future, the standard table with the standard pedestal and standard floor underneath works fine. Terry (who has some arthritis and sometimes has trouble getting comfortable) likes the table and bench seats for reading, computing, eating, etc. I use both the table and the bed for those things.

I don't like the layout of the 21, but that's just me. Obviously others like it just fine.

I also don't think we would tow a 21 with our Highlander, and we really like our Highlander. We are comfortable in our vehicle while towing and that is huge for us.

In the end I think it is a person's size, weight, physical condition and personal priorities that will determine the right trailer.

 

[kstock11]

Lot's of interesting comments here. It's been said that no one here downsized, but it seems that quite a few who moved to an Escape from another brand, had bigger before their Escape. I was a tent camper for many years before our 19 Escape. To my wife and I, the 19 has all the room that we need. (or more than enough) We don't have the storage box and find we don't come close to using all the storage that we have. It's all about what you feel you need.

 

[Greggo]

There's plenty of upsizing and downsizing. The good news is in this case, there really isn't a bad option. 19's cover the bases very well, 21's maybe a bit better if extra space is your thing but either way, the buyer comes out a winner.

Unlike most (if not all) SOB's, we don't take a huge depreciation hit if we change from one to the other. Advice to the OP: jump in to the one that seems to come closest to your needs.

G

 

[Patandlinda]

I notice that the 19' supporters have not owned a 21, nor were they even in production when their 19 units were purchased, so there was no choice to be made back then. Having owned and used both these units gives an advantage in making observations. In addition Marry hit the nail on the head, Escapes value retention enables an easy transition to a newer model, regardless of size or age. The fact I'm getting a 5th wheel will have certain benefits not available in either the 19 nor 21' models. The Go big comment is a sports metaphor and is no way meant to be disparaging.
As Joe Friday says, just the facts, Ma'am

Jim untrue we could of had a 21 . Was not interested . We could of had a 17 or 15 as well . Chose the 19 and are very happy with it . Still like campers and maybe a small class C . Those would more likely be our future again if we change . Pat

 

[Patandlinda]

We downsized from a 31' Airstream to the 19' and while the counter space and extra drawers and cupboards and larger bathroom are appealing, they weren't as important as the queen bed. The size of the bed was non-negotiable for us, but for shorter (and narrower) people, that might not matter.

We put our shoes on at the dinette with no problem, and sometimes we use the bed, but frankly I generally prefer the shoes as far from the bed as possible and the location of the bed in the 21 was a big negative for me. I knew that with us (and this would not be the case with more organized and tidy people) our outergarments and fanny packs, etc., would end up on the bed.

I would guess that the bed is easier to make in the 21, although there are ways around that. And climbing over one's mate is not for everyone. Last summer at the beginning of our trip I had bursitis in my leg and that made it a little difficult, but by the end of the trip it was no longer an issue. If climbing is an issue, then a 19 is not for you.

We've backed the 19 into spots where a 21 would not have fit. Parking lots and gas stations are so easily maneuverable that I've been astonished. In some of those situations two extra feet could make a big difference.

The owner who showed us his 19 demonstrated how easy it would be to pass in the hallway and that has never been an issue. And I've written before how much I like the bed with the three windows surrounding it. Cold (and we camped in Banff and Yoho when it was pretty cold) has not been an issue. One of us reaches out a hand and the furnace is on in the morning.

If we were ever to upsize it would be because we were spending more time inside and needed easy chairs (not presently an Escape option). For now and the forseeable future, the standard table with the standard pedestal and standard floor underneath works fine. Terry (who has some arthritis and sometimes has trouble getting comfortable) likes the table and bench seats for reading, computing, eating, etc. I use both the table and the bed for those things.

I don't like the layout of the 21, but that's just me. Obviously others like it just fine.

I also don't think we would tow a 21 with our Highlander, and we really like our Highlander. We are comfortable in our vehicle while towing and that is huge for us.

In the end I think it is a person's size, weight, physical condition and personal priorities that will determine the right trailer.

Except for the pedestal table which we changed for good reason's everything Ruthe has said we would totally agree with . The layout and bed very important for Ruthe reasonings . The length of the trailer also is just right . Any longer where we are parked at home would be a problem . 19 is the perfect trailer for us . No regrets . Pat