Propane Detector vs Alternative Detection Tool

[kennull]

I have a 2018 Escape 21 purchased new.

It is stored inside with propane tanks turned off.
I repeatedly find in in alarm mode when I unlock the storage location.
This has happened with several different new propane detectors over time.
So much that I have put a switch on the positive wire to prevent the repeated alarming when the trailer is stored.

During a recent 4 day outing on multiple occasions, I turned the power on to the propane detector to find it alarming immediately after powering up. This is with windows open for ventilation and roof fan on; and with the Air Conditioner on with all windows closed. We used the oven and stovetop during the outing, and ran the refrigerator on propane driving to the outing. No propane explosions occurred and no propane was detected by my nose.

I was thinking the propane detector was defective and always alarming.

Wanting to have another way to check for propane in the trailer, I recently purchased a Natural Gas Detector, TopTes PT205 Gas Leak Detector with Audible & Visual Alarm, Propane Leak Detector with %LEL Value of Methane, Butane, and Combustible Gas for Home, RV (Includes Batteryx2)-Orange via Amazon.com. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C74372PQ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

After following the instructions on the alternative detector to power it up and let it calibrate, which I did outside and not in the trailer, I took it into the trailer to find it alarming no matter where I hold it in the trailer. Removing it from the trailer made the alarming go away. I then took the alternative detector to the 3 burner stove and oven, in the dinette area, in the bathroom, over the bed, under the bed, outside to the rear of the refrigerator along the propane lines connecting the refrigerator, the propane lines at the water heater, and the propane lines at the propane tanks and valves, and at the battery venting grill at the rear of the trailer. It only alarms inside the trailer, and none at the other locations mentioned outside the trailer near propane connections.

I have heard that a propane detector can be set off by textile off gassing. Given the trailer is 6 years old I would suspect it is finished off gassing. I resealed the battery box with new adhesive foam thinking this was the problem last year.

I now have a propane detector (less than a year old) alarming always unless power is removed, and an alternative detector (less than a week old) telling me I have a propane leak inside my trailer, but not near any propane lines connected directly to the outside of my trailer.

The alternative detector will alarm when I vent a propane fire starter near it.

Maybe I need a second alternative propane detection tool.

I am hoping someone else has encountered the same thing I am encountering.

Thanks in advance for reading this very long problem description and replying if you have any similar experiences or potential solutions.

 

[Ron in BC]

Sounds really annoying.

Pros have gas sniffers. They have a narrow intake end. If the trailer was really ventilated then closed up and a gas detector more able to pinpoint gas leaks was used it might be able to pinpoint the source, if any.

Have you tried turning off the propane tanks and then running the stove until it dies and seeing if the problem still exists?

Ron

 

[kennull]

It is indeed annoying.

My $25.00 alternative detector is likely not a pro tool.

I have not tried turning off the propane tanks and then running the stove until it dies and seeing if the problem still exists?

I will add this to my try this list...
Thanks for your reply Ron in BC.

 

[Donna D.]

Sounds like the propane detector has expired. They only last about five years and your trailer is six years old.

 

[kennull]

My trailer is 6 years old.

The current propane detector is under 1 year old.

Thanks for your reply, Donna D.

 

[MRBober]

Are your batteries off gassing?

 

[fudge_brownie]

I agree with Mitchell on off gassing. This is a particular issue with the Escape 21 and the inside storage of flooded batteries right next to the propane detector. I suffered several years with propane alarms in the day and night. It did not help to seal the battery box; the vent pipe allegedly has a downslope so does not vent properly. My fix for the past six years was using AGM batteries. They do not off gas. Those batteries have now reached end of life, I will be replacing them in spring with lithium batteries. They do not off gas.

If you have AGM or lithium batteries the off gassing is not causing the alarms.

 

[Ron in BC]

I agree with Mitchell on off gassing. This is a particular issue with the Escape 21 and the inside storage of flooded batteries right next to the propane detector. I suffered several years with propane alarms in the day and night. It did not help to seal the battery box; the vent pipe allegedly has a downslope so does not vent properly. My fix for the past six years was using AGM batteries. They do not off gas. Those batteries have now reached end of life, I will be replacing them in spring with lithium batteries. They do not off gas.

If you have AGM or lithium batteries the off gassing is not causing the alarms.

Strange that I have an E21 and have never ever had a false alarm. The batteries are more than 5' away from the propane detector inside a sealed box inside a locker and vented via a short hose. For the life of me I can't see how venting from the batteries would be a problem unless the charging profile was almost cooking them.

As they say, your experience may differ....and it has.

Ron

 

[DanandDaphne]

Our 2018 has recently had the same problem. The green light was on but it kept going off for no reason so I replaced the propane detector with this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0DFCMYLW7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I had to cut the hole bigger but that's easy and I like the connector it came with.

I like that it is both a carbon monoxide and propane detector and it fixed the alarm problem. My guess would be that you got a dud replacement, lots of defective electronics new out of the box.

I would send it back and try a different one.

 

[C&G in FL]

If you have AGM or lithium batteries the off gassing is not causing the alarms.

While they are less prone to offgassing, certain circumstances can result in offgassing in them. I started with FL batteries and went to AGMs. Both caused propane detector false alarms, although fewer with the AGMs. Going lithium cured the annoyance entirely.

 

[kennull]

Are your batteries off gassing?

The flooded lead acid batteries were off gassing. I purchased a Hydrogen Sulfide detector. It alarmed no matter where in the trailer I placed it. Same as the alternate detector.

I replaced flooded lead acid batteries with AGM and this significantly reduced the errant propane detector alarms. It still alarms occasionally though.

When not using propane overnight, I frequently close the propane tanks valves at night and switch off the propane detector to avoid errant propane detector alarms.

 

[Perry Butler]

I would still buy a LP sniffer to check connections. Mine has found leaks that I could not smell.

Food for thought,,

Perry

 

[George Johnson]

I've read through this thread twice, and I do not see what concerns me most. No one has addressed the possibility that even with the outdated alarm, the possibility of out-gassing construction materials, out-gassing batteries, the occasional false alarm, you may still be dealing with an actual propane leak. That the pattern of alarming changed with the change of batteries indicates to me that you may have had two problems and you fixed one but another one remains. You could be chasing mice around the feet of an elephant in your trailer. If there is a leak, the consequences could be catastrophic.

Mix up a bottle of dish detergent and water and spray every connection along your propane distribution system and look for bubbles. If you aren't comfortable doing it yourself, stop in at your local RV service shop or your propane distributor and see if they can help you. My bother owns a second generation 21 that was equipped with the infamous faulty Suburban stove top, and when it exploded during a trip, it blew out several windows, bent out the door in its frame and caused burns (fortunately minor) on both my brother and his wife. Their propane alarm never went off because the propane was trapped inside the cabinet beneath the stove.

 

[Perry Butler]

I've read through this thread twice, and I do not see what concerns me most. No one has addressed the possibility that even with the outdated alarm, the possibility of out-gassing construction materials, out-gassing batteries, the occasional false alarm, you may still be dealing with an actual propane leak. That the pattern of alarming changed with the change of batteries indicates to me that you may have had two problems and you fixed one but another one remains. You could be chasing mice around the feet of an elephant in your trailer. If there is a leak, the consequences could be catastrophic.

Mix up a bottle of dish detergent and water and spray every connection along your propane distribution system and look for bubbles.

I just suggested for the OP to buy a propane sniffer one post before your post. I find the sniffer works even better than soap bubbles.

Enjoy,

Perry

 

[C&G in FL]

Their propane alarm never went off because the propane was trapped inside the cabinet beneath the stove.

 

[C&G in FL]

While it is not my intention to contradict you, a propane alarm not going off because “the propane was trapped in a cabinet” seems a bit far fetched. I know a previous owner of a 2016 5.0TA who stored a partially used 1 pound disposable cylinder in the front compartment under the overhang (not open to the inside of the trailer) and the valve on the cylinder was leaking slightly. Propane managed to make its way through the wall and set off the propane detector in the rear of the trailer near underneath the dinette table.

 

[George Johnson]

Hello, C&G, I am not offended as you certainly have justification for responding to my comment.

As background, let me start by stating that in my now long distant past, I worked for a national firm that specializes in leakage detection in pipeline systems, primarily natural gas, propane and water. I saw and learned many interesting things. The incident you describe is quite plausible, and while that front compartment might not have been open in the conventional sense, it was certainly open enough to allow the passage of propane molecules onto the living space of the trailer. The alarm was potentially a life saver in that situation.

I am not sure how sensitive modern gas alarms are, but they must be manufactured to activate at very low concentrations, since a normal earth atmosphere with +/-20% oxygen is combustible when it has a concentration of natural gas between 3 and 7% of its volume. Below 3%, there is not enough fuel to sustain the combustion, while above 7% there is not enough oxygen to sustain combustion. Propane is similar enough to natural gas that we don't need to discuss the difference here. Obviously, a good alarm should activate well below that 3% level.

Now with regard to my brother's incident, I suspect the gas didn't begin leaking until the burner control was turned on, and the propane went to the burner to heat the coffee as well as past the cracked aluminum tube the Suburban stove became famous for, and thus into the cabinet. when the gas concentration in the cabinet reached 3% and rose to the flame---BOOM!

"Accidents" are rarely single cause events. It often requires a series of seemingly unlikely events to result in an unfortunate incident. Both the events we have related are examples.

Thanks for your comment, and let's keep "check propane fittings and connections" on our annual maintenance list!

George

 

[CharlesinGA]

A couple of comments.

The various units sold on Amazon, almost certainly made in China, make no mention of meeting any standards or requirements. I have always used Safe-T-Alert units made by MTI Industries Inc. and looking on their web site they state (for their dual units, LP/CO)

• Approved. Meets RVIA/NFPA requirements. Meets 5/1/2011 requirements set by RVIA for CO alarms and Propane Detectors.
• Conforms to UL STD 2034 RV /1484 RV.

Which pretty much tells me that requirements set by the Recreational Vehicle Industry Association (that little oval sticker near the door on your trailer) and more importantly, requirements set by the National Fire Protection Assn, and Underwriters Laboratory are all met. I can pretty well trust the unit to function and sense properly.

With regard to carrying the 1lb propane cylinders, I highly encourage you to purchase some of these brass screw on caps that will prevent leakage from the valve. (no, it won't stop leakage from the overpressure valve) My experience has been that the cylinders are quite prone to leakage after you have used them and then disconnected them from the regulator or equipment you were using (stove, grill, lantern, etc). Someone on the Winnebago View/Navion discussion group had a bad experience with this when they stored a cylinder in an outside storage compartment, I affectionally called "the fish tank" as it was a pull out drawer of molded plastic with a drain plug in the bottom and a hinged lid. Something set off the leaking gas and severely damaged the side of the motor home.

Propane tank caps

Charles

 

[CharlesinGA]

Did anyone notice, the detector linked to in Post #9 doesn't even have the labeling correct on the front, at least on the one illustrated in the listing.

It should read LP Red = LP Leak or Propane Leak.

Charles

 

[CharlesinGA]

Oddly, while typing the above posts, my upstairs smoke alarm in the house went off. After finally figuring out what was making the noise, I silenced it (it is about 10 or 11 feet off the floor, so I had to grab the step ladder I keep up there to access it.) The batteries were replaced 18Nov23 (9v) and the detectors were made in July 2020 and installed in Nov 2020. I'm thinking I may just replace them with the much more expensive models with the 10 year lithium batteries.

There was no smoke. The detector sits directly above a dehumidifier I keep running up there, so I suspect the battery.

This time of the year, they are on the front aisle at Home Depot for a decent price.

Charles