F150 DC to DC converter. is it even worth it?

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

I am installing lithium battery in my 21c. I am debating whether to add the Victron DC -DC Charger to get power from the truck. I am wondering how much charging amps people are getting out of the F150. my truck is a 2022. I assuming both the trailer and truck wiring will produce voltage drop. trailer only has a 170-watt panel.
other option is just to disconnect the charge line in the 7-pin junction box and let solar do its job.

 

[Centex]

other option is just to disconnect the charge line in the 7-pin junction box and let solar do its job.

That's an easy and easily reversed experiment, perhaps worth trying for a while to see if you even need to consider charging from your truck with the new lithium battery. Much of the answer will be a function of your particular camping habits / battery use.

With some data from that experiment, coupled with data you requested from other F150 folks, you may find it appropriate to consider a bit of a solar upgrade rather than DC>DC charging from your truck.

I am wondering how much charging amps people are getting out of the F150.

One suggestion - it may be more useful to ask folks the Watts they get from their DC>DC charger setups (the useful yield from their DC>DC charger) considering that both amps and volts are variables in that.

Just for your consideration, Have Fun!

 

[Jeremy Kessenich]

I have a 2022 F-150 and ordered my trailer with the ETI supplied Victron TR Smart DC-DC charger. It didn't play well with the TV as it more often than not thought the engine had shut off. Yes it had a 2 minute delay after the truck started before it would turn on but I'm not talking about that. When it would begin charging it would seemingly just randomly shut off. No meaningful charging would occur. It also produces a lot of heat. I switched to the Victron Orion XS and have much better outcomes. I have not changed the OE wiring in the truck to make us of the 50 Amps the Orion can handle. The original DC-DC converter is not configurable but the Orion is. The F-150 has a 30 amp fuse on the charging wire but the wire if I remember correctly is only 12 gauge which can't handle 30 amps so I've limited the Orion to 15 amps. Not much but better than the OE Victron was able to do but because it plays well with the truck it yields much more. I know folks that have installed a heavy gauge dedicated charging wire from the truck battery to the Orion to make use of the 50 amps it can handle. I haven't gone that route, yet. I hope this helps.

 

[SRS]

I have a 2021 F150. My 2022 Escape 17A came with the lithium package and included an Orion 12 | 12 -18. I have a 200ah battery bank and a 190 watts of solar. Since I choose to run my frig on 12 volt when towing, I found that charger didn't play well with Fords smart alternator and I didn't get much charging, a problem mostly on overcast days.

A few months back I installed the Orion XS and the difference is significant. I didn't change any of the OEM wiring. I can't check my XS because I removed the batteries but I believe I set the amps to 18 or 20. I don't track the amps or watts but what I've observed while driving is a steady output of from 13.1 - 14.1 volts. How your trailer is configured will have a bearing on your needs. If you have a compressor frig and a larger battery bank, you might do just fine without a DC-DC charger.

 

[Centex]

.... so I've limited the Orion to 15 amps

With your Orion XS that's a limit you set for the maximum DC>DC charger (input) load from the truck, not the maximum charger output amps to the trailer battery, is that correct?

 

[MD-Escape]

With your Orion XS that's a limit you set for the maximum DC>DC charger (input) load from the truck, not the maximum charger output amps to the trailer battery, is that correct?

On the XS you can set either/both the input and output maximum current independently. Super handy to manage tow vehicle alternator load as well as adjusting for any wire sizes that can’t handle a full 50a load. The later was my case when upgrading from an older lower power dc/dc.

 

[Jeremy Kessenich]

Hello Alan, yes I've limited the input from the truck, but you can set both input and output independently if I remember correctly. Being limited in my knowledge base I set them the same. I'm not sure why you would have them set differently, perhaps someone else can chime in on why you might want them set differently. I don't think the OE wiring in the trailer is much more robust than what's in the truck so again I don't know if you could have the input limited to 15 amps but the output higher, it would seem that's possible as you can configure it that way and not to overstate it, my knowledge doesn't extend that far.

 

[Centex]

Being limited in my knowledge base I set them the same. I'm not sure why you would have them set differently, perhaps someone else can chime in on why you might want them set differently.

Understanding that the Orion XS allows setting input / output amp limits independently, the reason is ....

In certain conditions (volts, amps, battery state) the DC>DC charger is capable of higher-amp output than input.

IF your trailer-side wiring has higher ampacity than the vehicle-side wiring (e.g. 10AWG vs 12AWG) then you'll likely benefit from a higher amp limit on the output side.

All other things being equal, a copper 10AWG wire is safely rated ~30~50% higher ampacity than a 12AWG wire (a meaningful difference).

In my 2021 5.0 as delivered by ETI, the charging wire from the junction box to the battery was 10AWG. YMMV.

 

[Jeremy Kessenich]

Thank you, is there an advantage to say having input be 30 amps and output 15 amps assuming that's what wiring allows for? In other words I can wrap my head around limiting what the settings are because of wiring sizes, but the example above challenges me. Thanks in advance for helping me out.

 

[Centex]

is there an advantage to say having input be 30 amps and output 15 amps assuming that's what wiring allows for?

The only scenario for that I can envision is if your battery has a lower recommended maximum charging amps (not likely with most RV situations, but maybe other Orion XS applications have relatively low-volt / high-amp inputs, so the capability is provided).

Remember, the Orion XS has a huge range of possible applications other than RV's .... marine / sailboats, aux power units, etc, etc., and the configuration flexibility that unit provides is wonderful for meeting those varied needs.

 

[vermilye]

For what it is worth, with my 2018 F150 the 25 amp trailer charge fuse opened a couple of times when I was using a Victron 12/12-18 (I have 3 100 amp hr lithium batteries). I switched to an old 9 amp single voltage version that works. Since it is always on at full set voltage (14.6V) I added a switch to the input so I can turn it off if the batteries are already full. If I was going to add one now I'd use a Orion XS which allows you to set the current to within the limits of the tow vehicle and still have the standard battery charging stages.

 

[Ron in BC]

From some of the comments I can see that I wasn't the only one where adding a DC-DC charger didn't work out all that well. I installed heavy cables to the rear of my F150 and heavy cables through the trailer to the charger. Still didn't work all that well, I gave up on it and removed it.

Now the truck does some charging, probably not optimal, but my Victron solar charger's a champ and does a great job of topping up.

Ron

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

I never got my Orion 12/18 working on my E21 towed by an F250 diesel longbed. too much voltage drop, even with a upgrade of the wire in the trailer (I didn't mess with the truck wiring.

As I also installed a 360W solar panel (replacing the original 160W panel) at the same time as the lithium batteries and stuff, I found I didn't need tow vehicle charging at all. your mileage may vary.

 

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

I never got my Orion 12/18 working on my E21 towed by an F250 diesel longbed. too much voltage drop, even with a upgrade of the wire in the trailer (I didn't mess with the truck wiring.

As I also installed a 360W solar panel (replacing the original 160W panel) at the same time as the lithium batteries and stuff, I found I didn't need tow vehicle charging at all. your mileage may vary.

John when you installed the 360-watt panel did you mount in a different location or where you able to use the existing brackets?

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

John when you installed the 360-watt panel did you mount in a different location or where you able to use the existing brackets?

its mounted on riser/extenders that are on the original brackets.

the silver is the original bracket, the black powder coated tube is the riser/extender.

this also required removing the original chimney vent from the 3-way fridge, since my new fridge is DC, and has its vents on the inside, that chimney did nothing.

 

[BritCanuck]

I've just completed my lithium upgrade and considered putting in the DC/DC convertor. But my research seemed to indicate it probably wouldn't be worth It with the installed cabling. Too much voltage drop without major cable upgrades. I figure it's easier just to disconnect the 12V cable. I'm not that desperate for amps!

 

[CE Vogel]

Several newer tow vehicles have 'smart' alternators. They incorporate a device similar to a State of Charge monitor on the tow vehicle battery(s). When the tow vehicle battery is charged, the smart alternator drops to a lower voltage to save fuel and avoid overcharging the tow vehicle battery. It ignores the trailer battery. Unfortunately, the low voltage combined with wiring voltage drop, can go below the minimum required DC - DC converter input voltage to operate. I suspect the Orion XC converter accepts lower input voltages than the Orion 12/18, allowing it to work better with smart alternators.

 

[C&G in FL]

It may seem strange, but my ETI installed 160 watt solar panel keeps my 2 100 AH lithiums fully charged while traveling in decent sunlight with my 12v compressor refrigerator running. I base my assessment on the SOC provided by the Victron Smart Shunt. After towing 6 hours on a sunny day, I will arrive at my destination with 100% SOC. If it’s cloudy with partial sun, the SOC might be 96% to 97%. However, living in the south I hardly ever camp without shore power for running the air conditioner. Shore power quickly restores the batteries to 100%. Testing inside my storage building indicated that the refrigerator will run for 3+ days on battery power alone. As a result, and with input from another forum member, I decided not to consider DC to DC charging. YMMV.

 

[BobG-ESC]

I've just completed my lithium upgrade and considered putting in the DC/DC convertor. But my research seemed to indicate it probably wouldn't be worth It with the installed cabling. Too much voltage drop without major cable upgrades. I figure it's easier just to disconnect the 12V cable. I'm not that desperate for amps!

I similarly decided to disconnect the 12V charge cable. I have enough solar to get by. The consequences of different voltage from the DC-DC to the house batteries and the solar voltage to the batteries seemed beyond my ability to understand. I wondered if different voltages connection to the battery in parallel might not work smoothly. Voltage drop from the DC - DC would vary depending on the current from the DC-DC and wire size. It certainly wouldn't be in sync with the solar charge controller. I am probably way out on a tangent that doesn't have anything to do with how the system would work with a DC-DC in line, but I didn't want to deal with it.

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

Several newer tow vehicles have 'smart' alternators. They incorporate a device similar to a State of Charge monitor on the tow vehicle battery(s). When the tow vehicle battery is charged, the smart alternator drops to a lower voltage to save fuel and avoid overcharging the tow vehicle battery. It ignores the trailer battery. Unfortunately, the low voltage combined with wiring voltage drop, can go below the minimum required DC - DC converter input voltage to operate. I suspect the Orion XC converter accepts lower input voltages than the Orion 12/18, allowing it to work better with smart alternators.

FWIW, my F250 didn't have a smart alternator, it was a 2002. My Expedition does, but in 'tow' mode, it disables it and outputs a steady 14V