Intending to do some DIY

John-in-Texas

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Hello everyone. We ordered our E19 (ready for delivery now) without EMS/surge protector, solar and lithium, intending to do all this DIY. Some advice please:


1. Which is better, a built-in EMS/surge protector or a pedestal mounted? Is a pedestal mounted one better as it would protect the power cord as well as the trailer's systems? Any brand / model recommendations? How many joules?

2. Plan to mount 3 x 250W 24v Rich Solar panels in series on the roof with 2 x 460W 12v Epoch lithium batteries in series for 24v. Maybe a second pair of these batteries in series-parallel, in hopes of running a Houghton 13.5 air conditioner on hot days or nights.


4. Are 400 lbs of batteries too much for tongue weight?


5. Plan to manage all this with Victron components and a 24v-12v converter.

6. With only 750W on the roof, will these batteries ever get charged?

7. I have a 2500W Westinghouse inverter generator.


Is this plan good, bad or ugly? Thanks.


John-in-Texas
 
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Hello all

More questions about the electrical monitoring system

We will be camping with hookups about 50% of the time.
Definitely going for solar power without inverter.... inverter is mostly needed for microwave and if im plugged in all is ok and inverter not needed right ?

We are getting upgraded AC for times we go south but do plan on doing alot of spring and fall camping

We already own a generator and a yamaha 2200 inverter so not sure if built in EMS is good idea

Please share your thoughts


Get the built in EMS and a bonding plug*.

*(if gen has a floating neutral - which most small ones do)

See bold above - Is the gen a Yamaha, do you own a Yamaha 2200 inverter gen? Or............?

Food for thought on the smaller Yamaha 2000 inverter gen - it doesn't play well with the EMS - lots of folks had problems with the Yamaha 2000 inverter gen.....EMS or not............

https://www.progressiveindustries.net/disclaimer
 
....
1. Which is better, a built-in EMS/surge protector or a pedestal mounted? Is a pedestal mounted one better as it would protect the power cord as well as the trailer's systems? Any brand / model recommendations? How many joules?
....
FWIW my 'pedestal-to-power-center' kit includes:
  • Non Contact Voltage Tester (in an abundance of caution because there are some flaky RV pedestal situations out there, for testing the pedestal before even touching it, then can be used to check for 'hot-skin' on the trailer chassis / appliances after connected to shore power)
  • Progressive Industries 30 Amp RV Outlet Tester (for testing the pedistal before I even pull into the campsite)
  • Adaptors (gender refers to ends on the adaptor): 50A male>30A female; 30A male>20A female; 15A male>30A female (each useful at one time or another, many sources, I happen to prefer the 'dogbone-type' with a short cable between the 90-degree ends because they seem to 'hang better' / fit under pedestal weather-protection lids / put less stress on the sockets)
  • SmartPlug Combo Kit (replaces trailer shore-power connector and removable cord trailer-end for very secure and easy / trouble-free connection; the Smartplug socket completely covered the removed OE connector holes on my trailer, looks 100% original, no 'filler-plate' required, YMMV)
  • Progessive Industries EMS-HW30C (same hard-wired EMS installed by ETI, I like having it inside weather-protected, secure, convenient access day / night / inclement weather, with remote diagnostic display. IMO lends to easier troubleshooting than an outdoor unit on the pedestal. I've not needed it but many here have reported that if the surge module blows, they've received free replacement shipped ASAP to them while on the road; IOW, good lifetime warranty support from Progressive)
Very happy with all the components, I DIY installed all items. Links above are just examples; all of these items can be competitively shopped.

Just for your consideration, Be Safe, Have Fun! :)
 
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FWIW my 'pedestal-to-power-center' kit includes:
  • Progressive Industries 30 Amp RV Outlet Tester (for testing the pedistal before I even pull into the campsite)

  • Adaptors (gender refers to ends on the adaptor): 50A male>30A female; 30A male>20A female; 15A male>30A female (each useful at one time or another, many sources, I happen to prefer the 'dogbone-type' with a short cable between the 90-degree ends because they seem to 'hang better' / fit under pedestal weather-protection lids / put less stress on the sockets)

  • Progessive Industries EMS-HW30C (same hard-wired EMS installed by ETI, I like having it inside weather-protected, secure, convenient access day / night / inclement weather, with remote diagnostic display. IMO lends to easier troubleshooting than an outdoor unit on the pedestal.
Years ago, on a hot day we had a brownout at the campsite we were camped and fried our electrical box in our Casita, despite having a surge protector. The surge protector was a cheap basic model and didn't protect against brownouts.

Have had a Progressive Industries and Hughes pedestal surge/electrical protectors in the past. Work great until you get to a pedestal that was installed less than a foot from the ground ( for instance, Gilbert Ray Campground, near Tucson) and can't be installed.

We want our surge protector inside, protected from the elements, where it can't be stolen. When home our camper sits in a seasonal campsite. A few years ago 3-4 pedestal surge protectors were stolen one night and that's easy to do when mounted on the pedestal. We want one inside our trailer.

We have 50 to 30 amp and 110 to 30 amp dogbones for the rare occasion one of the plug-ins is faulty.

Progressive Industries 15 and 30 amp testers are used to plug in at the electrical box to test the circuits BEFORE plugging our camper at the electrical box. In addition, we have PI's simple 30 amp surge protector that is plugged in at the box.

We chose to have a Hughes 30 Amp Bluetooth Surge Protector with Auto Shutoff instead of the Progressive Industries unit. It's not really any better than the Progressive Industries unit, but it's Bluetooth instead of a screen and that works better for me. YMMV.

OTOH, we spend about 75% of our nights on the road without services (120-150 nights away from home).

Food for thought,

Perry
 
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400 pounds additional tongue weight?

That's a lot of weight. Consider installing some batteries within the cabin, distributing the weights among the floor plan.

I also confirm the recommendation of the interior installation of the surge protector.

If the sun shines, your batteries will be charged with 750
Watts of power.
 
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That's a lot of weight. Consider installing some batteries within the cabin, distributing the weights among the floor plan.

whats the payload (GWR - curb weight) of a 19 ? 400 lbs is likely a big chunk of it. the stock dual GC batts were like 140 lbs so you've added about 260 lbs to that.
 
Might want to verify the batt weights, my 12v 100ah Lipo batts only weigh 28 lbs each

That said, running a 120v air conditioner off an inverter for any appreciable length of time is going to be a serious battery challenge.....
 
per #1: Order or install an in-trailer EMS. I have seen other campers attempt to secure from theft a pedestal EMS; too much hassle.

per #2: I am not sure how you will secure three panels on an E19. There has been numerous comments on this forum of panels becoming airborne when mounted too far forward.

per #3: Why would you put the batteries on the tongue? You could locate them under the dinette benches; more secure and less impact on the tongue weight.

per #6: A good rule of thumb is 100 Whr of battery energy can be charged with ~200 W of solar. If you review numerous self installs and higher end commercial installs (e.g., the now defunct AM solar) you will see this ratio hold true. So with 750W of solar and 1380 Whr of battery capacity, you may be able to maintain charge, if you can locate all of that solar. I assume you have done an engineering analysis of the expected power and energy consumption. Seems high, but you must be planning to use high power/energy consumption equipment; inverter for microwave, resistive heating (blow dryer), etc.

2 cents
 
Hello everyone. We ordered our E19 (ready for delivery now) without EMS/surge protector, solar and lithium, intending to do all this DIY. Some advice please:


1. Which is better, a built-in EMS/surge protector or a pedestal mounted? Is a pedestal mounted one better as it would protect the power cord as well as the trailer's systems? Any brand / model recommendations? How many joules?

John, can;t help you with the solar but there are plenty of folks on the forum who know solar well, so I would listen to then. I would say however that having all of your solar on the roof may not deliver the results you are expecting. I would count on having some portable solar panels that you can aim at the sun when you are in shaded conditions.

As far as the EMS/Surge protector, before we purchased our Escape which has a built in, we used a Bulldog unit on our previous RV. It was good but had to be oriented correctly if rain was expected and we always had to lock it to the pedestal to prevent theft. We much prefer the built in.
 
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Might want to verify the batt weights, my 12v 100ah Lipo batts only weigh 28 lbs each

That said, running a 120v air conditioner off an inverter for any appreciable length of time is going to be a serious battery challenge.....

and my 206AH lithium batts are 48 lbs each.... I can easily see 460AH batts being 100 lbs apiece, and he's talking about maybe 4 of those. oh, he said '460 W' but I'm sure he meant AH. My 2 x 206AH are a combined 5260 watt*hours, which would run a small AC for maybe 5 hours total before being completely flat.
 
Bad math....

per #1: Order or install an in-trailer EMS. I have seen other campers attempt to secure from theft a pedestal EMS; too much hassle.

per #2: I am not sure how you will secure three panels on an E19. There has been numerous comments on this forum of panels becoming airborne when mounted too far forward.

per #3: Why would you put the batteries on the tongue? You could locate them under the dinette benches; more secure and less impact on the tongue weight.

per #6: A good rule of thumb is 100 Whr of battery energy can be charged with ~200 W of solar. If you review numerous self installs and higher end commercial installs (e.g., the now defunct AM solar) you will see this ratio hold true. So with 750W of solar and 1380 Whr of battery capacity, you may be able to maintain charge, if you can locate all of that solar. I assume you have done an engineering analysis of the expected power and energy consumption. Seems high, but you must be planning to use high power/energy consumption equipment; inverter for microwave, resistive heating (blow dryer), etc.

2 cents

Bad math on my part.

per #6: 3 solar panels at 250W = 750W total. That should support about 375 Whr of battery capacity (assuming fast charging LiFePO4). Any significant battery capacity above 375 Whr will be akin to gas in a fuel tank; electrical energy storage until you get power hookups.
 
Bad math on my part.

per #6: 3 solar panels at 250W = 750W total. That should support about 375 Whr of battery capacity (assuming fast charging LiFePO4). Any significant battery capacity above 375 Whr will be akin to gas in a fuel tank; electrical energy storage until you get power hookups.

huh? My single 360W panel easily generates 3000 WH per day spring/summer/fall if the batteries are deeply discharged and its sunny/clear most of the day. When camping, my usual daily usage is around 600-700 WH/day, but my batteries are 5260 WH, so I can go at least a week on battery only.
 
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My DIY 12v/460ah batteries are around 80lb each. Two of them will run the AC for around 24 hours in typical upper 80s low 90s weather conditions.
 
huh? My single 360W panel easily generates 3000 WH per day spring/summer/fall if the batteries are deeply discharged and its sunny/clear most of the day. When camping, my usual daily usage is around 600-700 WH/day, but my batteries are 5260 WH, so I can go at least a week on battery only.


Must be nice to live in a sunny area. I consider it a good day to get more than 1000wh out of my 380w solar panels in Virginia.
 
My DIY 12v/460ah batteries are around 80lb each. Two of them will run the AC for around 24 hours in typical upper 80s low 90s weather conditions.

Hugh, Did you mean to say 2-4 hours? If not, what kind of AC are you running?
 
Hugh, Did you mean to say 2-4 hours? If not, what kind of AC are you running?


Nope, I get about 24 hours running my Coleman Mach 10 NDQ.

I have two 460AH batteries, so 920Ah x 12V = 11,040Wh.

The AC draws around 1200 watts when running, which is around 9 hours of "compressor on" runtime. But the AC compressor doesn't run continuously - it cycles on and off as needed to cool off the camper. In practice, that means I get about 24 hours off of a charge. It does obviously vary based on the weather conditions. i suspect if I was sitting under the Arizona sun in the middle of summer, the runtime would be quite a bit less!
 
I have two 460AH batteries, so 920Ah x 12V = 11,040Wh.
...

Lithium battery power is usually quoted at 12.8V as that's the average between fully charged and nearly dead. so 920AH * 12.8V = 11.776 WH, or about 11.8 KWH

thats a bit over twice what I have, but I've never tried to run my AC on DC. My son has a lithium battery camper he built with big solar, and he runs a heat pump in the Nevada summer desert, afaik, its working great for him. I don't know the specifics.

i suspect if I was sitting under the Arizona sun in the middle of summer, the runtime would be quite a bit less!

OTOH, your solar panels would be cranking it out.
 
Nope, I get about 24 hours running my Coleman Mach 10 NDQ.

I have two 460AH batteries, so 920Ah x 12V = 11,040Wh.

The AC draws around 1200 watts when running, which is around 9 hours of "compressor on" runtime. But the AC compressor doesn't run continuously - it cycles on and off as needed to cool off the camper. In practice, that means I get about 24 hours off of a charge. It does obviously vary based on the weather conditions. i suspect if I was sitting under the Arizona sun in the middle of summer, the runtime would be quite a bit less!
I'm struggling to understand how this works-out in practice over a period of many days with only one 360W (~3000Wh/day) PV panel to recharge those batteries. :confused:

Are you only running your AC a few hours each day (referring to 'AC-on' time, not the thermostat-controlled cycling compressor time, which I understand is only some % of the 'AC-on' time)?
 
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I'm struggling to understand how this works-out in practice over a period of many days with only one 360W (~3000Wh/day) PV panel to recharge those batteries. :confused:

Are you only running your AC a few hours each day (referring to 'AC-on' time, not the thermostat-controlled cycling compressor time, which I understand is only some % of the 'AC-on' time)?

*I* have 1 360W panel. the OP said he has 3 x 250W = 750W solar
 
*I* have 1 360W panel.
Ah, I now realize Hugh has not posted his total PV array description.

.... I consider it a good day to get more than 1000wh out of my 380w solar panels in Virginia.
Hugh, what's the total number of panels / typical total Wh/day output of your PV array (goes to understanding multiple-days running AC on solar+batteries in your case)?

TIA
 
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