Furnace change on Escape 21 a shocker

[Mountain_gal]

new furnace location works fine

We have a 21 with the new furnace setup. We have used it on cold nights and the trailer warms quickly to a comfortable temperature in the dinette area even with the digital thermostat over the furnace outlet.
Based on our experience so far, it doesn't seem to be anything to worry about.

 

[Jim Bennett]

Being a forced air furnace, location of the thermostat does not matter a lot. The air currents made by the furnace will eliminate any hot air rising as it naturally would.

 

[Mary F]

We have a 21 with the new furnace setup. We have used it on cold nights and the trailer warms quickly to a comfortable temperature in the dinette area even with the digital thermostat over the furnace outlet.
Based on our experience so far, it doesn't seem to be anything to worry about.

Yay! Thanks for your take on it. First hand experience is great info.

 

[Brian B-P]

I note that houses, with much better furnace output distribution due to their ducted system, invariably place the thermostat centrally and not over a hot air outlet. Of course, the HVAC people might not know that they're doing...

We have a 21 with the new furnace setup. We have used it on cold nights and the trailer warms quickly to a comfortable temperature in the dinette area even with the digital thermostat over the furnace outlet.

What does "cold" mean, in this case?

 

[cpaharley2008]

I really do not think it matters much in a 7x18 room where the thermostat is, look at the electric room heaters with the thermostat right on the unit itself, they still perform as needed.

 

[gbaglo]

I really do not think it matters much in a 7x18 room where the thermostat is, look at the electric room heaters with the thermostat right on the unit itself, they still perform as needed.

Reminds me of the fridge thread, with the opposite theory.

 

[Bobbito]

We found the entire trailer, from end to end, warmed fine thanks to the strong, quiet fan on the new furnace. The thermostat being above it seemed not to matter.
Bob K

 

[steve dunham]

I note that houses, with much better furnace output distribution due to their ducted system, invariably place the thermostat centrally and not over a hot air outlet. Of course, the HVAC people might not know that they're doing...


What does "cold" mean, in this case?

Thermostats in residential occupancies are placed on an interior wall .
They sense the temperature of the return air to the furnace not the discharge air temp
The thermostats anticipator is set to match the current draw of the gas valve,
which is usually around .4 amps. Placing a thermostat where it is subject to direct sunlight can even have an effect on its acuracy. Humans can feel a temperature variation of as little as
1 1/2 degrees so the thermostats location is important.
Low voltage thermostats are far more accurate than line voltage thermostats which are often used with electric heat. Line voltage stats have a temperature swing of + - 5 degrees
unless they have a built in anticipator ,then the temp swing is + - 2 1/2 deg.
Electric heaters with built in thermostats are the worst for maintaining temp at set point.

 

[Ron in BC]

Electric heaters with built in thermostats are the worst for maintaining temp at set point.

That's one of the reasons I added an independent thermostat to my cube heater. It sits under the table. The second reason is that I can reach over in the middle of the night and make adjustments to the temperature without getting out of bed.

Ron

 

[T&R]

Anybody else having any problems with the new furnace? First time trying to use it (Atwood HFH-2000 analog thermostat) the fan came on for about 30 seconds & then shut off. Wasn't able to get it to come on the rest of yesterday evening. This morning called Escape whom called me back thinking it was a thermostat problem as when I popped the cover off it fired right up & blew warm air. Let it run for a few minutes & shut it down.

This evening turned it on & it kicked on no problem blowing warm air. After a few minutes I turned down the thermostat enough for it to shut off. Haven't been able to get it to come back on since. I removed the thermostat & disconnected the two wires, jumpered them together & still nothing.

When the thermostat calls for heat or when I have the wires jumpered there is a faint buzz from the furnace but nothing else. The trailer has propane as I had been running the fridge on propane for three days & we've used the oven & burners several times.

The manual posted on the forum (which BTW is far superior to the one you get with the trailer) talks about some control board with an LED that should flash if there is an error. Problem is I can't figure out how to get to it. There is seemingly no access to the inside of the unit except possibly through the ducting outside which I have not yet explored.

Anybody have any suggestions? I'll be calling Escape again in the morning but would like to bounce ideas off folks here as well.

To recap, I've experienced two types of failure. First time starting the unit the fan came on for about 30 seconds then shut down (I don't think it fired as there was no warm air). Second failure type is no fan & no fire. After both failure types the furnace makes a faint buzzing noise but nothing else when the thermostat calls for heat.

Thanks.

 

[Brian B-P]

When the thermostat calls for heat or when I have the wires jumpered there is a faint buzz from the furnace but nothing else.

That's nothing to do with propane. The start sequence for almost any furnace, and specifically for Atwood RV furnaces, is to run the combustion air blower for a little while to make sure the burner area is purged out, then turn on the ignition and fuel. Since these RV furnaces use one motor to drive both combustion air fan and room air fan, the noise is substantial and cannot be missed - if you are hearing only a faint buzz the fan is not turning as it needs to be.

The manual posted on the forum (which BTW is far superior to the one you get with the trailer) talks about some control board with an LED that should flash if there is an error. Problem is I can't figure out how to get to it. There is seemingly no access to the inside of the unit except possibly through the ducting outside which I have not yet explored.

This furnace follows the typical layout of Atwood's RV furnaces. Most of them have the "working" bits (fan motor, burner assembly) against the trailer's outside wall (where you can get at them via an access door in the "standard door installation"), with the interior air ducts toward the interior of the trailer. This one has to mount in the same direction - to put the return air grill and heated air outlet in the interior in the "interior grill installation" - but that puts the "working" end buried in your interior cabinet (since it is not up against the wall and thus has no outside access door. Since the controller is normally beside the blower, just inside the access door, I have to wonder where it is in this one... buried at the far end of the case? Do you need to pull the whole thing out of the cabinet to work with it? It appears to be item #23 in the parts diagram... in the same place regardless of furnace version, accessible via the outside door in the normal installation, and hopelessly buried in this version.

I have three similar Atwood furnaces in other RVs, and I have had to read that status light. The difference is that I have outside access doors. I don't see how the small outside intake/exhaust grill of this installation could provide access to the controller board.

To recap, I've experienced two types of failure. First time starting the unit the fan came on for about 30 seconds then shut down (I don't think it fired as there was no warm air). Second failure type is no fan & no fire. After both failure types the furnace makes a faint buzzing noise but nothing else when the thermostat calls for heat.

The first one could be a problem with propane, ignition, the airflow switch, or the controller. The second one is more specifically about driving the fan.

 

[Jim Bennett]

It kinda sounds like the fan relay could be acting up. The buzzing sound could be the coil trying to engage the contacts, but not being successful.

I am not familiar with how RV furnaces are put together, more home furnaces, and not sure how easy it is to access or replace the relay (if in fact this is what it is). I would suggest that it be taken into a service shop, where they could likely assess the issue and correct it.

 

[cpaharley2008]

If I recall, this is on the older 8012 model, there is a blinking led light inside the unit as well as a switch that must be turned on before the unit will operate, once the switch is pushed, normal operation resumes.

 

[T&R]

The problem appears to be intermittent as it has worked normally a couple of times then nothing other times. There is a rocker switch on top of the unit in the back that as near as I can tell says Off and Reset. It is in the Reset position. I can't quite reach the switch from inside after taking the wood trim off or I would switch it off & back when the furnace dosnt work to see if that makes a difference. I'm sure I can find something long enough to reach the switch though if I try a little harder. I'm moving campgrounds today so may not spend much time on it.

Attached is a pic of the switch on top.

 

[BCnomad]

If I recall, this is on the older 8012 model, there is a blinking led light inside the unit as well as a switch that must be turned on before the unit will operate, once the switch is pushed, normal operation resumes.

Mine needed front panel off then you could get at control panel that was pointing away from you.

 

[J&JBeyer]

We just received this news from Escape trailers. It is quite a shocker, because it means we give up 2 drawers. What do others who have ordered a 21 think. I expect Reace and Tammy have done their best to look for other suitable replacements of the same size.

Bob K
------------------------------------------
To Whom it May Concern,

Effective February 11, 2015 the furnace (Atwood Model #8012) we have been using is no longer available.

This furnace has been replaced with a new higher efficiency furnace (Atwood Model #AFSAD12). This new furnace is slightly larger and in the 21’ Escape we have had no other option but to relocate it to the 3 – drawer cabinet located on the driver’s side at the foot of the bed. By relocating the furnace to this cabinet we have had to delete the two center drawers as shown in the attached photo.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Please feel free to forward any questions you may have.

Tammy Harmatuik, Business Manager

I was wondering if the heater could be moved to the bottom of the cabinet, and keep the three drawers.

 

[Jim Bennett]

I was wondering if the heater could be moved to the bottom of the cabinet, and keep the three drawers.

The wheel well is in the way of doing that. Plus, there is a minimum distance to the floor, though not certain what that is.

 

[J&JBeyer]

The wheel well is in the way of doing that. Plus, there is a minimum distance to the floor, though not certain what that is.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Brian B-P]

It kinda sounds like the fan relay could be acting up. The buzzing sound could be the coil trying to engage the contacts, but not being successful.

Jim's observation makes sense to me. I would need to check the manual, but I believe that the fan relay is on the controller board - there's at least one relay on there, and they tend to keep all of the electronics and electrical controls on one board.

I am not familiar with how RV furnaces are put together, more home furnaces, and not sure how easy it is to access or replace the relay (if in fact this is what it is). I would suggest that it be taken into a service shop, where they could likely assess the issue and correct it.

RV furnaces are shoehorned into a small space, so access is usually an issue, and I don't find them a lot of fun to work on. If the furnace is still under warranty (and I assume that it is), repair work will likely need to be done by a repair business to be covered anyway, so this might be the point to engage someone. Even when someone else does the repair, I think it is good to understand the problem and likely cause.

 

[J&JBeyer]

We just received this news from Escape trailers. It is quite a shocker, because it means we give up 2 drawers. What do others who have ordered a 21 think. I expect Reace and Tammy have done their best to look for other suitable replacements of the same size.

Bob K
------------------------------------------
To Whom it May Concern,

Effective February 11, 2015 the furnace (Atwood Model #8012) we have been using is no longer available.

This furnace has been replaced with a new higher efficiency furnace (Atwood Model #AFSAD12). This new furnace is slightly larger and in the 21’ Escape we have had no other option but to relocate it to the 3 – drawer cabinet located on the driver’s side at the foot of the bed. By relocating the furnace to this cabinet we have had to delete the two center drawers as shown in the attached photo.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Please feel free to forward any questions you may have.

Tammy Harmatuik, Business Manager

I am unable to find that model of furnace Atwood AFSAD12 on line. I would like to see it as I have a 21' on order.