Recreation.Gov experiences and learnings

[kavm]

I was recently looking to book a high-demand campground - Colter Bay RV Park in Grand Teton. I did my homework and determined that the campsites for the dates I wanted open up on, in my case, Feb 4. I was logged in on time and checked availability just as the window opened. Not a single site was open for the date for which the booking window just opened!

Next day, I set an alert for any cancellations for my dates. 2 days later I got the alert and was able to book what I was looking for.

Learning: I believe what’s going on is as follows:

• The bookings starting a date open exactly 6 months in advance. But, those starting their reservations on an earlier date can book a longer stay (up to 14 days).
• So, it seems folks (artificially) book a longer stay before the window for their actual desired stay opens.
• Once the window has opened for the full duration of their desired stay, they just modify the reservation to fit their need and cancel the other days.

Perhaps everyone but us already knows this but it was a new learning for me. Thought I’d share with others.

PS: The above is my guess at what is happening. If I have it wrong, please feel free to correct me. If there are similar tricks elsewhere, please share. I know sharing here makes the trick less effective as more get in on the act - but it also levels the playing field.

 

[Ron in BC]

• So, it seems folks (artificially) book a longer stay before the window for their actual desired stay opens.
• Once the window has opened for the full duration of their desired stay, they just modify the reservation to fit their need and cancel the other days.

PS: The above is my guess at what is happening. If I have it wrong, please feel free to correct me.

You're probably spot on.

That was happening in BC parks with popular places to the point where they took action. Don't show up for the first days or try and cancel them and your total reservation is gone. Seems fair to me.

Ron

 

[Donna D.]

Oregon took action too. You're welcome to cancel days, but if your reservation ends up with fewer days you lose the reservation fees and site fees. Absolutely fair.

 

[WillyB]

Yep, it’s a common practice for cheaters.

 

[alanmalk]

Unfortunately essentially correct. Book-and-Cancel does work for folks that know how to game the system. Its hard for Rec dot Gov to implement a perfect system. Does one exist?

Set a notice for cancellations. Be as flexible as possible. Be prepared to book site A, B and C and move around daily - god what a pain. But ask the camp host if they can do some juggling and keep you in one spot. It does work sometimes. Ask the host to keep an eye open for an extra day or two at the end of your formal reservation. That too can bring the occasional good news. We understand your pain because we are campers too and have to deal with R dot G.

Remember to pay attention to the rule that you loose your reservation if you don't show up within 24 hours on your first day. Car troubles, airline troubles - call the Park and leave a message - twice if necessary. Get the word to the host and your site is safe.

I dread the day the NPS campgrounds are privatized and the rates triple in the high seasons when the weather is tolerable.

 

[Viajante]

I ended up doing just what Kavm suspected so the book and cancel method can be done at National Parks.

In my case I booked a day in a backcountry site in Big Bend when it opened 6 months in advance. During the process I discovered that I could extend the reservation 8 days beyond the period that was open. I did that.

When it came time to make the long drive down my departure was delayed by ice and snow all the way to I-10. I cancelled the first four days. I can’t remember if there was a penalty, maybe $10.

I don’t really know how to improve it. If you have to wait until the full week you want is open for booking, some else will grab the first days while you wait.

The no show rule is good. Some years back Wisconsin did not have a no show rule. At one prime campground people would book the week when it became available and not show up until the weekend, content to pay the site fees they didn’t use. During the weekdays the prime waterfront loop would be 75% vacant even though people were being turned away.

 

[Mike Lewis]

There are some things recreation.gov won't let you do. Back in the fall I booked a site in a campground on the south rim of the Grand Canyon. I reserved it as soon as it opened. Later I realized I had reserved the site a week ahead of when I planned to be there. So I tried to modify my reservation by moving my arrival and departure dates back a week. The website wouldn't let me do that-- I had to make a completely new reservation and then delete the old one. Fair enough.

 

[HABBERDABBER]

Last Spring I had 3 computers simultaneously set up for reserving 3 different Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore (U.P. Michigan) campsites at exactly 9AM, 6 months in advance. These were for open sites at the time. I got one. Others beat me by a second or so.
It's a racket.
I understand why some use hacks.

 

[Donna D.]

In my case I booked a day in a backcountry site in Big Bend when it opened 6 months in advance. During the process I discovered that I could extend the reservation 8 days beyond the period that was open. I did that.

I don’t really know how to improve it. If you have to wait until the full week you want is open for booking, some else will grab the first days while you wait.

That's how it is supposed to work. You reserve exactly six months to the day of the FIRST day you want to be in the park. And you can reserve for all the consecutive time you need up to the maximum time limit for reservations, which is 'typically' 14 days.

I don't know of any reservation system that makes you wait.... that would be a backward reservation.

 

[Viajante]

I don’t think it’s “supposed” to work that way, but that is the way it does work. The glitch is that it creates an incentive to game the system and make a reservation with no intention of keeping it. The system operates according to an expectation that people will use it with proper intentions.

 

[alanmalk]

I will attest that the number 1 question the camphost gets: "What are all these empty sites".
And the number 1 answer: "Someone paid for this site - I can't give it away".

 

[sherminator]

I have noticed many campgrounds have been opening more and more "first come, first served" campsites to combat reservation gaming. I fortunately got to where I had 5 weeks of paid vacation, so I started arriving at those spots on Sunday, Monday or Tuesday. At "all reservation" campgrounds I started camping Sunday through Wednesday or Thursday and not concerning myself about reservations since there are usually many open, unreserved spots. A plus with that is avoiding the weekend crowds.

 

[dosby]

In WA state, you change your reservation with only a 50% refund, if you booked it 9 months in advance. That is, you lose 50% cost of the cancelled days, regardless whether first or last days. There are FB groups where people resell reservations that would be otherwise cancelled for a fee.
BC is much more flexible.

 

[Ron in BC]

BC is much more flexible.

BC now checks the i.d. of folks matches the reservation. No match, no entry.

Ron

 

[dosby]

BC now checks the i.d. of folks matches the reservation. No match, no entry.

Ron

Right, I meant you can cancel more freely than in WA, without much penalty for advance booking.

Cancellations and refunds - Province of British Columbia | BC Parks

Learn how to cancel a camping reservation and claim a refund if you need to. Get information on how to get a refund, when you can get a refund, and when you cannot get a refund.

bcparks.ca

One weird Canada rule is national holiday weekend bookings, your stay has to cover the whole weekend (or something like that).

 

[vermilye]

Not all that weird - many NY State Parks require a minimum 2 day stay even during weekdays.

 

[dosby]

I think flexibility leads to the whole summer getting booked at once.
I was booking Pacific Rim - Green Point in BC recently (nat park), and all sites were gone within a minute or so. Not for a specific date, for the whole summer!

For national parks, full refund up to 3 days prior, Provincial up to 7 days. At least, provincial ones are on a rolling window.

Rathtrevor Beach (provincial park), for example, if you want to stay Fri-Sun starting Aug 1, you need to also book Sun-Mon b/c of a BC state holiday
We don't have that in WA. But much harsher cancellation fees for advance booking.

US National parks are also very flexible, and ppl take advantage of that with booking 10-14 day windows and cancelling unneeded days at will.

 

[kavm]

I think a lot of the issue is fixed if two simple conditions are added to recreation.gov-

1. If someone wants to change the start date of their booking, it should require a cancellation followed by a new reservation from scratch.
2. But, of course, they could cancel and be sure that there is an open site due to their cancellation. So, there needs to be a cooling off (1 day?) before one can rebook the same day and site they held a reservation to.

Of course, someone could still collude, say with their partner, to get that site but it gets a tad more complicated. Cancellation will mean that others who are waiting for an opening get a shot at getting the site.

 

[GregWCIL]

I was recently looking to book a high-demand campground - Colter Bay RV Park in Grand Teton. I did my homework and determined that the campsites for the dates I wanted open up on, in my case, Feb 4. I was logged in on time and checked availability just as the window opened. Not a single site was open for the date for which the booking window just opened!

Next day, I set an alert for any cancellations for my dates. 2 days later I got the alert and was able to book what I was looking for.

Learning: I believe what’s going on is as follows:

• The bookings starting a date open exactly 6 months in advance. But, those starting their reservations on an earlier date can book a longer stay (up to 14 days).
• So, it seems folks (artificially) book a longer stay before the window for their actual desired stay opens.
• Once the window has opened for the full duration of their desired stay, they just modify the reservation to fit their need and cancel the other days.

Perhaps everyone but us already knows this but it was a new learning for me. Thought I’d share with others.

PS: The above is my guess at what is happening. If I have it wrong, please feel free to correct me. If there are similar tricks elsewhere, please share. I know sharing here makes the trick less effective as more get in on the act - but it also levels the playing field.

I have never overbooked but I have had friends logged on at the approprriat second and we each tried for a different night of our stay. Note that if someone else books it in their account, you cannot transfer the reservation. They have to check on the box - different primary reservation holder - and list your name.
Campgrounds such as Yosemite open an entire month at a time and they all book within a few seconds. Booking one night at a time increases your odds.