Flipped escape

[JohnK-ESC]

Yes one can’t say enough about the value of well investigated accidents. It’s free education about real world experience at the unfortunate expense of others. My career was in professional aviation where in addition to my flight duties I was a safety officer charged with promoting operational safety. Reading and understanding NTSB generated accident reports was an invaluable part of my safety promotion structure. The big challenge is learning and not repeating the mistakes of others. Accidents are still occurring on land, sea and in the air that could have been avoided by contentiously not repeating the mistakes of others.

John

 

[Centex]

...
Over the years, I've lost count of the number of occurrences I've witnessed involving tow vehicles/trailers taking unnecessary risk on the highway.

I firmly believe that drivers should require a special towing endorsement on their license before being permitted to tow anything greater than a couple thousand pounds. There should be mandatory training and a road test which covers topics like vehicle capacity/trailer weight, hitching process, basic trailer inspections, impact on vehicle handling, basic maneuvering techniques, emergency procedures, etc.

I know such qualification training won't eliminate all issues, but it would certainly be a step in the right direction.

One might wonder the stats for accidents while towing vs not-towing on a vehicle-miles basis?

Not arguing at all the benefit of better driver education, but of course there's no chance that training, testing, and license endorsement requirements of the sort you suggest will ever be implemented in Canada or the US - too much push-back from the powerful RV manufacturer and dealer association lobbies.

IMO / YMMV.

Wishing safe travels for everyone, y'all be careful out there!

 

[GinoandLinda]

Not arguing at all the benefit of better driver education, but of course there's no chance that training, testing, and license endorsement requirements of the sort you suggest will ever be implemented in Canada or the US - too much push-back from the powerful RV manufacturer and dealer association lobbies.

Agreed. Nothing will cause a large industry like the RV sector to bristle than to require additional training. That would imply their products are dangerous and we certainly don't want that.

Maybe someone can correct me, but as far as I know, Class A driver are simply handed keys and told to have a nice day as they drive off in something near the size of a semi or at least a large motor coach.

 

[Selkirk]

Agreed. Nothing will cause a large industry like the RV sector to bristle than to require additional training. That would imply their products are dangerous and we certainly don't want that.

I agree that the chances of a towing endorsement requirement ever being implemented are near-zero. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be required.

I don't think towing is necessarily dangerous, provided that drivers are aware of the additional factors/risks associated with towing and can demonstrate that they possess the skills necessary to effectively manage that risk while out on public roads. No different than motorcycles...and they require specific training in order to become licensed to operate one (at least in my province) .

I can only speak for myself, as someone who is very new to towing. There seems be a robust body of knowledge required to safely tow even my comparatively small trailer. Many possess a sufficient sense of self preservation and personal responsibility to seek out that knowledge voluntarily. However, I also know there are many out there who do not...and will simply wing it.

 

[Iowa Dave]

Training

More regulations whether honestly needed or not always turn political. In Iowa one needs an endorsement to drive a motorcycle. I know there was test when I got mine and later you actually had to navigate a course with a motorcycle to get the endorsement. The irony is that Iowa is one of three states where helmets are not required. There’s a divisive issue if there ever was one.

We had numerous certifications when I worked in government with most requiring continuing education credits. In our situation the certifications were tied to pay levels. That was a motivator to a significant part of the workforce and kept our “wainting
for an opening” well stocked with applicants. As a superintendent I was not required and sometimes even allowed to actually go out and do the work that a certification allowed but I got them anyway. I believed it showed empathy, leadership, and in many cases drove good workers to be even better. I was a proponent of training, review, safety and innovation.

Now I am encouraging grandkids to learn, perform, investigate and think. Poor little guys and girls. My six year grandson old turned 7 today. Asked how his
Cub Scout hike was a couple weeks ago He said it wasn’t much fun. “We had to stay on the trails”! And followed that when hunting morel mushrooms last week in the overgrown woods with “Trails are for suckers”. Nut didn’t roll too far on that one.
Iowa Dave

 

[7Gentex]

...
Maybe someone can correct me, but as far as I know, Class A driver are simply handed keys and told to have a nice day as they drive off in something near the size of a semi or at least a large motor coach.

Many/most states have GVWR limitations attached to DL classes, with some exemptions.

In Texas, any single vehicle >#26k requires a Class B or A.

Also, many folks confuse a CDL with DL classes. Different animals.

I have a Class B non CDL, good for a tow vehicle >#26k and can tow a vehicle/trailer <#10k.(or a farm trailer<#20k)

 

[Happycamper me]

Hello everyone. I just went on the forum and saw this post. Thats me. My trailer and Jeep were written off sadly enough but my other half and I and 2 wee doggies were fine. Trailer had been serviced in Chilliwack, not ETI, 45 min earlier.. new tire, brakes, bearings axles.. the works $$$. WDH , bars etc all in place as required and not speeding. Cause of the sudden fishtailing and subsequent tip over unknown. Wt on bike rack well below 150 lbs. empty tanks. Flat tire noted after. Could that be the cause??? Unknown. A truly horrible experience. I have the video of the accident from the following semi trailer. Trailer was replaced with an inventory one. Huge price increase from 2020 to 2024 unfortunately. Haven’t yet travelled far with it, and we will be the ones on the road going slowly.

 

[7Gentex]

Hello everyone. I just went on the forum and saw this post. Thats me. My trailer and Jeep were written off sadly enough but my other half and I and 2 wee doggies were fine. Trailer had been serviced in Chilliwack, not ETI, 45 min earlier.. new tire, brakes, bearings axles.. the works $$$. WDH , bars etc all in place as required and not speeding. Cause of the sudden fishtailing and subsequent tip over unknown. Wt on bike rack well below 150 lbs. empty tanks. Flat tire noted after. Could that be the cause??? Unknown. A truly horrible experience. I have the video of the accident from the following semi trailer. Trailer was replaced with an inventory one. Huge price increase from 2020 to 2024 unfortunately. Haven’t yet travelled far with it, and we will be the ones on the road going slowly.

Glad y'all all all good.

Bet that was a ride! Yikes...............

Flat on tow vehicle or trailer?

What model trailer? E19?

Is the tire still on the trailer behind the bicycle in the pic in the first post above?

Vid would be interesting" if you care to share.

 

[Happycamper me]

Yes, 2020 E 19 bought new. 2020 Jeep GC bought new. Rear dr side tire flat on trailer. All tires remained on including spare. Felt like it was happening in slow motion as I tried to avoid the drop off into the trees. The trailer going over pulled the TV over. I was stunned that both were written off by ICBC, insurance corp of BC. But repairs and especially air bags are costly to repair/replace. The brown on the trailer underbelly is foam insulation.

 

[Happycamper me]

Oops. Upon checking my photos it was dr side front tire on the trailer that was flat.

 

[Bobbie54]

Wow, glad you are okay. Scary, though, if it was the tire (and scary if the cause is still unknown, too.)

 

[dspratley]

Glad you and your family are fine and feel comfortable enough to get back on the horse.

 

[MarkinVan]

Yikes, same setup. What's your tow vehicle now?

 

[Rossue2]

Unfortunately the Escape 19 is THE most prone to trailer sway and rollover- IMO.

The 21NE is a stretched 19, btw. With both models one has to pay particular attention to tongue weight.

With a 21C it is hard to have a light tongue weight as the bathroom is on the front as well as the bed with a LOT of storage under the bed.

 

[Happycamper me]

Yikes, same setup. What's your tow vehicle now?

Another Jeep GC but I wonder if I should have bought a truck. Think we will load the front of the trailer with extra weight somehow. Any ideas?

 

[dspratley]

Used to own a 19ft towed by a Highlander with a WDH and never had problems. Get the front storage box and put a couple heavy lead acid batteries in it. Place lots of heavy stuff under the dinette seats and keep the propane tanks full as much as possible. Measure your tongue weight.

 

[Craig_TaB]

Unfortunately the Escape 19 is THE most prone to trailer sway and rollover- IMO.

Any 'data': tow ball to axle, trailer standard fore-aft loading, or other "engineering evaluation" information for your 'most prone' opinion?

One would think that the ETI staff (and contract{?} engineering services) would be all over a design safety error . . . . .

I for one am struggling between a 17B or 19 . . . so safety data facts would be helpful.

 

[7Gentex]

A flat on the trailer will get your attention!

The "brown" in the original pic at the very first of this thread looks like a piece of plywood........? Or, is it just a bit of foam in front of the gray tank.....?

Did you add that? I thought ETI covered the whole bottom of the trailer?

And, my E19 with an Equalizer WDH (friction sway built in) pulls like it is on rails, even with a "short" WB (133") pickup TV.........(and I have had a ProPride P3 before on another trailer that wanted to sway regardless of TV) Weight distribution / tongue weight % is crucial for any trailer.

 

[Happycamper me]

Used to own a 19ft towed by a Highlander with a WDH and never had problems. Get the front storage box and put a couple heavy lead acid batteries in it. Place lots of heavy stuff under the dinette seats and keep the propane tanks full as much as possible. Measure your tongue weight.

The trailers 2 lead acid batteries are inside under bench seat. You suggesting extras for the wt factor? Roughly an extra 80 lbs..?

 

[Happycamper me]

A flat on the trailer will get your attention!

The "brown" in the original pic at the very first of this thread looks like a piece of plywood........? Or, is it just a bit of foam in front of the gray tank.....?

Did you add that? I thought ETI covered the whole bottom of the trailer?

And, my E19 with an Equalizer WDH (friction sway built in) pulls like it is on rails, even with a "short" WB (133") pickup TV.........(and I have had a ProPride P3 before on another trailer that wanted to sway regardless of TV) Weight distribution / tongue weight % is crucial for any trailer.

Had some spray foam so tried putting underneath. Didnt work out but thats the brown substance, no plywood. I wonder if the flat happened during the tip over or before. I thought double axle trailers could handle a flat tire, not cause accidents.