Help with battery issue, please

[C&G in FL]

Hi C & G,

You made the caveat that the Victron shunt tells no lies, "if functioning properly". Jon V indicated that it needs to be configured for my particular set up, so it seems to be questionable whether it is functioning properly.

Admittedly, I am not a Victron Smart Shunt expert, and I believe Jon to be correct about configuration. When I installed mine, I had the assistance of someone far more qualified with battery chemistry and battery behavior than me. His setup was was similar to mine (same Battleborn battery) and he provided me with the correct parameters which he obtained directly from Battleborn. When I suggested battery problem, I was hypothesizing the batteries’ internal control system. I don’t see how the battery could charge and discharge if there is a loose connection, but I could be wrong. I don’t know your situation at the moment. If you are in the trailer in a cold climate obviously your testing is limited; you cannot shut off the refrigerator or the furnace. But everything should be fused, and as others have suggested maybe start pulling a fuse at a time to see if one is responsible for a huge draw. Someone suggested emergency brakes. You can test that by opening the distribution box, probably near the pin box and disconnect the line to the brakes. The wire providing power should be black and the one going to the brakes should be blue. If the battery drain stops you may have a faulty breakaway switch. Again, I am grasping at straws here from my position outside of the box.

 

[oldwave]

Bear in mind the furnace blower takes a lot of energy. Also if you have a gas absorbtion frig and your inverter is on and the fridge is on auto it will switch to Ac and quickly run down the batteries.

 

[fudge_brownie]

The Victron display should only show what is going into the battery from the solar panel. Being on shore power at the same time is a bit trickier, because now it depends on how your trailer was wired. Earlier models of Escape used a WFCO converter and charger to handle shore power, the issue with these units were that they were not capable of charging Lithium batteries to their full capacity. Something in the neighborhood of 80%.

The fix to this issue was to install a new unit from WFCO or other brands inside the existing WFCO cabinet. This new unit was capable of charging Lithium properly. Not sure what your nearly new model trailer has inside. One test, if you can and have sun, disconnect from shore power and watch the Victron monitor.

Still the issue remains, what is using that battery to draw it down so far?

 

[Lorraine Pittsburgh]

I suppose it might vary by model but FWIW the WeBoost Drive Reach is rated 12V @ 1.8A (~22W).

Yep, as with all loads that can add-up over a period of days if left on all the time.

It'd be interesting to know what it actually pulls per the Victron shunt when it is the only load.

Good luck with your troubleshooting / continuing education, Lorraine!

Hi Alan,

Hope that you are well.

Before sunup this morning, per Jon V's suggestion, the shunt showed -1.75A. After disconnecting the Weboost today, this evening it showed -1.17A, indicating that the WeBoost was pulling 0.6A. That doesn't line up too well with the rating you found, but there you are.

I'm not sure how to set things up so that the WeBoost would be the only load. The propane monitor, refrigerator panel & such are always connected, so I wouldn't know how to take them offline, so to speak. Does that make sense?

Thanks for the research on the WeBoost & the wish for luck - seems like I'll need it on this, as my deep understanding won't be doing it for me!

 

[Lorraine Pittsburgh]

Admittedly, I am not a Victron Smart Shunt expert, and I believe Jon to be correct about configuration. When I installed mine, I had the assistance of someone far more qualified with battery chemistry and battery behavior than me. His setup was was similar to mine (same Battleborn battery) and he provided me with the correct parameters which he obtained directly from Battleborn. When I suggested battery problem, I was hypothesizing the batteries’ internal control system. I don’t see how the battery could charge and discharge if there is a loose connection, but I could be wrong. I don’t know your situation at the moment. If you are in the trailer in a cold climate obviously your testing is limited; you cannot shut off the refrigerator or the furnace. But everything should be fused, and as others have suggested maybe start pulling a fuse at a time to see if one is responsible for a huge draw. Someone suggested emergency brakes. You can test that by opening the distribution box, probably near the pin box and disconnect the line to the brakes. The wire providing power should be black and the one going to the brakes should be blue. If the battery drain stops you may have a faulty breakaway switch. Again, I am grasping at straws here from my position outside of the box.

Hi C & G,

Thanks for following up with more thoughts.

I'm in the Alabama Hills of CA right now, so cool, but not really cold. Moving a bit south to Red Rock Canyon tomorrow. Per Jon V's suggestion, I unhooked, unplugged what I could, & took a reading of the power draw without any sun; it showed -1.17A. Assuming I understand this, that means that nothing that's alway attached, like the emergency brakes, is drawing much energy. Does that make sense?

I will try pulling the fuses one at a time to see if that indicates anything.

Thanks again.

 

[Lorraine Pittsburgh]

Bear in mind the furnace blower takes a lot of energy. Also if you have a gas absorbtion frig and your inverter is on and the fridge is on auto it will switch to Ac and quickly run down the batteries.

Hi Oldwave,

Good reminder on the furnace blower - thanks.

On the fridge, I never put it on auto, & check it often when on propane to be sure that it's still in propane mode, so that shouldn't be my issue. I do appreciate the suggestion as eliminating these potential issues narrows down the possibilities.

 

[Lorraine Pittsburgh]

The Victron display should only show what is going into the battery from the solar panel. Being on shore power at the same time is a bit trickier, because now it depends on how your trailer was wired. Earlier models of Escape used a WFCO converter and charger to handle shore power, the issue with these units were that they were not capable of charging Lithium batteries to their full capacity. Something in the neighborhood of 80%.

The fix to this issue was to install a new unit from WFCO or other brands inside the existing WFCO cabinet. This new unit was capable of charging Lithium properly. Not sure what your nearly new model trailer has inside. One test, if you can and have sun, disconnect from shore power and watch the Victron monitor.

Still the issue remains, what is using that battery to draw it down so far?

Hello again, Paul,

More good info - thanks!

And good news: Checking the app during the day today, I reached "Float" stage on my batteries & stayed there all day (hooked up, with intermittent sun).

 

[Lorraine Pittsburgh]

Hi Folks,

To those of you who've weighed in with suggestions & thoughts & info, thank you so much! This wonderful community here never ceases to amaze me, both in terms of your knowledge & your generosity in sharing it.

After thinking through all this input & info, here's where my thinking is. It seems possible that the battery monitor wasn't configured properly. If that's the case, then the percent readings are bogus. Since the percent readings were all I was using to monitor my batteries, I only thought that I knew what was happening with my battery power. It means that there may not have been any weird power fluctuations at all.

Now that I understand a bit more about the info provided by the app, I'll monitor the batteries that way for a while, & see how that goes.

Again, many thanks.

 

[C&G in FL]

Lorraine, from my limited understanding of the Victron shunt, the most important reading is the state of change (SOC). The propane detector and other minor items you mentioned have negligible draw and it would take days and days to drop the power levels to what you are seeing. Frankly, you can change the parameters of the Victron shunt but I have a hard time believing that inaccurate parameters would cause the huge swings in the SOC that you are reporting. Further more, if ETI supplied the batteries and installed the Victron, I would have to believe they had done the necessary research to configure everything correctly (I’m not suggesting they never screw up on things). Perhaps a phone call to Victron speaking to one of their techs would clarify this issue. I don’t know if you have heating pads on your tanks but I would imagine that they, could chew up a lot of power. Also, there were some suggestions about running the refrigerator on auto. I do not see that as a problem. If you are connected to shore power, yes, it will default to 120 vac. But if you turn off the inverter when it is not in use, then there is no 120 vac for the refrigerator to default to. Just make sure the refrigerator is running on propane when the inverter is in use.

 

[Lorraine Pittsburgh]

Lorraine, from my limited understanding of the Victron shunt, the most important reading is the state of change (SOC). The propane detector and other minor items you mentioned have negligible draw and it would take days and days to drop the power levels to what you are seeing. Frankly, you can change the parameters of the Victron shunt but I have a hard time believing that inaccurate parameters would cause the huge swings in the SOC that you are reporting. Further more, if ETI supplied the batteries and installed the Victron, I would have to believe they had done the necessary research to configure everything correctly (I’m not suggesting they never screw up on things). Perhaps a phone call to Victron speaking to one of their techs would clarify this issue. I don’t know if you have heating pads on your tanks but I would imagine that they, could chew up a lot of power. Also, there were some suggestions about running the refrigerator on auto. I do not see that as a problem. If you are connected to shore power, yes, it will default to 120 vac. But if you turn off the inverter when it is not in use, then there is no 120 vac for the refrigerator to default to. Just make sure the refrigerator is running on propane when the inverter is in use.

Hello again, C & G,

Thanks again for your thoughts.

You mentioned the SOC value on the viltron shunt. Previous to the starting this thread, I never looked at anything other than the percent readings - just tracked that in my head in a general way. So, I've no idea what the SOC has been.

I'd assumed that the propane detector & such would not draw much which is why it was such a surprise when it seemed like they were.

I do have the heating pads, but have not yet used them. Did check to be sure that they're switched off.

Good reminder to always confirm that fridge is on propane when not on shore power - will redouble my efforts here.

 

[alanmalk]

....
I'm not sure how to set things up so that the WeBoost would be the only load. The propane monitor, refrigerator panel & such are always connected, so I wouldn't know how to take them offline, so to speak. Does that make sense?
...

From my hazy memory: The propane monitor in my trailer uses about 0.1 to 0.2 Amps. Taking it offline might be difficult without detaching wires.

Taking the refrigerator offline is easier - just the main On-Off switch should do it.

The water heater *may*? be taking a bit since it operates on 12V as well as 110V. Someone may be able to answer that for us.

Emergency brakes should not draw anything because they are activated by an "all or nothing" switch at the hitch. "All" would be many Amps.

As you probably know by now, finding "phantom" power drains can be challenging. Pull fuses, flip switches, disconnect wires, etc, all while running back to the meter to see how much has changed. Best of Luck!

 

[GinoandLinda]

After thinking through all this input & info, here's where my thinking is. It seems possible that the battery monitor wasn't configured properly. If that's the case, then the percent readings are bogus. Since the percent readings were all I was using to monitor my batteries, I only thought that I knew what was happening with my battery power. It means that there may not have been any weird power fluctuations at all.

Now that I understand a bit more about the info provided by the app, I'll monitor the batteries that way for a while, & see how that goes.

Again, many thanks.

Yes, the information you get from the battery monitor is only as good as it's initial configuration. Set it up thinking the batteries are 100% full when they are actually only 80% full and guess what, they will poop out when you think you still have plenty left.

Also, and I'm sure you are well aware of this but it bears repeating, roof top solar panels in the winter are not nearly as good as they are in the summer unless you can adjust them for the low sun angle. As I mentioned in a previous post, we went boondocking in southern New Mexico around Christmas. We used our 130watt portable panel which has its own 10amp controller because we could direct it low at the southern horizon unlike our rooftop panels. That 130watt/10amp panel outperformed our two 190watt/20amp solar system all day long.

If you plan on camping all year round, a portable solar panel kit would be a good investment.

 

[BobG-ESC]

Lorraine,
Your battery voltages never get very high (over 14 volts. I suspect that the solar charge controller is not set up for your lithium batteries. I also suspect that your shunt is not set up correctly for your batteries but not sure about that. I think your batteries are not charging properly and the shunt is not set up for your batteries.

What solar charge controller do you have?

If you walk around an RV park or campground with the Victron app turned on and Bluetooth turned on, your phone and the Victron app will pick up other Victron equipment. You might be able to figure out what rig the signal is coming from and inquire if they are familiar with setting up the Victron battery monitor (shunt). If you have the Victron MPPT solar charge controller, they may also be able to check that for you too.

The solar will charge your batteries if you have a Victron MPPT solar charge controller and the SOC will track accurately both during discharge and during charging if the equipment is set up properly. Assuming nothing is broken.