Lithium upgrade to 2023 5.0 with twin 6V + solar panel

[Centex]

Can you expand on the shunt location? That’s where Escape installed it. On the negative battery cable which goes down thru the floor to the frame bolt.

Not talking about shunt location but what is connected to the shunt loads terminal.

In your ETI installation, is there not a cable from the power center ground-stud connected to the shunt loads terminal, in addition to the cable from the shunt to the frame?

Or, do the separate shunt and power center ground cables go to a single common bolt on the frame?

edit, upon reflection this is all moot, see post below

 

[BritCanuck]

Just to be clear, this is installing a PD4655V converter upgrade within your existing WFCO 8955 Power Center, retaining the WFCO AC and DC Fuse Panels, is that correct?

Correct.

And to answer your later question, the WFCO power centre has its own ground wire going down through the floor to the frame. Presumably thats the AC ground. I’ll check on the DC neg connection.

But yes think I need to edit my diagram to make the neg bus clearer.

Also I think my AC breakers are slightly wrong on the diagram. The converter should be on its own breaker but I don’t appear to have a dedicated breaker. Suspect its sharing another branch breaker. Will check tomorrow to figure that out. I note your as delivered 5.0 had the converter and fridge on the same breaker.

 

[Centex]

Hmmm, I'm not sure that as depicted your shunt will properly / accurately account for trailer loads and charging.

Methinks that rather than routing the DC fuse panel ground to chassis it would be better to route that ground to the shunt "loads" terminal (or a negative bus between the "loads" terminal and the chassis ground).

On reflection that concern was misplaced. Please ignore that thought / suggestion.

Carry on.

 

[BritCanuck]

On reflection that concern was misplaced. Please ignore that thought / suggestion.

Carry on.

Alan, do you have any suggestion on how Escape would have physically wired the DC neg bus bar (above the WFCO) back to the battery negative/ground? I can't figure it out in my 5.0. On the negative bus bar the big 8 AWG cable heads off away from the battery and disappears behind the fridge. No idea where that cable goes? Is it connected to the frame somewhere?

 

[Ron in BC]

I can't give you a specific answer but on my old 19 ETI ran the battery negative down to a frame ground. And then a couple of feet away a ground wire from the frame up to the converter negative. Drove me nuts because of the increased potential for corrosion at these connections causing problems so I changed that situation.

I don't know if they're still doing that or not but my battery ground goes from my shunt output to the negative converter terminal and then down to the trailer frame.

Ron

 

[BritCanuck]

I can't give you a specific answer but on my old 19 ETI ran the battery negative down to a frame ground. And then a couple of feet away a ground wire from the frame up to the converter negative. Drove me nuts because of the increased potential for corrosion at these connections causing problems so I changed that situation.

I don't know if they're still doing that or not but my battery ground goes from my shunt output to the negative converter terminal and then down to the trailer frame.

Ron

I’ve got a big 2 AWG battery neg cable and the AC ground both connected on the same bolt to the frame.

My battery neg goes through the shunt and then thru the floor. But no idea where the dc bus negative cable is going? It's definitely ground as there is 0 ohms resistance between it and the battery neg cable.

 

[Centex]

Alan, do you have any suggestion on how Escape would have physically wired the DC neg bus ....

All I can offer is how mine was wired as delivered:

• Straight-bench dinette with single FLA battery; no shunt, solar, or inverter installed by ETI
• WFCO in DS bench, wire from WFCO ground stud through floor to frame on DS
• Battery in PS bench, wire from neg terminal through floor to frame on PS

So, in my case as delivered from ETI, the ground / negative circuit from WFCO to battery was completed through the frame.
___________

Just FYI, as modified now:

• DC fuse panel in DS bench, wire from the in-panel neg bus to Main Negative Bus
• All DC equipment negative / ground wires which are not connected to the DC Fuse Panel are routed to the Main Negative Bus
• In the PS bench is battery with cable from negative battery terminal to shunt Batt Minus terminal
• Still in the PS bench, cable from shunt Load Minus terminal to Main Battery Disconnect Switch > Main Negative Bus > chassis ground bolt
• My Main Negative (and Positive) Busses are these.

I'm happier with all of the DC circuits completed within the trailer, connections readily accessible for inspection, not relying on ground through the chassis. YMMV.

 

[BobG-ESC]

My trailer came with 2 ground wires connected to the frame at different locations. I disconnected one of them. Only my negative busbar is grounded to the frame. Someday I would like to replace it with a 1/0 AWG cable.

 

[Ron in BC]

On my 19 this is what the battery ground looked like.

Ron

 

[BritCanuck]

Yep. My battery negative and AC ground both go to the frame bolt.

What I can’t figure out is how the DC negative bus bar is connected to it.

 

[BritCanuck]

On my 19 this is what the battery ground looked like.

Ron

Yep. My battery negative and AC ground both go to the frame bolt.

What I can’t figure out is how the DC negative bus bar is connected to it.

 

[Centex]

AC ground

By this are you referring to a wire from the ground-stud on the back of your Power Center, or ...?

the DC negative bus bar

Can you post a pic which captures both this bus bar and your Power Center in the same view?

Trying to understand / visualize your as-delivered arrangement ....

 

[BritCanuck]

By this are you referring to a wire from the ground-stud on the back of your Power Center, or ...?

No, the AC common ground cable connected to the ground bus bar in the WFCO. That comes out of the back and down thru the floor. I can't see a separate external ground stud on the back, unless it's hidden inside? I'll go have another look.

Reading the manual for the WFCO 8955-AD there is no mention of a ground stud. The installation instructions just say to run a wire from the DC bus bar to chassis ground, and the AC ground to the chassis.
.

Can you post a pic which captures both this bus bar and your Power Center in the same view?

Trying to understand / visualize your as-delivered arrangement ....

See attached. 2nd photo shows the DC ground heading off around the back of the hot water tank and behind the fridge.

 

[Centex]

The installation instructions just say to run a wire from the DC bus bar to chassis ground, and the AC ground to the chassis.

Have you looked inside the WFCO to see if ETI connected the DC and AC grounds within that enclosure (which would be OK, rendering the one 'exiting' ground-to-chassis wire good for both AC and DC)?

 

[BritCanuck]

Have you looked inside the WFCO to see if ETI connected the DC and AC grounds within that enclosure (which would be OK, rendering the one 'exiting' ground-to-chassis wire good for both AC and DC)?

Well I disconnected the DC fuse panel from the neg bus bar, and also disconnected the convertor from the DC fuse panel. Measuring between the neg main on the fuse panel and battery negative is open circuit. So as far as I can tell there's no internal link. I can't see anything visually. Looks like it's that 8 AWG cable that goes off into the wild blue yonder!

It's not an issue, I'm not changing any of that wiring (apart from putting some crimps on and changing to a decent bus bar), I would be nice to figure out how it goes to ground though.

 

[BritCanuck]

Would someone mind sanity checking my proposed layout attached? Based on the other ongoing thread about the PD4655V charger not having a lower float voltage when charging lithium, I'm considering adding a voltage regulator and having the DC board only connected to that, so the regulator is dropping the battery 14.4V to a stable 12.6V onto the DC fuse board.

I have the charger bypassing the DC fuse board and connected directly to the battery (via a disconnect switch and a fuse).

 

[CE Vogel]

Chris, your proposed layout generally looks fine. It will work as you expect as designed, but here are a few suggestions.

• The circuit breakers on the battery side of the solar charge controller are redundant. However, you may want to consider installing a 30A breaker physically near the main 12V power buss bar to protect the 6AWG to 10AWG wire junction.
• Consider connecting the Starlink voltage converter input to the 14.4V circuit instead of the 12.6V circuit. This will slightly increase the efficiency of the 12-24 converter as well as decrease the load on the 14.4V to 12.6V regulator.
• Consider using an MRBF fuse at the battery. MRBF fuses bolt directly to the battery terminal for maximum wire protection. The T-fuse you specified will also do the job, but requires more wiring. https://www.waytekwire.com/catalog/fuses/bolt-down-fuses/eaton-s-bussmann-series-mrbf-60-marine
• Unless your solar panels have near identical Vmp ratings, it is best to install two charge controllers. Mismatched panels will not perform to their maximum power when wired together. Portable panels often have their own charge controller built in, these can be connected directly to the battery without affecting the rooftop panel.

Have fun installing all this! It looks like a wonderful system.

 

[BritCanuck]

Chris, your proposed layout generally looks fine. It will work as you expect as designed, but here are a few suggestions.

• The circuit breakers on the battery side of the solar charge controller are redundant. However, you may want to consider installing a 30A breaker physically near the main 12V power buss bar to protect the 6AWG to 10AWG wire junction.

Thanks for that Carl. So on your first point, you mean install a 30A fuse at the other end of that solar 10AWG next to the + bus bar?

 

[CE Vogel]

Thanks for that Carl. So on your first point, you mean install a 30A fuse at the other end of that solar 10AWG next to the + bus bar?

Correct. The 30A breakers on the battery side of the solar charge controller are not needed, but a 30A fuse or breaker at the the +bus bar protects the wire from the bus bar to the solar controller. The solar controller itself is already protected by the breakers between it and the solar panels.

 

[Centex]

The circuit breakers on the battery side of the solar charge controller are redundant. However, you may want to consider installing a 30A breaker physically near the main 12V power buss bar to protect the 6AWG to 10AWG wire junction.

One reason to have a breaker acting as a switch on both sides of the solar controller is to facilitate easy isolation, for whatever reason (e.g. system maintenance / trouble shooting), of the 'solar system' from the battery while still allowing the battery to power the trailer or receive a shore-power / tow vehicle charge.

Victron instructs that when disconnecting a controller from the battery, one should first disconnect the PV array from the controller, then disconnect the controller from the battery; and. vice-versa when connecting the solar system to the battery. A breaker acting as a switch on both sides of the controller facilitates those sequences, as well as providing wire protection.

IMO, for wire protection purposes on the battery-side of the controller, that breaker should be closer to the controller than the battery (or + bus bar) since the source of any current-flow in the wire is the controller, not the battery.

Just for your consideration.