Inverter install questions

[Lanark Camper]

I recently bought a 2000W, pure sine inverter. I intend to install it with an automatic transfer switch.

1. I’m looking at the Go-power transfer switch. I believe Escape was using those. What has been the experience been using them ?

2. When the power source switches over to the inverter obviously you want to disconnect the 110 v going into the converter so you’re not trying to charge the battery with the inverter. How is that usually done ?

Thanks, Bob

 

[Perry Butler]

I recently bought a 2000W, pure sine inverter. I intend to install it with an automatic transfer switch.

1. I’m looking at the Go-power transfer switch. I believe Escape was using those. What has been the experience been using them ?

2. When the power source switches over to the inverter obviously you want to disconnect the 110 v going into the converter so you’re not trying to charge the battery with the inverter. How is that usually done ?

Thanks, Bob

Install the converter/charger between the incoming 120v and the transfer switch.

Enjoy,

Perry

 

[Lanark Camper]

Thanks for your advice.
On our 17B the shore power comes in at the rear driver side of the rv, and our batteries are at the back of the trailer. So it would be logical to install the inverter beside the battery connections and shore power inlet.
The converter/ breaker panel is at the front of the trailer on the passenger side. I believe the breaker serving the converter has a second wire going to it. So I’ll either have to install a switch in that wire or install another circuit breaker only for the converter. Then switch the breaker off whenever we run the inverter. Kind of inconvenient with the breakers under the dining table. Perhaps a separate power switch in a convenient location might be better, less chance of being forgotten.

Bob

 

[Bayner]

Is it worth selling the inverter and going straight to a Victron Multiplus or similar device? Everything you need, in one unit and in one location? Might be worth having a look at if you're not familiar with the option.

 

[Lanark Camper]

Is it worth selling the inverter and going straight to a Victron Multiplus or similar device? Everything you need, in one unit and in one location? Might be worth having a look at if you're not familiar with the option.

Thanks I’ll look into it.

Another option would be to disconnect the converter permanently and install a better battery charger in the back of the RV. It would only have power when the shore power was available. It would make it all seamless and I’m sure I can get a better charger than the converter I now have.

Bob

 

[rubicon327]

Is it worth selling the inverter and going straight to a Victron Multiplus or similar device? Everything you need, in one unit and in one location? Might be worth having a look at if you're not familiar with the option.

Great suggestion IMO. The Victron MultiPlus is impressive. If one wants a bit less robust and more affordable solution I recommend the Xantrex Freedom XC. These devices are an inverter, transfer switch and charger all in one. If you don’t want to deal with a sub panel it can be fed through an independent, inline breaker and wired for full pass-through to the existing 120V power panel. A sub-panel will be more difficult with the main panel so far from the inverter/charger location. You would isolate and abandon the existing converter. Very versatile pieces of equipment that allow less separate parts and great flexibility in design of the electrical system. Attached is an example of how to wire as a full pass-through from AM Solar.

This is my design but using a sub panel. Works great. 80A charger adjustable in 5A increments. 2000W inverter can run mini-split A/C, microwave and all outlets. This is considered only a partial pass-through design.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8/lithium-battery-upgrade-questions-19750-6.html#post380809

 

[GinoandLinda]

Our 5.0 came with a GoPower inverter (1500) and transfer switch. It has worked well so far. No complaints.

 

[rubicon327]

One minor but possibly important thing to think about with any transfer switch is the switching time. The Go-Power TS-30 has traditionally had a very long delay (20 seconds) when switching sources to account for generators getting up to full speed. There was a hack on the old circuit boards to eliminate but now newer units have a jumper to omit the delay if desired. This would probably only be important if you are wired with an inverter and shore power as your two sources and were using the inverter to act as a UPS or uninterruptible power supply. Say leaving your inverter on and ready while running something critical on 120V shore power…maybe a CPAP at night? I can set my Xantrex Freedom XC transfer switch to switch in 20ms or less (considered UPS) and electronics will continue running uninterrupted if the power source changes over from shore to inverter source due to a power outage. I know the Victron MultiPlus can do the same.

 

[Lanark Camper]

Thanks very much for the good advice and options. I’ll continue my research and look at the one unit solution suggested.

Bob

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

re: inverter transfer switch and converter power.... you move all the AC loads you want on the inverter over to the output of the transfer switch via a secondary breaker box known in the trade parlance as a 'sub panel'.... leave the shore power connected directly to the main AC breaker panel, and the converter. Most systems leave the A/C on the main panel so they are shore power only, since you'd need some massive battery capacity for more than a hour or two of AC. Ditto a 2-way water heater and 3-way fridge, you'd leave those on shore power, and let them use propane if you're boondocking rather than battery inverter power.

 

[rubicon327]

re: inverter transfer switch and converter power.... you move all the AC loads you want on the inverter over to the output of the transfer switch via a secondary breaker box known in the trade parlance as a 'sub panel'.... leave the shore power connected directly to the main AC breaker panel, and the converter. Most systems leave the A/C on the main panel so they are shore power only, since you'd need some massive battery capacity for more than a hour or two of AC. Ditto a 2-way water heater and 3-way fridge, you'd leave those on shore power, and let them use propane if you're boondocking rather than battery inverter power.

True John but there isn’t anything wrong with a full pass-through design especially when the charger is built-in with the inverter. Certainly don’t want it trying to charge the batteries when there is no shore power. The user just needs to monitor more closely what is turned on while running on the inverter. With a long distance between battery /inverter location and the power center a full pass-through would prevent the need for a 120V line run back to the inverter from its own breaker and then another line run all the way back up the trailer to a sub panel. With full pass-through they would just need to intercept the shore power line coming in near the rear and create an input and output. No new wiring would need to be run the length of the trailer. Different ways to skin the cat but personally I’d opt for a combination unit used in full-pass through with much less wiring to deal with.

(By the way the AM Solar diagram I attached above still calls it a sub panel but in full pass-through in this situation this would simply be the connection to your main 30A breaker in existing WFCO power center. Would also need an inline 30A breaker upstream of the inverter/charger as shown.)

 

[oldwave]

I wired my multiplus with a full transfer to all circuits. I simply do not run the AC , hot water tank or refrig (except when driving ) on the inverter. Much cleaner design and less AC wiring. If you can’t rely on remembering to do these things on inverter power then add the subpanel. I was out all summer and the model worked fine. Both Xantrex and Victron are excellent choices. For a budget inverter sans charger look at Progressive Dynamics 2000 watt inverter with transfer switch. You keep you existing converter, which is what I installed on my sold 21c.
Also progressive dynamics makes an excellent transfer switch if you wish to keep you existing inverter.

 

[Centex]

Just for your consideration IF you decide to go with a multiplus or the mentioned Xantrex Freedom XC 2000 (what I have) unit, this alternative to keeping the bulky original WFCO power-center just for its still-needed AC breaker and DC fuse distribution panels:

1. Progressive Dynamics PD55K003 AC Distribution Panel
This is a 'split 30/30' AC breaker panel which has two independent breaker busses within one enclosure. It supports a 30A main breaker+up to eight branch breakers dedicated to only shore-power loads AND an independent 30A main breaker+up to eight branch circuits dedicated to inverter / pass through loads. IOW, both a 'shore main' + 'inverter sub-panel' in one convenient easy-to-wire enclosure. I paid $65 for this panel ordered directly from Progressive Dynamics in May 2021.

This panel accepts a range of widely available breakers, 1" single or double, or AFCI/GFCI breakers. I happen to be using Eaton AFCI/GFCI branch circuit breakers sourced from Lowes which eliminates the need for GFCI outlets in the trailer.

2. Progressive Dynamics PD6000 DC Distribution Panel
This is an 18-fuse DC distribution companion to the above AC panel, matching in height for a very nice side-by-side installation. I paid $65 for this panel from BestConverter.com.

Each requires substantially less depth space behind the mounting surface (e.g. dinette bench face) than the WFCO power center:
WFCO mounting depth = 7-1/2"
PD55K003 mounting depth = 4"
PD6000 mounting depth = 2"

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

True John but there isn’t anything wrong with a full pass-through design especially when the charger is built-in with the inverter. Certainly don’t want it trying to charge the batteries when there is no shore power. The user just needs to monitor more closely what is turned on while running on the inverter. With a long distance between battery /inverter location and the power center a full pass-through would prevent the need for a 120V line run back to the inverter from its own breaker and then another line run all the way back up the trailer to a sub panel. With full pass-through they would just need to intercept the shore power line coming in near the rear and create an input and output. No new wiring would need to be run the length of the trailer. Different ways to skin the cat but personally I’d opt for a combination unit used in full-pass through with much less wiring to deal with.

(By the way the AM Solar diagram I attached above still calls it a sub panel but in full pass-through in this situation this would simply be the connection to your main 30A breaker in existing WFCO power center. Would also need an inline 30A breaker upstream of the inverter/charger as shown.)

ah, my power center, inverter, shore power input are all in the back under the bench of the rear dinette, so it would be natural to put the transfer switch and subpanel right next to it. I would use a breaker in the main panel to feed the transfer switch, and move the various other non-AC circuits to the sub panel (which probably would be integrated with the transfer switch). If I had a multimode water heater (mine is propane only) or an absorption fridge (I have a DC compressor fridge), I would leave their AC feeds on the main panel, so the inverter via the sub panel just feeds the various outlets including microwave. For now, my inverter just feeds a dedicated duplex outlet.

(the red outlet and Renogy switch is for the inverter... the other stuff is all 12VDC)

 

[Dave Miller]

re: inverter transfer switch and converter power.... you move all the AC loads you want on the inverter over to the output of the transfer switch via a secondary breaker box known in the trade parlance as a 'sub panel'.... leave the shore power connected directly to the main AC breaker panel, and the converter. Most systems leave the A/C on the main panel so they are shore power only, since you'd need some massive battery capacity for more than a hour or two of AC. Ditto a 2-way water heater and 3-way fridge, you'd leave those on shore power, and let them use propane if you're boondocking rather than battery inverter power.

I added a subpanel with two 15a breakers for the 110 outlets (includes microwave) and a 20a for the ac. I put in an automatic transfer switch that feeds the subpanel. Shore power comes from the power center and my 3000w inverter feeds it as well. If the inverter is on, the switch runs from the inverter.

This way I can’t run the water heater or the power center charger from the inverter. It’s automatic so I only need to turn the inverter switch.

I have the soft start Coleman ac. It runs just fine from my 2200 watt generator, or from my 15a garage shore power, or from the inverter. My shunt shows 68a draw from the batteries when running the AC from the inverter.

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

phew, 4 hours of inverter driven AC at 68 amps is going to be 272 amp*hours pulled from your batteries.

 

[Dave Miller]

phew, 4 hours of inverter driven AC at 68 amps is going to be 272 amp*hours pulled from your batteries.

Two 230AH lithium. And the ac cools the camper quite quickly assuming the outside temp drops in the evening.

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

Two 230AH lithium. And the ac cools the camper quite quickly assuming the outside temp drops in the evening.

You will need about 4000 watt*hours of solar to recharge after 4 hours of AC

 

[Dave Miller]

You will need about 4000 watt*hours of solar to recharge after 4 hours of AC

That I will not have! I have 520 for the roof that is not installed yet as well as 200 portable with the capacity for another 200.

Based on our camping history, we’ll only use the ac for an hour or so just before bed and possibly during the night. If we need it more, I’ll have to break out the generator to charge the batteries. We also have a compressor fridge so I can’t allow the batteries to get too low.

 

[rubicon327]

I have the soft start Coleman ac. It runs just fine from my 2200 watt generator, or from my 15a garage shore power, or from the inverter. My shunt shows 68a draw from the batteries when running the AC from the inverter.

Is that on low speed? Without an inverter compressor 68A sounds kind of low for a traditional rooftop A/C which I assume is 13,500 BTU. My 9,000 BTU mini-split draws 80A DC when ramped completely up.