Hublion BMS Reset?

[vtadv]

Hi All,

We took delivery of our new 21C in December. We have the Zap pack with 4 Hublion 100ah batteries.

While I understand that in cold climates it's best to store the batteries inside during the winter, I was a bit intimidated by removing them until I learned more about the electrical systems, so I kept the trailer plugged into shore power during colder weather, since I thought the batteries were equipped with an internal heater and BMS that would protect them in colder weather.

The batteries won't take a charge and I suspect the BMS was triggered and I'm hoping the batteries aren't cooked. Lesson learned - I will move them inside next winter.

I've disconnected them from the system and confirmed 0 / near 0 voltage with a multi-meter. Some online research suggested that it might be possible to reset the BMS by charging them with a standalone charger. Yesterday I connected one of the batteries using a Noco Genius 1 charger. Since it didn't recognize the battery, I used the option to force charge for ~7 minutes. This also failed to wake up the batteries.

I can't find a manual for the Hublion batteries. They don't seem to have any external button to reset the BMS. Anyone have any ideas on what else I should try?

 

[alanmalk]

I think you are on the right track. One question: Can you use your multi-meter to confirm that the Noco Genius force charge is supplying 15 volts at the battery terminal?

 

[SRS]

There are manuals for HubLion batteries and two are attached. It recommends using a charger with lithium specific charging algorithms. I believe the Victron IP65 charger might do the trick, but I'm not positive. I remove my HubLion batteries each fall and before reinstalling, I charge each battery individually with an IP65. There are of course other chargers that would do the same thing as an IP65. Also, it's my understanding from another post either here or on Facebook that if the battery label doesn't say heated, they are not heated. My batteries don't say heated on the label.

Since your batteries are under warranty, it might be worth a call to HubLion for more specific information. Hope this helps and you get your issue resolved.

 

[vtadv]

I think you are on the right track. One question: Can you use your multi-meter to confirm that the Noco Genius force charge is supplying 15 volts at the battery terminal?

Thanks! In force charge mode, on the lithium profile, it shows about 17.5 volts at the battery terminal.

 

[alanmalk]

I just scanned the documents supplied by SRS. They are telling me that anything over 15 VDC will cause a BMS disconnect. And equally important, a re-connect should be 14.4 VDC. I think the best target would be 14.75 VDC.

I also think that SRS' recommendation regarding looking at the label for "Heated ..." is important. If in fact your batteries are not heated then you have to reconstruct your low temperatures last winter. Were they below -20C for more than a few hours? That might be serious trouble as charging cold batteries - below -20C in this case - can cause failure.

 

[CE Vogel]

My Renogy battery BMS went into cold weather shutdown two years ago, but the trailer was not plugged in at the time. Once the batteries warmed up and I plugged in the trailer, the converter/charger quickly reset the BMS. Lithium battery BMS are picky about how they are reset. On my batteries, the charger MUST be between 12.6 and 14.2 volts for the BMS to reconnect. According the the spec SRS linked, you need to provide between 12V and 14.4V to reset the HubLion BMS, so the 17.5V NOCO will not work. I am surprised the trailer converter/charger didn't reset the BMS when the weather warmed, you may want to check the converter/charge voltage, it should be around 14.4V. You may be able to 'flash' your HubLion from your truck battery: connect the truck and HubLion negative posts with a jumper cable, attach another cable to the truck positive post and briefly touch the positive post on the HubLion battery. I recommend you do this with the truck not running. I agree with alanmalk, if your batteries are not labeled as heated, they probably aren't heated, and severe cold temperature, especially while under charge, can permanently damage the battery. Good luck!

 

[vtadv]

Thanks all for the great info and suggestions. Appreciate you posting the manuals, SRS - I hadn't been able to find them on the site.

When deciding whether to go with the ETI-installed batteries, I researched on this forum and thought I had read that they included both heating and cold temp shutoff. Should have confirmed that those were the same batteries I had actually had installed.

The Victron charger also has a low temperature cutoff option activated, but I need to confirm whether it was reading a working sensor.

I'm going to make one more attempt to ensure I'm feeding the correct volts and try individually charing one more time, then will contact Hublion.

 

[7Gentex]

Believe your HubLion batts from ETI are heated......................

Are they green, or yellow top?

Battery heaters pull power from external DC source, not from the batts.

Linky

 

[Luvnlife-ESC]

The ones that came with mine are green tops. So are they heated?

 

[7Gentex]

You tell me....................Is it a LFP-24? If so, Yes.

HUB-12.8V-100-LFP-24 - Hub Power

Normal Voltage 12.8 V Amp Hour Capacity 100 AH Reserve Capacity @ 25A: 240 min Energy Density: 1280 Wh

hubpower.ca

 

[Luvnlife-ESC]

Yes it is an LFP-24. Thanks

 

[SRS]

You tell me....................Is it a LFP-24? If so, Yes.

HUB-12.8V-100-LFP-24 - Hub Power

Normal Voltage 12.8 V Amp Hour Capacity 100 AH Reserve Capacity @ 25A: 240 min Energy Density: 1280 Wh

hubpower.ca

View attachment 981150

I could be mistaken but I think the LFP-24 just means Lithium battery in group size 24. My two HubLion batteries have black tops and have the same designation. The key may be the label on the side of the battery that says "integrated heating." My two batteries don't say that. And maybe the green top is also an indicator.
Food for thought.

 

[7Gentex]

I could be mistaken but I think the LFP-24 just means Lithium battery in group size 24. My two HubLion batteries have black tops and have the same designation. The key may be the label on the side of the battery that says "integrated heating." My two batteries don't say that. And maybe the green top is also an indicator.
Food for thought.

You are correct LFP-24 is the lithium / size (group 24) designation.........

What I was getting at is the current production (as OP's appear to be recent Dec. 2024 pickup) HUBLion brand LFP-24 100 AH green tops are heated.

My HUBLion 100 AH are from 10/2022 and are black top as well. No mention anywhere on the battery of being heated - yet they are.

 

[vtadv]

As soon as I pulled the batteries, it was clear they have the internal heating option, so hopefully rules out one possible cause of failure.

I tried individually charing one of the batteries with a Victron IP65 charger and no luck. It reads about 2.5 volts after charing, but can't get above that, so it seems the BMS is still locked or there's a bigger issue. I also tried the flash charge method, which didn't seem to do the trick either.

Sounds like it's time to contact ETI / Hublion.

 

[SRS]

You are correct LFP-24 is the lithium / size (group 24) designation.........

What I was getting at is the current production (as OP's appear to be recent Dec. 2024 pickup) HUBLion brand LFP-24 100 AH green tops are heated.

My HUBLion 100 AH are from 10/2022 and are black top as well. No mention anywhere on the battery of being heated - yet they are.

That's very interesting and thanks for the info regarding the heated / not heated. Like you, mine are also 2022. Initially I thought mine were heated but other things I've read suggest otherwise. If you don't mind sharing, how did you determine yours are heated? I take my batteries out every winter mostly because I don't winter camp so I've never tested them to see. And to be honest I'm not sure how to test them.

 

[GinoandLinda]

My HUB batteries are 2022 blacktops as well and they are not heated. I checked when I first got them because I was considering the purchase of heating pads. It appears that the battery cases have changed in the last couple of years and the green tops are heated and the yellow tops are not. You can verify by looking at the data sheet. If there is a section titled "heating circuit" it is a heated battery.

 

[7Gentex]

That's very interesting and thanks for the info regarding the heated / not heated. Like you, mine are also 2022. Initially I thought mine were heated but other things I've read suggest otherwise. If you don't mind sharing, how did you determine yours are heated? I take my batteries out every winter mostly because I don't winter camp so I've never tested them to see. And to be honest I'm not sure how to test them.

How I know mine are heated:

First, was a call to ETI ( Believe they only install heated LiPo4 batts?)
Second, was an email to HUBLion
Third, was seeing the Victron amp graph overnight during a cold spell when the batt heaters came on:

 

[7Gentex]

My HUB batteries are 2022 blacktops as well and they are not heated. I checked when I first got them because I was considering the purchase of heating pads. It appears that the battery cases have changed in the last couple of years and the green tops are heated and the yellow tops are not. You can verify by looking at the data sheet. If there is a section titled "heating circuit" it is a heated battery.

Curious, who/where/what did you "check" regarding heated, or not?

 

[GinoandLinda]

How I know mine are heated:

First, was a call to ETI ( Believe they only install heated LiPo4 batts?)
Second, was an email to HUBLion
Third, was seeing the Victron amp graph overnight during a cold spell when the batt heaters came on:
View attachment 981220

For me, I asked ETI when we picked up the 5.0 because we also purchased 2 additional HUB batteries. I then verified by contacting HUB. Also, the pamphlet that came with the battery says "Heating circuits are available as an option".

 

[SRS]

My HUB batteries are 2022 blacktops as well and they are not heated. I checked when I first got them because I was considering the purchase of heating pads. It appears that the battery cases have changed in the last couple of years and the green tops are heated and the yellow tops are not. You can verify by looking at the data sheet. If there is a section titled "heating circuit" it is a heated battery.

The HubLion documents I downloaded after getting my trailer both say they are heated. The specification sheet has a "heating circuit" section. But these days, many document from manufacturers cover more than one product of a similar type. It would be nice to know if they are heated for future needs. The above post suggest that ETI & Hub give conflicting info but 7CenTex post seems to verify that his are heated.