Shunt Location in a 21NE

[rubicon327]

Hmmm, looking at your install I see your fuse was originally on the positive side and you kept it there. Is that something I should look to change as well?

Yes. It was an error for Escape to put it on the negative side. Your fuse should be moved to the positive side.

 

[Ron in BC]

I knew that comment was coming!

Me too. :whistling:

Ron

 

[Greg A]

TDF, has helped me tremendously with his posts to recognize wiring issues and begin cleaning them up. I just completed installing the Blue Sea cutoff switch and now my wiring and crimps look more like his. I won’t go into what existed there previously, but in defense it has worked for 5.5 years.
I’m about to tackle the electrical box where they bring in all connections under DS bench, but I’m kinda afraid to open it. Thinking of moving to bus bars rather then whatever is in there.
Still have so much to learn in this area and greatly appreciate all the posters and photos of electrical stuff.

 

[OpsPops]

Prior to our 21NE, I haunted this forum and have learned quite a bit about our trailers. Like many, I've done some minor mods (if only ETI would add a couple of inches to their 12v terminal points), and I'm planning more mods over the winter.

Since we have a 21NE, I'm now wondering if adding a "shunt" is something I should include on our rig. No doubt a value added modification, I'd like to know what that value actually is...please. Much of this stuff is still new to me.

I'm considering replacing the flooded batteries with 2 x 12v AGMs and using the 6v batteries for a solar generator build for my shed. So adding a "shunt" would be part and parcel of replacing the flooded with the AGMs.

 

[RangerMan]

I will be blunt about this - those are the worst crimp connections I have ever seen. Please consider replacing that mess with correctly crimped cables. They will fail in no time at all.

Please take a look at what correctly crimped connections should look like.

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8/installed-2-0-battery-cables-19164.html

Couldn't agree more on the crimps. I have replaced all connections I could get to to ensure I had proper connector and crimps on same.

New 7 pin junction box, New battery cables 2/0, New connectors for battery/power center cables. Seperated some AC/DC runs also. Those were difficult to untangle. Don't think I would do it again.

 

[tdf-texas]

Hmmm, looking at your install I see your fuse was originally on the positive side and you kept it there. Is that something I should look to change as well?

Yes. The fuse should be on the positive battery lead, in a fuse holder, and as close to the battery terminal as possible.

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

yeesh, didn't realize that was a fuse, was thinking that was the shunt... I've always fused the plus side loads. but a ground fuse make sense, you disconnect the negative cable first when you want to 'safe' the electrics before working on the car, so the neg fuse acts the same, and only melts on a direct primary wire short. 300A is like a 10 gauge short.

 

[John in Santa Cruz]

Yes. The fuse should be on the positive battery lead, in a fuse holder, and as close to the battery terminal as possible.

yeah, all the loads should have their + wires fused suitably... this fuse is for when the battery main cable is shorted to the chassis, after a structural failure..

 

[tacchino]

that second thinner black wire (not the clip lead) going out the bottom left of your pictures, is that solar or something?

Did some more digging around yesterday trying to trace wires and found some answers. The black lead coming out bottom runs out the bottom of the box and is then terminated on the frame.

I will be blunt about this - those are the worst crimp connections I have ever seen. Please consider replacing that mess with correctly crimped cables. They will fail in no time at all.

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8/installed-2-0-battery-cables-19164.html

I found a crimp connection that was even worse. The positive wire running out from the solar controller is connected to what I guess is a fuse along with several other positive wires. The ring connector was turned at 90 degrees and pulled so tight that it actually broke the wire and is just barely still connected.

I'm confused about what I found for the Zamp connector. We have two panels up top and the Zamp connector on the side for a ground array. What I found was that the wires for the Zamp were run in and wire nutted together with the outbound wires going from the charge controller to the batteries. I thought the Zamp wires were going to go into the controller so that that their contribution was also managed by the controller. Did I get that backwards?

 

[tacchino]

Prior to our 21NE, I haunted this forum and have learned quite a bit about our trailers. Like many, I've done some minor mods (if only ETI would add a couple of inches to their 12v terminal points), and I'm planning more mods over the winter.

Since we have a 21NE, I'm now wondering if adding a "shunt" is something I should include on our rig. No doubt a value added modification, I'd like to know what that value actually is...please. Much of this stuff is still new to me.

I'm considering replacing the flooded batteries with 2 x 12v AGMs and using the 6v batteries for a solar generator build for my shed. So adding a "shunt" would be part and parcel of replacing the flooded with the AGMs.

A shunt allows you to monitor amps flowing in and out of the batteries so that you have an accurate measure of how much capacity you have in your batteries.

 

[rubicon327]

A shunt allows you to monitor amps flowing in and out of the batteries so that you have an accurate measure of how much capacity you have in your batteries.

...and only required as part of a battery monitoring system like the Victron BMV-712, etc.

 

[vermilye]

Did some more digging around yesterday trying to trace wires and found some answers. The black lead coming out bottom runs out the bottom of the box and is then terminated on the frame.



I found a crimp connection that was even worse. The positive wire running out from the solar controller is connected to what I guess is a fuse along with several other positive wires. The ring connector was turned at 90 degrees and pulled so tight that it actually broke the wire and is just barely still connected.

I'm confused about what I found for the Zamp connector. We have two panels up top and the Zamp connector on the side for a ground array. What I found was that the wires for the Zamp were run in and wire nutted together with the outbound wires going from the charge controller to the batteries. I thought the Zamp wires were going to go into the controller so that that their contribution was also managed by the controller. Did I get that backwards?

Wired this way assumes that you have a portable panel with an on panel controller. If you wish to bypass the panel's controller, the connection should go to the input of the GoPower controller. Either will work, although I'd prefer using the GoPower controller (as long as the total amperage is under the GoPower rating) so you get a better idea of the amount of solar collected. In any case I'd check the polarity of the ZAMP connector since ZAMP tends to wire it opposite the rest of the industry. Not sure what Escape does, but your portable panel could be either, depending on who made it.

 

[vermilye]

Also, just a reminder for those with batteries outside the trailer - Victron now makes a "Smart Shunt" that does not come with a meter. The advantage is you don't need to run a wire between the shunt & meter. The disadvantage is you need to use a smart phone to read & configure it.

 

[tacchino]

Wired this way assumes that you have a portable panel with an on panel controller. If you wish to bypass the panel's controller, the connection should go to the input of the GoPower controller. Either will work, although I'd prefer using the GoPower controller (as long as the total amperage is under the GoPower rating) so you get a better idea of the amount of solar collected. In any case I'd check the polarity of the ZAMP connector since ZAMP tends to wire it opposite the rest of the industry. Not sure what Escape does, but your portable panel could be either, depending on who made it.

Yeah, that's the way I understood it as well. I don't have any portable panels yet but my build sheet specified that the Zamp would be wired into the "regulator" and when I questioned what that meant Joldie confirmed that by "regulator" they meant the solar controller

 

[tdf-texas]

Yeah, that's the way I understood it as well. I don't have any portable panels yet but my build sheet specified that the Zamp would be wired into the "regulator" and when I questioned what that meant Joldie confirmed that by "regulator" they meant the solar controller

Per your build sheet, Escape wired your SAE solar port wrong. The solar port should have been paralleled with the roof solar panels and connected to the in terminals on the solar controller.

Be sure to take Jon Vermilye's advise about checking the wiring polarity on the port - Escape has been using Zamp ports that have the wiring polarity flipped from the rest of the industry. The red on a Zamp is negative and the black is positive.

If it was my trailer, I would be checking all the wiring. It looks like the guy that wired yours was having a very bad day.

 

[rubicon327]

Per your build sheet, Escape wired your SAE solar port wrong. The solar port should have been paralleled with the roof solar panels and connected to the in terminals on the solar controller.

Just for my own edification...this wiring would be correct (polarity aside) IF an owner wanted to use a portable panel with its own controller AND the wiring that Escape tied into is sized to handle the maximum amperage from the onboard panels and portable?

If an owner wanted to use a panel with it's own controller I guess I'm surprised that Escape wouldn't just go right to the battery terminals from the Zamp port (especially since the amperage specs on individual owner portable panels are beyond their control). If they typically do land right on the batteries the wiring on tacchino's trailer wasn't only wrong it was randomly executed.

 

[tacchino]

Per your build sheet, Escape wired your SAE solar port wrong. The solar port should have been paralleled with the roof solar panels and connected to the in terminals on the solar controller.

Be sure to take Jon Vermilye's advise about checking the wiring polarity on the port - Escape has been using Zamp ports that have the wiring polarity flipped from the rest of the industry. The red on a Zamp is negative and the black is positive.

If it was my trailer, I would be checking all the wiring. It looks like the guy that wired yours was having a very bad day.

Since I also found that they didn't put a breaker in between the panels and the controller I suppose that will be a good way to tie the positive size of the Zamp in with panel wire.

For checking polarity, would I need a panel in order to do that or is there some other way?

 

[vermilye]

Just for my own edification...this wiring would be correct (polarity aside) IF an owner wanted to use a portable panel with its own controller AND the wiring that Escape tied into is sized to handle the maximum amperage from the onboard panels and portable?

If an owner wanted to use a panel with it's own controller I guess I'm surprised that Escape wouldn't just go right to the battery terminals from the Zamp port (especially since the amperage specs on individual owner portable panels are beyond their control). If they typically do land right on the batteries the wiring on tacchino's trailer wasn't only wrong it was randomly executed.

The simple answer is yes. As to running directly to the battery (again, with the trailer owner using a panel(s) with an on board controller), wiring directly to the battery is best, however, depending on the location of the ZAMP connector & batteries, it might require an additional hole in the trailer, additional fuse or circuit breaker, etc.

As to not knowing the portable panel size, the typical limit of an SAE connector is 15 amps. As long as the wire size is large enough for that plus the rooftop panels, it would not be a problem current wise. Again, I'd prefer going to the batteries.

 

[vermilye]

Since I also found that they didn't put a breaker in between the panels and the controller I suppose that will be a good way to tie the positive size of the Zamp in with panel wire.

For checking polarity, would I need a panel in order to do that or is there some other way?

Yes, you would need the portable panel you choose since they are wired differently by the different manufacturers.